Is Russia becoming North Korea?

[Argus]

North Korea isn't so much a country, as the personal fief of Kim Jong Un, as it was his father's and grandfather's. The state controls every aspect of everyone's life, from cradle to grave, from what the people are taught in school to what they read or hear or see throughout their lives. And the mainstay of what they are taught is that Un is a heroic figure, a veritable God sent to succor them, and that everyone else in the world is an evil enemy from which he protecs them.

That's not altogether much different from the message Russians are given about Vladimir Putin from state controlled media agencies, and what they are learning in school. Putin has been increasing his power and the authoritarian nature of Russia since he first took power, eliminating enemies, either by murder or arrests on trumped up charges. He has poured money into the military and has not been shy about flexing its muscles abroad(witness Georgia) or at home (witness Chechnya).

By presidential decree, he eliminated the state owned news agency RIA Novosti, which has made some small efforts at balanced news, and is replacing it with a new agency under the firm hand of one of his sycophants. Information given to Russians about the world has been troubleing for some time, as Russia under Putin has increasingly portrayed the west as Russia's enemy. The demonstrations in Ukraine are all about Putin persuading, by blackmail or bribery, its president to abandon an economic relationshp with Europe in favor of re-embracing Russia's. This is seen as part of Putin's continuing effort at rebuiding the Soviet Union. Numerous other nominally independant states, formerly part of the Soviet Union, are also under Putin's control again. He has also enacted treason laws which are much more expansive, and can be used against anyone who works for or with foreigners. He has campaigned actively against foreign influence in Russia, and repeatedly said the west was trying to undermine Russia.

And Putin is a relatively young man. He will be Russia's dictator for many decades to come. Not much is known about his family. His grown daughters have never been pictured by Russian media, and there are rumors he used to beat his wife and that he is a womanizer with illigitimate children. Whether any of them will inherit Russia after Putin eventually goes is anyone's guess. But things are continuing to go downward in Russia, and with predictions Russia's oil will begin to run out in 7 years, one can only imagine how his mafia state will react when things begin to get harder on the Russian man on the street.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25299116

[guyser]

Have a gander at where the Russian Oligarchs live. The ones Putin didn't like are in prison or dead. The ones he did like, paid their 'bills' when due

You are spot on.

[Shady]

Good points. It's sad that they're slipping back into their former days of the Soviet Union. I still laugh when I think of the way mitt Romney was ridiculed by the mainstream media and the Obama administration for insisting that Russia was the untied states greatest geo-political foe.

[eyeball]

Of course you'd have to be a communist that hates our economy to suggest we stop enabling the Putins of the world by linking trade to human rights.

[Remiel]

I think there is perhaps some exaggeration here. I do not think there is any way Russia could exactly mirror the level of totalitarian control in North Korea (which had clamped down on its citizens long before the Information Age). But there is definitely something to be said for the worry. I would be interested to know how China would feel about Russia following the North Korean model though. I was under the impression that they tolerate the Kim's because of shared history, not because they like them or their insanity. I could imagine the Chinese distancing themselves from a Russia that goes that route.

[eyeball]

Can anyone else imagine Harper distancing himself from Russia or even worse China or am I really that far out in left field?

[Shady]

Of course you'd have to be a communist that hates our economy to suggest we stop enabling the Putins of the world by linking trade to human rights.

That's moral imperialism. Stop trying to push your way of life on others in the world.

[The_Squid]

That's moral imperialism. Stop trying to push your way of life on others in the world.

So you don't think Canada should have taken the stance we did on communism and the USSR?

[bleeding heart]

And you didn't support the "war for democracy" in Iraq....?

[Bonam]

Russia is, and has always been, the land of death, despair, and suffering. Nonetheless, comparing it to North Korea is not apt.

North Korea sends hundreds of thousands of people to extermination camps, its people starve, and its population is completely insulated from the outside world. In contrast, Russia has a rapidly advancing economy, and despite government efforts to regulate the media, it is also on the forefront of the use of internet technology to enable the free flow of information. In fact, a lot of content that used to be freely available on US websites can, these days, only be found on Russian ones. The Russian surveillance apparatus is nowhere near as omnipresent as the American one, mostly because Russia isn't as technologically capable to implement such an apparatus, but there it is nonetheless.

