Bonam Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yes...early Soviet ICBMs had a 5km CEP...more on Polar routes. Only a few 'megaton' designs still exist in US stockpiles. It matters just as much what you have the expertise to build as what you have in your stockpile. The expertise exists in the US to build gigaton devices, if they were needed for some application. Although, this expertise could die out within a few decades if it is not put to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 It matters just as much what you have the expertise to build as what you have in your stockpile. The expertise exists in the US to build gigaton devices, if they were needed for some application. Although, this expertise could die out within a few decades if it is not put to use. Agreement. I believe Obama even cancelled the RRW1 program which will put a lot of faith in the current stuff for the foreseeable future unless the US has something else on the go. Also, it remains to be seen how enduring an enduring stockpile actually is in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 The enduring (and endearing) attributes of nuclear weapons are intensely modeled and tested virtually with supercomputers. The delivery systems are also subject to reliability issues and obsolescence. Many subsystems including the HE casings can be tested without violating treaties or voluntary moratoriums, but nothing beats good 'ole warhead testing with Mother Nature ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) I think we need to get it out of our heads that regional nuclear wars are possible...or even desirable. But yet stockpiles are maintained and even expanded on. Israel is a particularly difficult place to defend and we really don't know what it would take for them to feel threatened enough to use nuclear weapons. They were apparently assembling nuclear weapons during the dark hours of the Yom Kippur War...just in case. Israel needs to declare it's nuclear weapons stockpiles before they can even complain about Iran. Israel is not even part of the NPT where Iran is. Israel needs to man up and declare their nuclear weapons. As for MAD...it gets tossed around a lot like it's a good thing. Well, I've laid out the difficulties Israel has with the strategy. HJ's response was to attack me. A Cobalt device...if it exists as Israel's version of MAD...would irradiate the ME if small and all of the globe if large enough. I think a nuke war is more likely these days. But not because of Israel or Iran. Who knows what has been smuggled out of Pakistan. In the end it would be wise for Israel to declare the weapons and join the NPT. If not, I don't want to hear them bitching about any other country's nuclear programs or their supposed intended use. Edited January 30, 2014 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 But yet stockpiles are maintained and even expanded on. Israel needs to declare it's (sic) nuclear weapons stockpiles before they can even complain about Iran. Israel is not even part of the NPT where Iran is. Israel needs to man up and declare their nuclear weapons. I think a nuke war is more likely these days. But not because of Israel or Iran. Who knows what has been smuggled out of Pakistan. In the end it would be wise for Israel to declare the weapons and join the NPT. If not, I don't want to hear them bitching about any other country's nuclear programs or their supposed intended use. Iran and Pakistan...along with North Korea share nuclear technology as well as...according to some posters...non-existent ICBM designs. The NPT is already a joke. Canada helped them all along with its non-NPT CANDU reactors...ooops. Why would it be wise for Israel to show its hand? Who benefits? Re: 'manning-up'. Who is going to make them? Obama? What's the plan when you finally get Israel to 'man-up'? As for Israel 'bitching'...how far do folks such as yourself wish to push a country with thermonuclear weapons surrounded on all sides by its enemies? H-Bombs make a HUGE bang...just to remind you. Poke that tiger...but, don't be surprised if you get clawed. These guys said 'Never Again'. Shall we take the chance they're just fibbing? Re: stockpiles...nuclear weapons have shelf lives. It's very expensive to maintain old weapons and the concept hasn't had a chance to prove if it actually works...lucky for us. As BC mentions, super computers can only go so far when it comes to actual testing...which is why Israel can't bet on its weapons as a MAD option let alone a First Strike...too many rolls of the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Meanwhile...guess who is forging ahead treaties be damned. http://russianforces.org/blog/2013/12/more_news_about_rs-26_missile.shtml http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/11-10-2013/125881-usa_missile_defense-0/ http://defense-update.com/20131006_r26_rubezh_icbm.html Carrier/Launcher for the RS-26...not to be confused with the cancelled SS-8 Sasin replacement of the early 1960s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 What is Israel afraid of? Will the declaration of it's nukes change anything? Not really. Thing is even the new Russian nukes are disclosed as any new nukes from the USA, other wise, would not have nice fancy pictures for those who get a hard on for hardware that FSU. Israel can be a big person country and declare the weapons. They can stop looking like a whiney kid because of Iran. Even if Iran makes one weapon and uses it successfully on Israel, the retaliation would wipe Iran off the map. No one aside from NK would be that crazy to use them. And I doubt even NK is that crazy. Declare the weapons or as Bill O'Rielly says 'just shut up'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) The enduring (and endearing) attributes of nuclear weapons are intensely modeled and tested virtually with supercomputers. The delivery systems are also subject to reliability issues and obsolescence. Many subsystems including the HE casings can be tested without violating treaties or voluntary moratoriums, but nothing beats good 'ole warhead testing with Mother Nature ! The codes used in supercomputers can only predict what will happen based on the physics that the programmers foresaw and programmed in. Having worked with computer codes that simulate nuclear fusion, plasma-radiation interactions, etc, I can tell you that even the foremost codes in this field use simplified physics models that do not capture the entire set of physics of what is going on. Furthermore, the data on the long term effects of the high radiation environment on the hundreds of different materials comprising a nuclear warhead is limited. And, besides all those issues, there is always the issue of the reliability of the electronics and other systems used to trigger the warhead. In the end, computer simulations are just that, and have to be validated against reality. That is