BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[Pct2017]

It does have to be legislation. The BCTF is the bargaining agent for the province's teachers, the government can't abitrarily change that without legislation. Even then, the court battles would go on for years with no guaranty the government would win. And if they lost, their present legal problems would be trivial in comparison.

So, if they are going to legislate, do it. Don't let a half million kids twist in the wind for another three weeks.

Wilber, you are so wrong, you should run for mayor of Wrongsville. The government holds a mighty big stick in all of this and Byran is correct. There very well could be replacement teachers in our schools in very quick order. I would not have thought so until I read about the Ikea strike in Richmond. There has to be some provision in the labour code which allows for replacement workers. I have no idea what it is, but google the Ikea strike and you will see what I mean. So, think about it. Replacement teachers are able to teach our kids while the BCTF teachers who choose to stay with that union stay outside on strike for the rest of their lives. Our kids get the education that the current teachers are denying them, the BCTF eventually goes broke and disappears, the court case dies with the BCTF and eventually the replacement teachers join an existing union like CUPE.

I am not saying this will happen, but I would not have thought it was possible in the case of the Teamsters at Ikea for it to happen either.

[Pct2017]

This fellow wrote a very compelling op-ed piece for the Victoria Times Colonist. Very thoughtful and seemingly full of good ideas. I would endorse him to co-mediate along with Vince Ready.

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-education-system-needs-changes-to-thrive-1.1349934

[sharkman]

Until the government stops believing their own BS numbers and the fairytale that legislation will make it all better, it doesn't matter who's in the room.

[Wilber]

Wilber, you are so wrong, you should run for mayor of Wrongsville. The government holds a mighty big stick in all of this and Byran is correct. There very well could be replacement teachers in our schools in very quick order. I would not have thought so until I read about the Ikea strike in Richmond. There has to be some provision in the labour code which allows for replacement workers. I have no idea what it is, but google the Ikea strike and you will see what I mean. So, think about it. Replacement teachers are able to teach our kids while the BCTF teachers who choose to stay with that union stay outside on strike for the rest of their lives. Our kids get the education that the current teachers are denying them, the BCTF eventually goes broke and disappears, the court case dies with the BCTF and eventually the replacement teachers join an existing union like CUPE.

I am not saying this will happen, but I would not have thought it was possible in the case of the Teamsters at Ikea for it to happen either.

Won't happen.

[Pct2017]

Won't happen.

Probably won't happen.

[Wilber]

Probably won't happen.

Won't happen. This isn't Ikea.

I do think there needs to be a change in the relationship between government and its unions though. The existing one isn't acceptable so they both better start putting some thought into it. Neither has been able to convince the public they are the good guys, so hopefully the present mess will give them an incentive. Probably wishful thinking but one can always hope.

[Bob Macadoo]

This fellow wrote a very compelling op-ed piece for the Victoria Times Colonist. Very thoughtful and seemingly full of good ideas. I would endorse him to co-mediate along with Vince Ready.

I read the column. Some interesting points but his undercurrent of union negativity came through. In addition his submission that teachers are behind the times when he himself is probably more out of touch than him. I didn't actually see he was a public educator in BC. Was he? His solution though is dump your union, submit to the gov'ts will and consider yourself fortunate. Hey that's your view.....and you endorse him? Imagine that.

[cybercoma]

I just heard now on the news that the government is now considering legislating the teachers back to work! These guys are so predictable it's funny. A week ago they flatly claimed it wasn't on the table, but since they've been outmaneuvered by the BCTF which has 60% of the public agreeing with binding legislation, suddenly it's back on the table.

Binding arbitration. Not binding legislation. Maybe you just typed the wrong word, but there's a pretty big difference there.

Edited September 12, 2014 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

They ARE victims of an oppressive regime. Have you ever read Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paulo Freire. Never mind, you probably haven;t heard of Paulo Freire.

It was fun watching the libs get played like a fiddle by the BCTF. Hopefully it shuts PCT up too.

