cybercoma Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 That's not a flaming. I simply asked a question. As for your question, "can you not believe that more than one person has a different view to yours"? Well, that question is just completely ridiculous. You have different views than me and I don't think you're the same poster as PIK and KeepItSimple. So what's up with jumping in and trying to be Miss White Knight? Quote
Jimmy Wilson Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 Or he is telling the truth. You guys amaze me with your dreams. Harper will not quit, he will take on and beat both trudeau and mulcair. Why, because the libs have no idea what to do and the NDP are to extreme. people are not going to roll the dice with these 2. Of course,there's always a cadre of true believers who've drank the Kool-Aid and feel the current PM is actually the most ethical PM we've had and he's actually "Here For Canada/Standing Up For Canada" No arguement about St.Justin in that he's essentially a corporate branding excercise to get the Liberal's back into power.But,you'll have to explain for us how when Mr. Mulcair talks about keeping refining jobs in Canada,vis a vis pipeline construction (instead of shipping them South,which is what would happen with Keystone XL),how that's "extreme"? Quote "Neo-conservativism,I think,is really the aggrandizement of selfishness.It's about me,only me,and after that,me.It's about only investing in things that produce a huge profit for yourself.It's NOT about society as a whole and it tends to be very insensitive to those people,who for one reason or another,have fallen beneath the poverty line and it's engaged in presumptions that these people are all poor because they are lazy.Neo-conservatives believe that fundamentally..." Senator Hugh Segal
WWWTT Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 Peter van Loan = Comical Ali (remember him?) http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/12/16/tory-mps-speak-out-as-pmo-loses-credibility-ministers-become-potential-leadership-rivals/ 2013 was definitely the worst year to date for the conservatives since their conception! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
jacee Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 Sorry Jack. But the senate scandal is exactly that, a senate scandal. But it's significance barely registers outside of Ottawa and Toronto. It's just not a big deal, especially in people's everyday life.You wish! . Quote
jacee Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) I don't know, he spelled it out pretty clearly in his year-end interview with Jacques Bourbeau: Based on his previous track record, I think he will likely follow through on his stated intentions despite the possible scenarios that others are anxiously creating on his behalf. By then the courts will be hopping with robocall and senate scandal proceedings. Harper said it himself in that interview:http://globalnews.ca/news/1041537/harper-says-no-doubt-hell-stay-on-as-leader-in-2015-as-he-looks-to-make-changes-to-his-office-in-wake-of-senate-scandal/ But in the end, when you have these kinds of situations, as a leader you have to take responsibility. Edited December 21, 2013 by jacee Quote
Argus Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 Of course,there's always a cadre of true believers who've drank the Kool-Aid and feel the current PM is actually the most ethical PM we've had Who would you say was more ethical? Oh, I'm sure you could go back in time but you'd have to go some distance. I don't consider Martin or Chretien to have been particularly ethical, not as ethical as Harper, anyway. Trudeu and Mulroney had no ethics to speak of when it came to taxpayers money. Pearson? I don't know enough about the political manoeuvrings which took place back then, but I doubt he was Mr. Pure. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 I think if we want "ethical" government, we have to look to the future and demand better. Quote
Argus Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 I think if we want "ethical" government, we have to look to the future and demand better. The problem with that is it's naive and unrealistic. The whole political process works against a truly ethical person ever getting far. Just running for office requies they submit to the spin doctors who will teach them how to massage information and fool people into thinking they mean one thing without any actual commitment to it. They'll have to learn doublespeak, have to learn to deny the obvious. Only those who show a demosntrated ability at this can hope to proceed higher on the greasy ladder. And there the ethical challenges are much more severe. I don't think an ethical person would even join the political process, never mind go through it and emerge with their ethics still intact. You can't climb the greasy ladder without getting greasy. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 not as ethical as Harper, anyway. I don't think an ethical person would even join the political process, never mind go through it and emerge with their ethics still intact. You can't climb the greasy ladder without getting greasy. is your guy Harper just so profoundly and fundamentally ethically grounded that he rose above your stated 'greasiness'..... that he climbed your described 'greasy ladder' unscathed... with his inherent ethics still intact? St. Harper, anyone? . Quote