Additionally, the extent to which Russia meddles with surrounding nations is not outside of the norm of what other nations do, whether it be the US, the UK and France, or China. Like any other country with enough power to do so, Russia wants to strengthen and grow its sphere of influence to ensure its economic, security, and cultural interests. While Russian interests may conflict with Western ones here and there (or even most of the time), I don't think it's dangerous in the same way as it was when it was trying to spread the inherently deadly, evil, and anti-human ideology of communism. Now it's just a garden variety rival power.

[Moonlight Graham]

North Korea is totalitarian, Russia is authoritarian (like many other non-western countries).

Edited December 9, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[-1=e^ipi]

Can't believe that I'm going to merit this thread with a response.

No Russia is not becoming like North Korea. How is that even possible? Culturally they are very different and Russia is not isolated like north korea. The north korean state can only be maintained by keeping the people in poverty and ignorant.

That said, to an extent I like the fact that Putin has been acting as somewhat of a counter measure to the west, especially with respect to the Syrian conflict. Helping the west avoid a war with Syria and negotiating Syria to give up her chemical weapons (while making Cameron & Obama look like idiots that support organ eaters) were good.

[Argus]

Can anyone else imagine Harper distancing himself from Russia or even worse China or am I really that far out in left field?

Yes.

Harper, as you might recall, was the last major western holdout in the stampede to curry favour with China. It wasn't until the great recession that he reluctantly abandoned his coldness to the Chinese in looking for trade access.

It's worth noting he was strongly criticized by the Liberals, among others, and I believe, the NDP, for not being nicer to China.

I don't think Harper has ever shown much affection for or interest in Russia.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Argus

[Argus]

Can't believe that I'm going to merit this thread with a response.

No Russia is not becoming like North Korea. How is that even possible? Culturally they are very different and Russia is not isolated like north korea. The north korean state can only be maintained by keeping the people in poverty and ignorant.

Keeping the Russians in ignorance is why he's been closing down independant media and driving foreign media out. As for poverty, most Russians aren't exactly well-off, and that will get much worse when the oil runs out.

That said, to an extent I like the fact that Putin has been acting as somewhat of a counter measure to the west,

That's like saying it's good we have Satan because otherwise God would have too much power. We need Satan help offset God's power...

[-1=e^ipi]

That's like saying it's good we have Satan because otherwise God would have too much power. We need Satan help offset God's power...

There is no satan, there is no god. Just a bunch of faerie tales.

Anyway, I gave an example where it has been good (Syrian civil war).

Keeping the Russians in ignorance is why he's been closing down independant media and driving foreign media out. As for poverty, most Russians aren't exactly well-off, and that will get much worse when the oil runs out.

Oil and other natural resources in Russia will not run out for a very long time (i.e. all of us will be dead). And by then, the world will be a very different place.

[Argus]

Oil and other natural resources in Russia will not run out for a very long time (i.e. all of us will be dead). And by then, the world will be a very different place.

From what Forbes said oil can run out in 7 years, and Russia would then immediately be in a deficit.

And wishing for the continued survival of vicious dictators to offset the US is, I think, a ridiculous political hope.

[eyeball]

Harper, as you might recall, was the last major western holdout in the stampede to curry favour with China. It wasn't until the great recession that he reluctantly abandoned his coldness to the Chinese in looking for trade access.

It's worth noting he was strongly criticized by the Liberals, among others, and I believe, the NDP, for not being nicer to China.

So I'm actually way out in right field? How the hell can that be?

[-1=e^ipi]

Lol what? You claim that russia will run out of oil in 7 years?

[Bonam]

Keeping the Russians in ignorance is why he's been closing down independant media and driving foreign media out. As for poverty, most Russians aren't exactly well-off, and that will get much worse when the oil runs out.

I honestly have trouble seeing how shutting down one state news agency and replacing it with another is any worse than monitoring and recording all communications of everyone at all times, which is what the US does. Or the UK's new nationwide firewall to censor out all online content that is not government approved, a replica of China's system. In fact, Russia has less online surveillance and less internet censorship than many Western nations.

That's like saying it's good we have Satan because otherwise God would have too much power. We need Satan help offset God's power...

Like -1=e^ipi said, a bunch of faerie tales, though I get your analogy. But your analogy implies that the US is "good" while Russia is "evil". That argument would have had merit during the times of the Soviet Union, due to the inherent evil of communism. But now it's much less clear. Yes, Russia has less freedoms for its people than Western nations do right now. However, like the Chinese, the Russian people have been gaining freedoms over the last 30 years, whereas Western governments have been eradicating civil liberties as quickly as they can manage.

