Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) WHOA JT! Now you got everyone's attention. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/01/29/justin_trudeau_boots_all_senators_from_liberal_caucus.htm OTTAWA Justin Trudeau is sweeping Liberal senators out of his party's caucus in a bid to show he's serious about cleaning up the scandal-plagued upper house. The surprise move announced today after he informed the 32 Liberal senators is aimed at reducing partisanship in the Senate and restoring its intended role as an independent chamber of sober second thought. The Liberal leader said extreme patronage and partisanship are at the root of the Senate expenses scandal, which has engulfed the red chamber for more than a year. The Senate is broken and needs to be fixed, he said. He argued that making Liberal senators independent of the party's parliamentary caucus is a first, concrete step toward reducing partisanship. And he challenged Prime Minister Stephen Harper to similarly set free the 57 Conservative senators. So I guess this means he can't whip votes in the Senate. Not that it matters because the Liberals don't have a majority. This move seems to be simply about optics and not about change. If elected prime minister, Trudeau says hed go further. Hed appoint only independent senators, using an open, transparent process, with public input, for nominating worthy candidates much the way recipients of the Order of Canada are chosen.Public input? You mean like Elections you twit!?!So under JT's system Senators get appointed but can't have any official political affiliation. That means unelected senators can overturn a law passed by the elected House and the PM can't do diddly squat about it? That's some great democracy there Lou. This is a "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Edited January 29, 2014 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 WHOA JT! Now you got everyone's attention. ... This is a "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Maybe this latest tempest will show us if JT is his own man, or whether the wise old owls that have been hanging around since 1967 will eventually talk him down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Maybe this will piss off the old guard. I'm sure these Liberal Senators who got patronage, I'm assuming, for being devoted to the party, will have something to say about this move by JT. It's easy to make moves like this when you're the 3rd party in the House. The government doesn't have this luxury as it has to consult with the Supreme Court before changing how the Senate runs. If Harper were to disown his caucus in the Senate, what will happen to his agenda? He'll have to consult with a group of Senators that have no party affiliation and answer to no one. I personally think the Senate is a waste of time. But this move by JT is purely a half-measure. Edited January 29, 2014 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 JT is hardly what I consider a man. Maybe if he stops using taxpayer money to fly himself around to speaking events he gets paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 JT is hardly what I consider a man. Maybe if he stops using taxpayer money to fly himself around to speaking events he gets paid for. Yeah but the PM spent all that money to go to Israel so they're square. LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 It's easy to make moves like this when you're the 3rd party in the House. The government doesn't have this luxury as it has to consult with the Supreme Court before changing how the Senate runs. If Harper were to disown his caucus in the Senate, what will happen to his agenda? He'll have to consult with a group of Senators that have no party affiliation and answer to no one. I personally think the Senate is a waste of time. But this move by JT is purely a half-measure. I agree with you on the fact that he has nothing to lose by making this deal (at this point anyway). With that being said, it sure would be nice to remove the partisan side out of any government so that it could operate on issues and facts rather than party color. Of course....I'm probably dreaming that this will have that result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I agree with you on the fact that he has nothing to lose by making this deal (at this point anyway). With that being said, it sure would be nice to remove the partisan side out of any government so that it could operate on issues and facts rather than party color. Of course....I'm probably dreaming that this will have that result. Politics are inherently political. In municipal politics they don't have party affiliation and it just makes it harder to figure out where a candidate might stand. Yet it certainly doesn't remove partisanship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 This is a great and promising move by JT. Though we will have to wait and see if it will lead to actual change or if it's just for optics like the electoral reform BS spewed by Harper and Chretien while in opposition. It's the right move and I can only hope it leads to something concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 This is a great and promising move by JT. Though we will have to wait and see if it will lead to actual change or if it's just for optics like the electoral reform BS spewed by Harper and Chretien while in opposition. It's the right move and I can only hope it leads to something concrete. You really think a Senate where appointments are done like the "Order of Canada" is a good idea? Why not just advocate for abolishment or an elected senate? Typical wishy-washy behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) I'd prefer an elected senate so from my perspective this is more of a concrete move than simple advocation. Words are wishy-washy. Harper, Chretien and even Layton who didn't ever have to lead proved that. Edited January 29, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Harper has been making moves to try and "reform" the Senate. But he wants to do it the proper way so it can't get challenged in court. It's just that this Senate scandal has brought the issue front and centre so JT can make hay by doing something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Making hay is what politicians do and we can judge them on what promises they keep. When in opposition Harper was in favour of proportional rep, accountability and transparency while opposing early election calls, floor crossers and senate appointments. He went against all of those statements so we can judge him on that if we wish. JT, has made a move to keep the senate separate from the caucus, which is good. Now if he happens to win an election we'll see if he does a Harper-like