The truth about Israel's secret nuclear arsenal

[DogOnPorch]

what an arrogant response. he is basically saying: "haha! sure the system is hypocritical but there is nothing you can do about it! - haha!"

maybe dogonporch can show to us how he jumps up and down when iran has developed ICBM's.

Iran already has several vigorous ballistic missile programs.

[bud]

so what?

[sharkman]

what an arrogant response. he is basically saying: "haha! sure the system is hypocritical but there is nothing you can do about it! - haha!"

maybe dogonporch can show to us how he jumps up and down when iran has developed ICBM's.

And you will dance in the street when they nuke Israel. You really need to get over your hate, Buddy.

[DogOnPorch]

so what?

bud: maybe dogonporch can show to us how he jumps up and down when iran has developed ICBM's.

As I pointed out, Iran ALREADY has missiles.

[bud]

And you will dance in the street when they nuke Israel. You really need to get over your hate, Buddy.

that's an ignorant comment. i don't see an israeli's life to be any different than a palestinian's or an iranian's or a canadian's or any other person in the world. a child is a child. a woman is a woman. a man is a man. and a life is a life.

besides, israel would never be nuked. only those who buy the fear that's being sold to them, in order to get their consent to commit atrocities would think so.

the only thing israelis should fear is themselves and their leaders and the direction they're taking themselves. a hyper racist, ultra-nationalist country which has isolated itself with their arrogance and disregard for human rights.

not too long ago, AIPAC, which represent everything that is wrong with israel, had unchallenged influence and power in u.s. foreign policy. we're seeing a shift in that. then there is the bds movement, which has businesses in israel, especially those in the settlements, extremely worried. the zionist arrogance and their agenda is not sustainable.

[bush_cheney2004]

not too long ago, AIPAC, which represent everything that is wrong with israel,

AIPAC is an American, not Israeli lobby group.

[bud]

AIPAC is an American, not Israeli lobby group.

sure thing snookum.

[sharkman]

that's an ignorant comment. i don't see an israeli's life to be any different than a palestinian's or an iranian's or a canadian's or any other person in the world...

And yet you constantly start threads critical of all things Israel. You post nonsense that gets easily disproved yet you won't let yourself listen to any reason. The first step is realizing you have a problem but you have displayed a resilient denial that dooms you to suffering the effects of your obsessive disorder. The internet is harmful for people like you.

[BubberMiley]

The first step is realizing you have a problem but you have displayed a resilient denial that dooms you to suffering the effects of your obsessive disorder. The internet is harmful for people like you.

You really need to try to debate issues without providing armchair psychoanalysis. It's not really productive to discussion because it's not possible to do psychoanalysis over the internet. It just makes you look stupid.

[GostHacked]

You're the only claiming both.

I have not claimed both. I claim that Israel has nukes. Your twisting of my words allowed you to 'show' me supporting both sides. This is an error you constantly make. And I know it's a mistake because you are not a troll.

[Rue]

Bubber in Sharky's defence this is a long standing issue and there arestring of threads and posts that led to his comments. In isolation the one post appears a bit sharp but his point is Bud has made so many comments demonizing Israel his sudden comment that he sees all lives equal in value in the Middle East appear way out of line to the other threads and posts he has stated.

Its a comment on his posts' contents. It can get exasperating on these threads and posts on this topic. Some of us who spend time on the Middle East topic have communicated back and forth and seen a lot of threads started that do not discuss issues, just pronounce a statement negative on Israel which is close ended and does not allow for any discussion and serves to simply make an anti Israel statement.

That is what he was getting at and I am responding because Shark is far more reserved than I during these debate and his comment only echoes what many of us feel.

So for example this particular thread. It starts off as a supposed discussion on Israel's nuclear arsenal but it soon becomes just a platform to make anti Israel comments.

Me personally and I will speak for Dog on this as he and I come across as the two most pro Israeli on this forum with JBG on this threads, none of us have a problem with anyone criticizing Israeli state policies. We don't. When they become a pretext or platform to argue Israel does not have the right to exist as a Jewish nation and comments are made referencing negative characterizations of Israelis and Jews or Americans then we get annoyed.

so let me get this back on track because I know you are a say exactly what is on your mind kind of poster from reading many of your posts with Ford in the municipal area and I am sure you are having fun reading his latest escapades in BC.