From what Forbes said oil can run out in 7 years, and Russia would then immediately be in a deficit.

A deeply flawed prediction. People have been predicting that oil will run out in a few years for like 100 years. It hasn't happened yet, because the technology we use to get oil keeps improving. Oil will run out eventually, but all the latest estimates show that the reserves still in the ground dwarf the amounts that have been burned so far, except that these reserves are in remote areas, or under the ocean, or in bitumen deposits, etc. Russia has the technical expertise to expand its oil extraction operations to these new sources as needed.

Russia also has vast deposits of coal and natural gas, and, additionally, it has arguably the world's foremost level of expertise in nuclear energy (ahead of the US and France), as only Russia operates or has operational experience with a number of nuclear reactor types and technologies that have never been built anywhere else. Russia is alone of all nations in being able to produce Plutonium 238 and several other useful radio-isotopes, is alone of all nations in being able to reprocess a number of radio-isotopes, is alone of all nations in having placed and operated a nuclear reactor in space. Russia's status as an energy superpower isn't going anywhere.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Bonam

[Guest Derek L]

From what Forbes said oil can run out in 7 years, and Russia would then immediately be in a deficit.

And wishing for the continued survival of vicious dictators to offset the US is, I think, a ridiculous political hope.

That’s not exactly true, proven Russian reserves are still substantial, but with current Soviet Russian extracting and refining techniques are not viable……And that’s discounting Siberia.

With that said, once the Russians come to grips and embrace fracking and further develop & modernize their conventional natural gas output, they will have the potential to corner the European market even further…..

Regardless of all the problems associated with the Russians, energy reserves are not one of them…..And at the end of the day, North American and Russian reserves extracted under a “smart” energy policy can further diminish the influence of the backwards folk residing in the Middle East……I fore one think that is something to be embraced and would accept an influential Putin over influential Arabs & Persians any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Derek L

[Rue]

Lol finally a topic other than Israel. Enjoyed the discourse so far. Well my two cents is that

I believe Putin is a ruthless left over from the Communist Party. I personally believe he is

a thug for the Communist Party left-overs who were displaced but did not go too far.

I believe all the old farts at the top of the Communist Party died or could not handle the changes but

the mid managers, the ruthless people with no names at the desks running the myriad of bureaucratic

structures formed their own little networks, grabbed billions as Russia went into chaos and bided their

time realizing Yeltsin was a drunk and was dying.

This rise from nowhere by Putin as suddenly working in the KGB and being an assistant to the

Mayor of St. Petersburgh at the same time and then his magic rise to power could not have happened

in Russia without an organized syndicate behind him and Russian crime may be too fractured to have done

that on their own so I believe its a hybrid Russian crime former Communist Party clique of power brokers

that back him.

Putin to me is as ruthless a sociopath as we have ever seen in office. He is far more intelligent than Hitler

and I would put him right up there in terms of Stalin or Mao Tse Tung in terms of how far he will go to consolidate and

protect his power base.

He represents a nation that has the world's largest oil and water reserves and its hands on all valuable minerals.

He can sit back and watch the slave labour economy of China implode and India flounder with its entrenched

caste system and coruption that prevents efficiency and bide his time.

To me he is the most powerful negative force on the planet and underestimated by all.

He is highly intelligent and capable of seeing the big picture but he has an Achilles he has shown and that

is his insecurity with his own masculinity. His making a big deal about homosexuality in his own country

is a classic manifestation of his own insecurity and that can be exploited. His ego, his fragile ego will be the death

of him.

The more ruthless they act, the weaker they feel inside. He's a modern version of King Saul. He may be the latest

in a line of Russian Czars that runs by brutal force but they all kill themselves with their own paranoia.

[GostHacked]

That's moral imperialism. Stop trying to push your way of life on others in the world.

Yeah stop trying to give freedom to countries that don't want it.

[GostHacked]

Lol finally a topic other than Israel.

Have you checked out the rest of the forums at all? There is a whole website chock full of information of other things not Israel.

[Rue]

Ghost I was clearly referring to the "Rest of the World" section.

I understand though how you would be confused.

[GostHacked]

Ghost I was clearly referring to the "Rest of the World" section.

I understand though how you would be confused.

Clearly, you rarely if ever go outside of this section. Unless it deals with Israel, or Rob Ford.