about face or not. Until then we can only assume it is his intention to improve senate autonomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Harper has been making moves to try and "reform" the Senate. But he wants to do it the proper way so it can't get challenged in court. I hope you enjoyed swallowing that huge load of bunk! Provide the link or keep swallowing! WWWTT Edited January 29, 2014 by WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Senate Autonomy is stupid if they aren't elected. So far JT hasn't said he advocates for an elected Senate, he just wants a consultation process. It's a complete Half-Measure. What's with Liberals and consultations? We see this for the Ontario Liberals. They hire consultants to produce reports at a high expense and usually ignore the recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Making hay is what politicians do and we can judge them on what promises they keep. How about when they get elected to sit in the house??? Don't need a majority to sit in the house. Or maybe you don't understand how the Canadian parliamentary system works? You pick which it is. But hey, lets look at Justin's history of actually trying this senate reform thing shall we http://craigscott.ndp.ca/trudeau-s-desperate-ploy-to-save-the-sinking-senate-ship Craig Scott is a constitutional lawyer and NDP MP from Toronto Danforth. He won the seat in a bi election after Layton died. I have had debates with Craig on this issue. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I hope you enjoyed swallowing that huge load of bunk! Provide the link or keep swallowing! WWWTT http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/01/harper-government-asks-supreme-court-to-rule-on-legality-of-senate-reform/ OTTAWA — The fate of Canada’s Senate is to be considered by the country’s top court, which has been asked to rule on how reforms to the upper chamber can be made – and on whether it can be abolished. The Conservative government Friday said it will send six “reference questions” to the Supreme Court of Canada, marking the first time in more than 30 years that the top court would weigh in on Senate reform. The questions submitted Friday could clear up whether reforming the Senate requires opening up the Constitution – a thorny process that involves the provinces as well as the federal government. The six questions sent to the court include asking the justices to rule on: the constitutionality of limiting Senate terms to eight, nine or 10 years, among other options; how to go about consulting the provinces on Senate reform and how to go about electing senators who are currently appointed by the prime minister; whether the federal government can repeal the minimum wealth requirements and property qualifications for senators; and how the country could go about abolishing the Senate. Wonder what's taking the court so long. Perhaps JT should have waited for the the Court to respond before doing this PR stunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Perhaps Justin got wind of the results of the upcoming Auditior General's preliminary report on all the Senators? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/01/harper-government-asks-supreme-court-to-rule-on-legality-of-senate-reform/ Wonder what's taking the court so long. Perhaps JT should have waited for the the Court to respond before doing this PR stunt. Thank you WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) First of all, harper was the 1st PM to point fingers at the senate, harper was the only PM to ask what it will take to legally reform or get rid of the senate and was the 1st to pick a elected senator and now the media is going to make justin the hero in all this. And can he legally do this? Edited January 29, 2014 by PIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 First of all, harper was the 1st PM to point fingers at the senate, harper was the only PM to ask what it will take to legally reform or get rid of the senate and was the 1st to pick a elected senator and now the media is going to make justin the hero in all this. And can he legally do this? You forgot one PIK Harper was also the best at using the senate to raise political contributions for the conservative party!!!! Harper also used the biggest whip on the senate!!! Oh sorry, that's two. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 You forgot one PIK Harper was also the best at using the senate to raise political contributions for the conservative party!!!! Harper also used the biggest whip on the senate!!! Oh sorry, that's two. WWWTT Good for him,but it does not take away the fact that changing the senate is harpers idea and the only PM to do so, and now justin with the help of the media will be the hero . Nice try . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Good for him,but it does not take away the fact that changing the senate is harpers idea and the only PM to do so, and now justin with the help of the media will be the hero . Nice try . Ya actually the NDP have been talking about abolishing the senate decades ago, not a new thing. But ya you're right about one thing. Senate change is new for a conservative/liberal! Especially now that the NDP have ripped Harper apart over Duffly and Wallin! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Good for him,but it does not take away the fact that changing the senate is harpers idea and the only PM to do so, and now justin with the help of the media will be the hero . Nice try . Harper stacked the senate to an unprecedented degree. He also used the senate to kill a bill passed by the democratically elected house, without a debate. The man is artist in hypocrisy, a true master. The man sculpts deceit better than Michelangelo shaped marble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Harper stacked the senate to an unprecedented degree. He also used the senate to kill a bill passed by the democratically elected house, without a debate. The man is artist in hypocrisy, a true master. The man sculpts deceit better than Michelangelo shaped marble. Link? And who cares if he stacked the Senate, there were vacant seats to be filled and he can't unilaterally abolish the Senate like the NDP would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Link? And who cares if he stacked the Senate, there were vacant seats to be filled and he can't unilaterally abolish the Senate like the NDP would like. I don't think that the NDP claimed that they would unilaterally abolish the senate, only work to abolishing. Big difference between trying and talking. Have any links about conservative bills in parliament that do such? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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