BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

jacee · September 17, 2014

You are certifiable!

You are reported.

.

sharkman · September 17, 2014

The government felt the heat. The BCTF bargained in good faith; the government did not. The public supported teachers, which must really burn PCT. And I herad the teachers will be getting a bonus which they deserve for being put through so much stress. Thanks to the BCTF kids and their families win.

This is how it appeared after round one with Vince Ready. Iker threw 125 million on the table during those negotiations, in the hope of jump starting things. The government negotiator, Cameron, made absolutely no counter move, and then when Ready walked out in frustration, said some nonsense about the BCTF misunderstanding him.

From that point on it became plain that the government was not willing to negotiate. They postured, they threatened, and time dragged on. Now it becomes clear that they were simply doing what they've done before. Wait until savings gained from teachers' lost wages can fund things, and then suddenly the log jam breaks. E80 was probably nothing more than a roadblock that they would remove when they decided to start negotiating. Everything else was playacting and stringing along the public and the media.

They could have made this deal in July, but they wanted to extract wages from the teachers. NW980 reported that the amount of money saved from salaries amounts to 165 million.

And when the deal is done, who jumps in front of the cameras but Christy Clark, who'd been mostly invisible up to this point! What a glory hog, she really embarrassed herself. Politicians, I guess they really can't help themselves.

Edited September 17, 2014 by sharkman

Hal 9000 · September 17, 2014

This is how it appeared after round one with Vince Ready. Iker threw 125 million on the table during those negotiations, in the hope of jump starting things. The government negotiator, Cameron, made absolutely no counter move, and then when Ready walked out in frustration, said some nonsense about the BCTF misunderstanding him.

From that point on it became plain that the government was not willing to negotiate. They postured, they threatened, and time dragged on. Now it becomes clear that they were simply doing what they've done before. Wait until savings gained from teachers' lost wages can fund things, and then suddenly the log jam breaks. E80 was probably nothing more than a roadblock that they would remove when they decided to start negotiating. Everything else was playacting and stringing along the public and the media.

They could have made this deal in July, but they wanted to extract wages from the teachers. NW980 reported that the amount of money saved from salaries amounts to 165 million.

And when the deal is done, who jumps in front of the cameras but Christy Clark, who'd been mostly invisible up to this point! What a glory hog, she really embarrassed herself. Politicians, I guess they really can't help themselves.

If your wife's really a teacher, i'm not surprised that you're disappointed.

Pct2017 · September 17, 2014

So that is why an employer does not play roulette in the form of binding arbitration. Well played Mr Fassbender and Mr Cameron, well played.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Pct2017

Wilber · September 17, 2014

Christy always shows for the good news photo ops but doesn't stick around for the tough slogging. Three days after the legislature sits in October, she takes off for India. This party's contempt for the democratic process hasn't changed since the Campbell days.

socialist · September 17, 2014

So that is why an employer does not play roulette in the form of binding arbitration. Well played Mr Fassbender and Mr Cameron, well played.

Well played? Are you delusional. They failed miserably. The citizenry is ticked off at the government and will be keeping a very close eye on public education from now on. No more letting the government off the hook for underfunding BC classrooms.

The fight is far from over.

http://www.momparadigm.com/2014/09/eyes-wide-open-education-crisis-bc-far/

Hal 9000 · September 17, 2014

Christy always shows for the good news photo ops but doesn't stick around for the tough slogging. Three days after the legislature sits in October, she takes off for India. This party's contempt for the democratic process hasn't changed since the Campbell days.

What could be more democratic than a negotiated settlement? WoW, you people are tough to please.

BTW - It was appropriate for Christy to have a press conference on the settlement.

Wilber · September 17, 2014

What could be more democratic than a negotiated settlement? WoW, you people are tough to please.

BTW - It was appropriate for Christy to have a press conference on the settlement.

Not talking about the settlement in particular, just the fact she is never around unless she can control the situation. God forbid she should ever have to answer a question in the house. Time to get out of town.

Hal 9000 · September 17, 2014

Not talking about the settlement in particular, just the fact she is never around unless she can control the situation. God forbid she should ever have to answer a question in the house. Time to get out of town.

She did as every other premier would do, she let the Minister of Education and his team negotiate the deal. If she was involved, you'd be calling her a micromanager. Once everyone settles down, it will be clear that the deal is good for everybody - taxpayers included.