A democratically elected government that is responsible to the legislature for expenditures is hardly a "regime."

[sharkman]

Binding arbitration. Not binding legislation. Maybe you just typed the wrong word, but there's a pretty big difference there.

You're right, I meant binding arbitration, good catch.

[Pct2017]

So, put yourself in the shoes of Jim Iker for a minute. The employer has telegraphed the message that your members will be legislated back to work at the beginning of October. Now, do you think they are going to give you:

A. Everything you have asked for in wages and benefits or

B. Everything that they have previously offered you in wages and benefits.

OK, now also consider that your members have just voted very overwhelmingly that their singular concern is getting something, anything in the way of an increase to their wages and benefits and have said that class size and composition can wait for the court rulings.

Now, with these facts in mind, do you:

A. Wait until you are legislated back to work in October, causing a further three week disruption to the students that you purport to care so much about, or

B. Sign now for the same wages and benefits that you are going to be forced to take in three weeks, thus allowing students back into class.

Man oh man, poor old Jim is really going to have to think hard on this one to come up with the right answer.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Pct2017

[TimG]

B. Sign now for the same wages and benefits that you are going to be forced to take in three weeks, thus allowing students back into class.

Actually, if he signed a deal this week the teachers would probably get a signing bonus on top of the additional 3 weeks of pay. So there is more than altruism to motivate him.

But that is not going to happen because the BCTF is not driven by logic or rationality - it is driven by egos and outdated union thinking. So Jim Iker will be more than happy to cash his paycheck while 40,000 teachers have to another 3 weeks without a paycheck because Iker wants to "stick it to the man" rather than sign a deal he is going to have to accept anyways.

Edited September 13, 2014 by TimG

[Wilber]

So, put yourself in the shoes of Jim Iker for a minute. The employer has telegraphed the message that your members will be legislated back to work at the beginning of October. Now, do you think they are going to give you:

A. Everything you have asked for in wages and benefits or

B. Everything that they have previously offered you in wages and benefits.

OK, now also consider that your members have just voted very overwhelmingly that their singular concern is getting something, anything in the way of an increase to their wages and benefits and have said that class size and composition can wait for the court rulings.

Now, with these facts in mind, do you:

A. Wait until you are legislated back to work in October, causing a further three week disruption to the students that you purport to care so much about, or8

B. Sign now for the same wages and benefits that you are going to be forced to take in three weeks, thus allowing students back into class.

Man oh man, poor old Jim is really going to have to think hard on this one to come up with the right answer.

You forgot C: That the public will stand for the kids to be out till the middle of October if the govt is planning to legislate them back anyway.

[Hal 9000]

You forgot C: That the public will stand for the kids to be out till the middle of October if the govt is planning to legislate them back anyway.

Parental support will start to wane big time if this goes into October,

[Wilber]

Parental support will start to wane big time if this goes into October,

Support for whom is the question. They will want to know what the govt is waiting for.

[Pct2017]

You forgot C: That the public will stand for the kids to be out till the middle of October if the govt is planning to legislate them back anyway.

I have read your post several times, and I cannot for the life of me figure out what you are saying. Is it a good thing for the teachers and the students to be out of school? Or are you saying that it is logical to keep the students out of school in order to get the exact same contract as you could have now. And, as I have said many, many times, who cares what the public thinks. The next election if a couple of lifespans away. And the BCTF could not give a rats ass about what the public thinks. So what does public sentiment have to do with this?

[Wilber]

So you are saying this government doesn't give a rats ass about what the public thinks.

[socialist]

I have read your post several times, and I cannot for the life of me figure out what you are saying. Is it a good thing for the teachers and the students to be out of school? Or are you saying that it is logical to keep the students out of school in order to get the exact same contract as you could have now. And, as I have said many, many times, who cares what the public thinks. The next election if a couple of lifespans away. And the BCTF could not give a rats ass about what the public thinks. So what does public sentiment have to do with this?