in fact the primary reason for the building of the National Ignition Facility (NIF), whose goal is to create miniature thermonuclear explosions without using bombs (the secondary reason is for fusion energy research). These explosions can then be studied in detail and used as a validation dataset for the models. Of course, NIF has yet to achieve its goals, and even if it does, it only removes one part of the uncertainty associated with the enduring stockpile. The reality is if the US wants to remain confident in its nuclear deterrent capabilities, it will have to design and test new warheads over the coming 2-3 decades. The same is true even more strongly for other nuclear powers, who have more limited simulation abilities, vastly less historical testing data, and no facilities similar to NIF to get new nuclear explosion data (France is the only other country with a similar facility planned). Edited January 30, 2014 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 What is Israel afraid of? Will the declaration of it's nukes change anything? Not really. Thing is even the new Russian nukes are disclosed as any new nukes from the USA, other wise, would not have nice fancy pictures for those who get a hard on for hardware that FSU. Israel can be a big person country and declare the weapons. They can stop looking like a whiney kid because of Iran. Even if Iran makes one weapon and uses it successfully on Israel, the retaliation would wipe Iran off the map. No one aside from NK would be that crazy to use them. And I doubt even NK is that crazy. Declare the weapons or as Bill O'Rielly says 'just shut up'. The US isn't making new nuclear weapons. Obama cancelled the program. Re: your whining about Israel...I already explained to you why MAD doesn't work for Israel...and if they DO engage in MAD, it would be in the form of something so horrible your brain is unable to wrap itself around it. All your complaining about Zionists and such will mean nothing if this comes to pass as we'll ALL be kaput...no exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 The US isn't making new nuclear weapons. Obama cancelled the program. Yeah he said he would close GITMO too, and fix Obamacare and ... Re: your whining about Israel...I already explained to you why MAD doesn't work for Israel...and if they DO engage in MAD, it would be in the form of something so horrible your brain is unable to wrap itself around it. All your complaining about Zionists and such will mean nothing if this comes to pass as we'll ALL be kaput...no exceptions. This is an Israel issue (country) not a zionist issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yeah he said he would close GITMO too, and fix Obamacare and ... This is an Israel issue (country) not a zionist issue. Still...you whine. What's the plan when you finally get Israel to confess about its nuclear weapon program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Still...you whine. What's the plan when you finally get Israel to confess about its nuclear weapon program? Well then they can have meaningful dialogue with Iran. The saying goes, put up or shut up. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Well then they can have meaningful dialogue with Iran. The saying goes, put up or shut up. Right? We already KNOW Israel has them. Right? What is your proposal re: 'meaningful dialogue' once Israel admits to having them? Forced disarmament? Verbal scolding? Boycott of Israel? Live and let live? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 We already KNOW Israel has them. Right? Nope, that is all pure speculation. And Israel will not confirm or deny the fact. They decided on ambiguity and obfuscation. What is your proposal re: 'meaningful dialogue' once Israel admits to having them? Forced disarmament? Verbal scolding? Boycott of Israel? Live and let live? What? Declaring them and joining the NPT would be a start. If not, they have no reason to bitch about Iran or any other nation on the planet regarding nuclear weapons. Do you think one Iran nuke is going to change the balance? Not one bit. So Bibi and his fearmongers should get back to the UN with another nice graphic. Tell him to bring his red marker too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 One nuke can level a city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 One nuke can level a city. And how many does Israel have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 And how many does Israel have? None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 None. And you believe them when they say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) And you believe them when they say that? You do... Nope, that is all pure speculation. And Israel will not confirm or deny the fact. They decided on ambiguity and obfuscation. Edited January 31, 2014 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 You do... I do believe they have them yes. Where do you stand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I do believe they have them yes. Where do you stand? That's great you believe Israel when they say they have no nuclear weapons. GH: Nope, that is all pure speculation. And Israel will not confirm or deny the fact. They decided on ambiguity and obfuscation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 So...again...what is your plan when you manage to force Israel to admit to its apparent nuclear weapons? Jump up and down a lot? Write an angry letter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 That's great you believe Israel when they say they have no nuclear weapons. Nice twist of words yet again. Never change bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Nice twist of words yet again. Never change bro. You're the only claiming both. Either way, anti-Zionists can complain all they wish about Israel and the NPT but they have no real plan as to what to do about it. Arm Iran with nukes, I suppose....it's only fair...lol. Meanwhile, I'd suggest a quick watch of this great film/novel...when you bother with such things. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfP1FCJTlo0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%281959_film%29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud Posted February 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) So...again...what is your plan when you manage to force Israel to admit to its apparent nuclear weapons? Jump up and down a lot? Write an angry letter? what an arrogant response. he is basically saying: "haha! sure the system is hypocritical but there is nothing you can do about it! - haha!" maybe dogonporch can tell us how he jumps up and down, whining because iran has developed ICBM's, which are pretty much a smoking gun and proves that a country has nuclear weapons. Edited February 1, 2014 by bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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