I honestly don't know what your gripe is.

Wilber · September 17, 2014

She did as every other premier would do, she let the Minister of Education and his team negotiate the deal. If she was involved, you'd be calling her a micromanager. Once everyone settles down, it will be clear that the deal is good for everybody - taxpayers included.

I honestly don't know what your gripe is.

I'm glad there is a settlement, I just don't have much respect for the way Clark operates.

Pct2017 · September 17, 2014

Let's have a look at how all of the various groups involved did at the end of the day:

GOVERMENT - They did OK. First, they did things differently than before. They stood their ground on behalf of the taxpayers of the province. They held the teachers wage increase to an acceptable level which will not trigger problems with the other PSU's. They did not have to pay out the $1200 bonus which was on the table in June. They got all existing grievances extinguished for $108 million, which is less than what they saved in salaries in June. They did give up $480 million over five years to address class composition.

BCTF - they did alright, but only alright. They did get the $480 million for class composition, but $80 million of that is dedicated to CUPE workers. So $400 million over five years at a loaded cost of about $100k per teacher works out to about 600 new members. A small amount of this gain will be lost to the migration of students to private schools during the strike. Their handling of the strike, strike pay and the negotiations should have the membership asking a lot of questions, but that script has yet to be written. They appeared dazed and confused by the government strategy of saying no. They did gain the $108 million, but had to give up all previously lodged grievances. In fairness, this money should go to the teachers, but....

STUDENTS - minimal damage at the end if the day. The last two weeks in June is useless play time, so no impact there. Government exams were written and marked. First week or two in September is generally pretty laid back, so again limited harm. And depending on how pouty the teachers are when they go back, whatever time was lost can be made up with increased class time intensity. And any kid in grade 8 or above will never face another strike by their teachers.

PARENTS - again, minimal damage as the $40/day for younger students offset child care costs.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS - big winners. Enrolment up and not likely to ever reverse this trend.

TEACHERS - this was the group that lost big time. Financially, they lost five and a half weeks salary for absolutely no return, unless you figure the quarter of one percent over six years as a victory. And, quite frankly, they consolidated their reputations as whiny, greedy non- professions for a great many of us. They will increase their ranks by about 600 as stated above, but that works out to about 10 per school district which will do little to create less work for most teachers. Another way of looking at it is one extra teacher for every 830 kids or so. Will they get any of the $108 million is up to their union.

Am very happy that this sorry saga is over, and for our family it means that we will never have a teacher strike that affects us ever again as both kids will be long gone in five years.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Pct2017

dre · September 17, 2014

You don't seem to understand the case. The teachers obviously have the "right" to negotiate whatever they want

No, the court case is about the government arbitrarily removing negotiated clauses regarding class size and composition from the contract. The courts ordered that those clauses be retroactively enforced, and that caps on class size be re-implemented to 2002 levels. THAT is the order that was stayed. So I was curious to know if this agreement put those issues to bed, and it does not. If the BCTF wins again in court not only will the government be on the hook for damages they will have to reimplement the class size caps (this would cost about 16 million per year + damages).

And its not about teachers having the right to negotiate what they want. Its about the government tearing up parts of the contract that had previously been negotiated, and that the government itself had signed.

Edited September 17, 2014 by dre

TimG · September 17, 2014

No, the court case is about the government arbitrarily removing negotiated clauses regarding class size and composition from the contract. The courts ordered that those clauses be retroactively enforced, and that caps on class size be re-implemented to 2002 levels.

Context is everything. If you actually read the judgement you would see that the court believed the BC government acted in bad faith by passing a law that effectively negated a prior decision by the same judge. The remedy was to re-instate the provisions in order to force the government to negotiate in good faith - it was not an end in itself. Since the government has now demonstrated a willingness to negotiate in good faith those reasons no longer apply and the only issue is the question of compensation for the lost clauses for the short period between the original law and the expiry of the original contract. You are living in a fantasy world if you believe that any court should decide that once a clause gets into a union agreement it can never be removed without the approval of the union. Edited September 17, 2014 by TimG

cybercoma · September 17, 2014

And its not about teachers having the right to negotiate what they want. Its about the government tearing up parts of the contract that had previously been negotiated, and that the government itself had signed.

