RB Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 York University approves that male student should be excused from group projects having women. It interfers with his religious beliefs Please tell me we are not back where we started. Quote
cybercoma Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 This is a horrible decision by the university for many reasons. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Sensationalism (1. He made a request not a demand, and in the end did the assignment without arguement. (2. It was an online course, if interactive group work were a known requirement, it might have changed course decisions. (3. The only reason this made the papers is the prof got his nose out of joint as he was overuled. York academia are known for their "me"ness. IMO the prof should leave administrative items to the administration, and concentrate on his teaching. (4. All with the opinion that there should be no exemptions, but exemptions are given arbitrarily in college, your innocuous excuse is just as good as the next. Quote
cybercoma Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Administration is academic service are part of a professor's responsibilities. Teaching is actually pretty far down the list of things they do. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Course administration is the responsibility of the dean, delegated to the prof in most cases. The moment the prof's personal beliefs became involved in this case, he should've punted it upstairs. Quote
RB Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Posted January 12, 2014 I of course am surprised and at the same time appalled of the university insistence accommodation of this request. I am glad that the profession took it to the public - why keep it quiet and "don't let the girls know" Quote
jbg Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 This is far beyond the principal of non-discrimination. That principal requires that straight people accept gays as equal. It does not require the imposition of a gay life style on others. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Bob Macadoo Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 I of course am surprised and at the same time appalled of the university insistence accommodation of this request. I am glad that the profession took it to the public - why keep it quiet and "don't let the girls know"Keep it quiet as to now create a hostile learning environment for the student if he remains enrolled. He had no hostility, but your attitude emotes it.The only thing saving the prof is not revealing his name, otherwise I would seek disciplinary action against him. Quote
kimmy Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 I bet the women at York University are really feeling deprived that this terrific individual doesn't want to associate with them. He probably has lots of great information that he could share. Yup, there's little doubt that the women at York are the real losers in this one. For sure. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
-1=e^ipi Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Interestingly enough both the CPC and the NDP have condemned the student's request and supported the professor while the supposedly centrist LPC has been supported the actions of the York University administration. Guess Trudeau and the liberals really like cultural relativism and want the islamist vote next election. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 This crap don't fly in Canada. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Shame on these York admin fools. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Argus Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 The interesting part of this, for me, is why this request was approved. Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest the person who made the request bows to mecca several times a day. There is a 'traditon' among numerous Muslim cultures of segregation, but there is nothing in Islam which really calls for this. It merely requires modesty in behaviour and dress. So the actual tradition of segregation is merely a cultural artifact of the nations these people come from. I'm also going to go out on a limb and suggest that if a regular old white guy made this request and said "Well, they're just distracting, you know, and give me obscene thoughts' he'd get very little sympathy. Yet these are precisely the reasons given in Islamic countries for why women and men ought to be separated. It's not a religious belief, it's a misogynistic (and stupid) cultural practice from foreign lands. You know, the lands and cultures these people left behind to become Canadians... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 I'm also going to go out on a limb and suggest that if a regular old white guy made this request and said "Well, they're just distracting, you know, and give me obscene thoughts' he'd get very little sympathy. Well, yes, because there's no religious basis. Really, such things as religious accommodation are now just part of administration processes for organizations. I don't really see how such things are 'news' except that they garner attention/clicks/views... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Argus Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Well, yes, because there's no religious basis. And, as I've explained, there is no religious basis in Islam for this either. It is a cultural preference. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Well, yes, because there's no religious basis. Really, such things as religious accommodation are now just part of administration processes for organizations. Not sure one is even needed. Are males and females detained or incarcerated together in Canada's jails and prisons ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Well, yes, because there's no religious basis. Really, such things as religious accommodation are now just part of administration processes for organizations. I don't really see how such things are 'news' except that they garner attention/clicks/views... It's news because the administration of the University said it's OK for a man to ask not to associate with women. What would you think if an HR department allowed the same accommodation? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 And, as I've explained, there is no religious basis in Islam for this either. It is a cultural preference. I heard that they consulted religious scholars in their decision. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Are males and females detained or incarcerated together in Canada's jails and prisons ? I don't think so - but ... are you saying that gender segregation is some kind of option here ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Boges Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 I heard that they consulted religions scholars in their decision. No the professor did, in denying the request. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 I don't think so - but ... are you saying that gender segregation is some kind of option here ? Sorta, as "gender segregation" is certainly practiced in other government and private settings. Religious freedom appears not to be the determining factor. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Michael Hardner Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 It's news because the administration of the University said it's OK for a man to ask not to associate with women. What would you think if an HR department allowed the same accommodation? I don't personally care about the issue; if the university thinks they can reasonably accommodate it then it's fine with me. There may be issues that will push me into the outrage zone but this isn't close. An HR department might well accommodate such a requirement too. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Sorta, as "gender segregation" is certainly practiced in other government and private settings. Religious freedom appears not to be the determining factor. Well then, there you are. The government will soon be retroactively moving against Our Gang's Spanky and his "Girl haterz klub" ... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Bob Macadoo Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I'm also going to go out on a limb and suggest that if a regular old white guy made this request and said "Well, they're just distracting, you know, and give me obscene thoughts' he'd get very little sympathy. Yet these are precisely the reasons given in Islamic countries for why women and men ought to be separated. It's not a religious belief, it's a misogynistic (and stupid) cultural practice from foreign lands. You know, the lands and cultures these people left behind to become Canadians...Actually thats what university is known for, accommodation in the face of all logic. Thats what gets me about this, the prof looked for a reason to deny. If any other manner of exemption request was made he would've likely shrugged his shoulders. In this case the "sociology" academic decided to do research into the topic......interesting. I would suggest a future lecture was outlined that day.I went to university with a mature student (old drafter), he was always grouped away from females as he made it clear he thought they weren't serious about "real" engineering so he wouldn't take them seriously. Accommodation for old white guy confirmed. Edited January 12, 2014 by Bob Macadoo Quote
Guest Posted January 12, 2014 Report Posted January 12, 2014 Accommodation for old white guy confirmed. Was it right? Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted January 13, 2014 Report Posted January 13, 2014 I heard that they consulted religious scholars in their decision. If so, did the scholars tell the school that this is a really ridiculous "religious belief"? What religion is this anyways?...we don't even know, because the student never told the prof. The fact is, Toronto is a very liberal city, and York/Osgoode Hall is a very liberal university. They also have pretty aggressive affirmative action policies. The York admin has its priorities completely backwards, and this isn't "reasonable" accommodation. There are religious accommodations Canada should accept, and some Canada shouldn't. If you live in Canada, you shouldn't have a right not to associate with female classmates. Are we going to allow this in public elementary/high schools as well? I think not. Welcome to Canada, where males and females associate with each other on a daily basis, and if you don't like it too bad. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
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