Jim Iker ha stood strong and shown true leadership.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Iker+keeps+cool+under+fire/10200034/story.html

[Shady]

The BC Teachers Union continues to hold the entire province hostage. At some point, they really need to be stopped.

[Pct2017]

Jim Iker ha stood strong and shown true leadership.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Iker+keeps+cool+under+fire/10200034/story.html

Man, he looks like he has aged about ten years this summer. Maybe he is better suited to tending six year olds than what he is doing now.

[Pct2017]

So you are saying this government doesn't give a rats ass about what the public thinks.

Oddly enough, yes I am saying just that. There are two reasons for this. First, reigning in the single most repugnant union in the province is well worth some criticism, particularly when the most vocal of critics were never going to vote Liberal anyway. I mean, did you or Mrs Wilber really vote Liberal last May?

But secondly, and more importantly, the Liberals will never face the BCTF in an election. They will face the NDP, and right now I could not even tell you their leaders name. How many NDP MLAs are you seeing at the whiny teachers rallies etc. No, the NDP will stay as far away from the teachers as they can, which nullifies any public opinion in 2017.

[Wilber]

Oddly enough, yes I am saying just that. There are two reasons for this. First, reigning in the single most repugnant union in the province is well worth some criticism, particularly when the most vocal of critics were never going to vote Liberal anyway. I mean, did you or Mrs Wilber really vote Liberal last May?

But secondly, and more importantly, the Liberals will never face the BCTF in an election. They will face the NDP, and right now I could not even tell you their leaders name. How many NDP MLAs are you seeing at the whiny teachers rallies etc. No, the NDP will stay as far away from the teachers as they can, which nullifies any public opinion in 2017.

They will face the parents of the kids who aren't in school in the next election and they will also face the grade 11 and 12 students who are now being kept out of school. Would I not vote Liberal? Damn right.

The Liberals didn't win the last election, the NDP threw it away.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Wilber

[Bob Macadoo]

So, put yourself in the shoes of Jim Iker for a minute. The employer has telegraphed the message that your members will be legislated back to work at the beginning of October. Now, do you think they are going to give you:

B. Sign now for the same wages and benefits that you are going to be forced to take in three weeks, thus allowing students back into class.

Man oh man, poor old Jim is really going to have to think hard on this one to come up with the right answer.

You forgot to add to B. that they would also be affecting their court case. Curious you overlooked that what? In addition I didn't read anywhere about a membership vote that said they were desperate to get anything....just the one about arbitration.....were you taking straw polls at the vote?

So what you are saying the teachers should accept now an offer that will be there in Oct when legislated rather than further increase their support from parental public as I'm sure you "taxpayers" weren't going to vote NDP anyway. Hmmm I wonder what they'd do? I say again I hope you're not a lawyer as your negotiation comprehension skills are atrocious.

PS. The ON Liberals thought that legislating teachers would be a cinch too. Not too successful, should learn from others mistakes lest you make worse ones yourself.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Bob Macadoo

[sharkman]

So you are saying this government doesn't give a rats ass about what the public thinks.

The old maxim is still true, power corrupts. They've been in power over a decade, and with the last election now think they're bullet proof. That's why they don't care what the public thinks. They obviously don't care what the teachers think, you know, the people who actually do the educating and know a thing or two about it. They sure don't care what the courts think, that's why they frivolously spend on appeal after appeal, hoping to manipulate the system.

People across the province are starting to realize there is a problem. It's been going on for several years now. The HST fiasco was a prime example. It actually could have been a good move, but they added tax hikes to things like new houses, restaurant meals, etc, that made it a real loser, after lying about bringing it in! Talk about arrogance. Anyone could see that it was a recipe for disaster except the people corrupted by power.

So the problem with the current labor dispute is the Government believes it's own bull shit. You can't negotiate with that. I'd be really surprised if anything comes out of the talks currently underway, just like nothing came of it when Vince Ready himself was involved.

[Wilber]

I believe Ready is involved in the present talks but it is just he, Iker and Cameron, not the full committees.