Israel of course has a nuclear arsenal. That arsenal was created in the late 1960's and early 1970's during the cold war era. Now released public information shows both in 1967 and 1973 the Soviets threatened to nuke Israel and if it were not for American intervention we would have had a disaster which is why I don't like seeing the Yanks portrayed as war mongers. They clearly stopped to nuclear wars. As well Eisenhower single handedly ended the Suez Canal crisis precisely because his credibility as WW2 commander in Chief allowed him to tell Britain, France and Israel to cool it with Nasser and he would deal with the Russians manipulating Nasser.

That nuclear arsenal was created because there was a very real threat from t he Soviets. The US never wanted Israel to have nukes but they were in no position to stop them because Israel built them on their own. They did not have US assistance on the nukes. The assistance originally came from France, then their own scientists. France built their first nuclear reactor not the US.

The US has always up front made it clear it balances its two closest allies in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It couldn't be more blatant in its balancing act. It never hid it.Say what you want but the American foreign policy is out out out n the open so open it is on every friggin public domain. All you have to do is read what its oil companies are up to It doesn't exactly hide its petro needs.

Botttom line, that Israel arsenal was never created to fight Arab countries. Israel had not so secret discussions through the KIngs of Jordan and Morrocco to the Arab league as to its intentions and deliberately stated it would never comment on them so as not to scare any Arab nations.

Now we can try create all kinds of comments now that Israel is a demon nation but that is how it came about,.

[DogOnPorch]

I have not claimed both. I claim that Israel has nukes. Your twisting of my words allowed you to 'show' me supporting both sides. This is an error you constantly make. And I know it's a mistake because you are not a troll.

If you actually read the thread, I take it as a given that Israel has nuclear weapons. Has had nukes for a loooooooooonnng time. No, it doesn't like to talk about them. No, it doesn't chatter from the pulpit re: Iran's destruction using them. They aren't kept on high alert...this we do know. But, rather, in deep bunkers. The Jericho needs to be hauled to the surface...erected...target data imputed...fired off. This takes time. It's unlikely that the warheads are even kept mated to the missile...but rather added before being erected on the surface.

I also detail why MAD doesn't work for tiny Israel using its Jericho missiles and Dolphin submarines. Not reliable enough. They could all go off as planed...but they could all also have some unforeseen flaw that turns them into essentially duds. Not 'mutually assured'...the MA in MAD. This leads us to the possibility of a large, more reliable, set-place salted device to provided this ability of extracting "revenge" on the attackers. Unfortunately for us, a salted weapon does not differentiate between an attacker and you and I. It pumps radioactive isotopes...theoretically Cobalt since it's the cheapest with a long half-life...into the stratosphere for dispersal over a huge area...global if the device is large enough. We all then head for the shelters...if we have them. Unfortunately, the half-life of an isotope like Cobalt-60 is long enough that we'd never be able to leave the shelters for years...perhaps decades...without becoming a walking X-ray. Result: Life as we know it on Earth is finished. Ants take over.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq1.html#nfaq1.6

Just keep this in mind as we curb-stomp Israel for various reasons.

Edited February 1, 2014 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

So instead of those stupid replies you could have simply said that you believed Israel has nukes. Never change Dog.

[DogOnPorch]

So instead of those stupid replies you could have simply said that you believed Israel has nukes. Never change Dog.

Or you could have read the thread b4 posting.

[DogOnPorch]

Here's some rare footage...a Jericho III test launch. The rocket uses solid fuel.

[GostHacked]

Or you could have read the thread b4 posting.

So you could have saves us two pages of junk either way, but never waste an opportunity to twist what I say.

[DogOnPorch]

So you could have saves us two pages of junk either way, but never waste an opportunity to twist what I say.

Us? We were doing fine w/o you...thanks.

Meanwhile, you STILL haven't disclosed what 'meaningful dialogue' would be in regards to Israel's nukes. Can you? Or were you just 'wasting everybody's time'?