Governments don't have to honour contracts because they're elected. /s

overthere · September 17, 2014

So that is why an employer does not play roulette in the form of binding arbitration. Well played Mr Fassbender and Mr Cameron, well played.

Precisely

overthere · September 17, 2014

I'm glad there is a settlement, I just don't have much respect for the way Clark operates.

Yeah, it's disgraceful how she allows the Minister and a bevy of well paid professionals do the bidding of an elected government.

Wilber · September 17, 2014

Yeah, it's disgraceful how she allows the Minister and a bevy of well paid professionals do the bidding of an elected government.

Considering that when she did speak, she got stuff wrong, you may have a point. She sure likes to travel, particularly during the rare times our legislature is sitting.

overthere · September 17, 2014

Looks like she delegated the job to the right people though. Why wouldn't that fill you with respect for the elected officials and Education staff who represented the taxpayers all the way to a negotiated settlement?

No need for risky arbitration, no need to legislate them back, a negotiated settlement within fiscal guidelines. Sounds like everybody won this one.

Pct2017 · September 17, 2014

In my discussion about winners/losers in this strike, I forgot one group. The NDP. I would give them a temporary losing grade. Why? Well, they stayed absolutely silent throughout the strike with nary an NDP MLA to be seen at any teacher rally. But, then as the end of the strike neared, they finally broke their silence. And what hill was so important for them to die on? Well, they argued in favour of binding arbitration for the teachers salary and benefits demands. In true NDP fashion, they shouted at the top of their lungs that fiscal management of the public purse should be turned over to an unelected, unaccountable third body. Basically, put the whole pot on red and let it ride. This is why NDP governments tend to hard to find and also tend to be of a very short duration when they are elected.

Now, I said they were getting a temporary losing grade. This is because the next election is a couple of lifetimes away and all of this will be long forgotten by the electorate.

WestCoastRunner · September 18, 2014

Looks like she delegated the job to the right people though. Why wouldn't that fill you with respect for the elected officials and Education staff who represented the taxpayers all the way to a negotiated settlement?

No need for risky arbitration, no need to legislate them back, a negotiated settlement within fiscal guidelines. Sounds like everybody won this one.

I was a Christy Clark fan but no longer. This was a fiasco and the end result is that there is still no resolution to class size and class composition.

Hal 9000 · September 18, 2014

I was a Christy Clark fan but no longer. This was a fiasco and the end result is that there is still no resolution to class size and class composition.

Why aren't you angry at a union that strikes for 3 weeks to sign a deal that probably needed no strike at all.

BTW - Just as the Trudeau thread, I can't believe that you would vote anything other than NDP.

WestCoastRunner · September 18, 2014

Why aren't you angry at a union that strikes for 3 weeks to sign a deal that probably needed no strike at all.

BTW - Just as the Trudeau thread, I can't believe that you would vote anything other than NDP.

I am upset that the union caved without resolving the class size and composition. At the very least, they should encourage further discussions but perhaps that will happen even while they are back in the classrooms. I vote for the best candidate that represents my riding. Mostly, it ends up being a liberal. Why would I vote NDP?

Hal 9000 · September 18, 2014

I am upset that the union caved without resolving the class size and composition. At the very least, they should encourage further discussions but perhaps that will happen even while they are back in the classrooms. I vote for the best candidate that represents my riding. Mostly, it ends up being a liberal. Why would I vote NDP?

Class sizes are not really an issue, class composition is a CUPE matter (and I believe the gov't promised $80m for them). To reduce class size by even one child per would cost billions on that deal. The BCTF wants more members and they'll get more (every year) - not as many as they want, but more.

WestCoastRunner · September 18, 2014

Class sizes are not really an issue, class composition is a CUPE matter (and I believe the gov't promised $80m for them). To reduce class size by even one child per would cost billions on that deal. The BCTF wants more members and they'll get more (every year) - not as many as they want, but more.

80m is only 5m more. not much.

sharkman · September 18, 2014

Why aren't you angry at a union that strikes for 3 weeks to sign a deal that probably needed no strike at all.

BTW - Just as the Trudeau thread, I can't believe that you would vote anything other than NDP.

Nonsense, you haven't been paying attention it was over 3 months. The government kept them out, kept the bargaining process to a standstill until they had saved enough money from teachers' salaries(165 million). Once they reached their magic number, they pulled E80 off the table and started negotiating.