[sharkman]

Bubber in Sharky's defence this is a long standing issue and there arestring of threads and posts that led to his comments. In isolation the one post appears a bit sharp but his point is Bud has made so many comments demonizing Israel his sudden comment that he sees all lives equal in value in the Middle East appear way out of line to the other threads and posts he has stated.

Its a comment on his posts' contents. It can get exasperating on these threads and posts on this topic. Some of us who spend time on the Middle East topic have communicated back and forth and seen a lot of threads started that do not discuss issues, just pronounce a statement negative on Israel which is close ended and does not allow for any discussion and serves to simply make an anti Israel statement.

That is what he was getting at and I am responding because Shark is far more reserved than I during these debate and his comment only echoes what many of us feel.

So for example this particular thread. It starts off as a supposed discussion on Israel's nuclear arsenal but it soon becomes just a platform to make anti Israel comments...

Thanks Rue, I usually leave the anti-Israel threads alone but posters like you, Dog and jbg (among others) make the threads much more informative.

Edited February 1, 2014 by sharkman

[DogOnPorch]

Thank-you, sharkman. I do try to deal with what history actually says about an event. I distrust revisionist history as it usually* has a motive attached. Unfortunately, anti-Israelis tend to be all about rewriting history to suit their agenda. Skip this part here...include this part here. Forget that part over there...etc.

*always?

[Hudson Jones]

none of us have a problem with anyone criticizing Israeli state policies. We don't. When they become a pretext or platform to argue Israel does not have the right to exist as a Jewish nation

Who Rue? Once again, you have the opportunity to post comments that show anyone on this forum who thinks Israel does not have a right to exist.

Once again, you are seeing things that are not there. Aren't there rules on this forum for people to back up their claims? How many times are you going to accuse people of saying things without providing proof of it?

Edited February 2, 2014 by Hudson Jones

[sharkman]

Thank-you, sharkman. I do try to deal with what history actually says about an event. I distrust revisionist history as it usually* has a motive attached. Unfortunately, anti-Israelis tend to be all about rewriting history to suit their agenda. Skip this part here...include this part here. Forget that part over there...etc.

*always?

Yeah, when the first thing done regarding an issue/topic is to revise history or tweak the facts, then you know a load of BS can't be far behind.

[Hudson Jones]

i don't see an israeli's life to be any different than a palestinian's or an iranian's or a canadian's or any other person in the world. a child is a child. a woman is a woman. a man is a man. and a life is a life.

besides, israel would never be nuked. only those who buy the fear that's being sold to them, in order to get their consent to commit atrocities would think so.

the only thing israelis should fear is themselves and their leaders and the direction they're taking themselves. a hyper racist, ultra-nationalist country which has isolated itself with their arrogance and disregard for human rights.

not too long ago, AIPAC, which represent everything that is wrong with israel, had unchallenged influence and power in u.s. foreign policy. we're seeing a shift in that. then there is the bds movement, which has businesses in israel, especially those in the settlements, extremely worried. the zionist arrogance and their agenda is not sustainable.

Well stated.

Another shift, which has many hawkish ZIonists, like Alan Dershowitz worried, are the younger Jewish population living outside of Israel. They can no longer relate to Israel because the Zionist policies contradict many liberal values. The big Zionist PR machine can no longer mask and stop the flow of information. The information is more easily available for people to see the atrocities that Israel continues to commit. The young Jewish population is speaking out more and more against Israel's policies as are politicians and major media outlets.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah, when the first thing done regarding an issue/topic is to revise history or tweak the facts, then you know a load of BS can't be far behind.

When I was growing-up, the word "Zionist" was rarely, if ever, used. Israel, after all, was already a fact on the ground.

[cybercoma]

When I was growing-up, the word "Zionist" was rarely, if ever, used. Israel, after all, was already a fact on the ground.

Just to support your claim here.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=zionist&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Czionist%3B%2Cc0

[DogOnPorch]

Just to support your claim here.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=zionist&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Czionist%3B%2Cc0

I wasn't dreaming, then.