jacee Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 The problem with that is it's naive and unrealistic. The whole political process works against a truly ethical person ever getting far. Just running for office requies they submit to the spin doctors who will teach them how to massage information and fool people into thinking they mean one thing without any actual commitment to it. They'll have to learn doublespeak, have to learn to deny the obvious. Only those who show a demosntrated ability at this can hope to proceed higher on the greasy ladder. And there the ethical challenges are much more severe. I don't think an ethical person would even join the political process, never mind go through it and emerge with their ethics still intact. You can't climb the greasy ladder without getting greasy. Too true: The slimy qualities politicians often need to get into power are not the qualities we need in our leaders. . Quote
eyeball Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 We don't need leaders, we need politicians who follow their constituent's instructions. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Shady Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 We don't need leaders, we need politicians who follow their constituent's instructions. No, we need leaders as well. Quote
eyeball Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 Maybe you do. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Jimmy Wilson Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 Who would you say was more ethical? Oh, I'm sure you could go back in time but you'd have to go some distance. I don't consider Martin or Chretien to have been particularly ethical, not as ethical as Harper, anyway. Trudeu and Mulroney had no ethics to speak of when it came to taxpayers money. Pearson? I don't know enough about the political manoeuvrings which took place back then, but I doubt he was Mr. Pure. I agree...And none were terribly ethical...I suppose "ethics" in politics is on par with "truthyness" in politics... The point being that when one puts oneself up as running the most ethical government we've ever had (I'm not sure it was ever said verbatim,but,it was certainly implied),one shouldn't get upset when one's ethical behaviour comes into question.... "Standing Up for Canada/Here For Canada"....Not really... Quote "Neo-conservativism,I think,is really the aggrandizement of selfishness.It's about me,only me,and after that,me.It's about only investing in things that produce a huge profit for yourself.It's NOT about society as a whole and it tends to be very insensitive to those people,who for one reason or another,have fallen beneath the poverty line and it's engaged in presumptions that these people are all poor because they are lazy.Neo-conservatives believe that fundamentally..." Senator Hugh Segal
Jimmy Wilson Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 No, we need leaders as well. Standard Dear Leader/Submission to Authority complex of the political Right duly noted... Quote "Neo-conservativism,I think,is really the aggrandizement of selfishness.It's about me,only me,and after that,me.It's about only investing in things that produce a huge profit for yourself.It's NOT about society as a whole and it tends to be very insensitive to those people,who for one reason or another,have fallen beneath the poverty line and it's engaged in presumptions that these people are all poor because they are lazy.Neo-conservatives believe that fundamentally..." Senator Hugh Segal
WWWTT Posted December 21, 2013 Report Posted December 21, 2013 This link helps show that how the conservatives could be in a lot more trouble then what the conservatives here think they're in! http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglobeandmail.com%2Fglobe-debate%2Ffor-two-years-conservatives-are-all-about-the-10-per-cent%2Farticle16059597%2F&h=8AQGs_kHm&s=1 WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Shady Posted December 22, 2013 Report Posted December 22, 2013 Standard Dear Leader/Submission to Authority complex of the political Right duly noted... Incorrect. Strong leadership is a necessity of good presidents/prime ministers, etc. you're resorting to cliches and projections. Quote
Argus Posted December 22, 2013 Report Posted December 22, 2013 Incorrect. Strong leadership is a necessity of good presidents/prime ministers, etc. you're resorting to cliches and projections. I'm not sure I would characterize Stephen Harper as a strong leader. He's certainly an alpha male who insists on getting his way. He's determined and can bludgeon others into doing it his way. But in a democracy leadership implies being able to communicate where you want to go and convince others to support you and join you in making it happen. Harper's communication skills are minimal (and his party is even worse, if that's possible). He's not charismatic, by any means and even when he says something that makes sense, and that I can agree with and support, well, he then goes and does something quite different... He communicated that he wanted more open, responsible government for example, quite clearly. But we never got it. He communicated that he would be fiscally responsible, but cutting taxes to score political points was evidently more important. Just like a strong military isn't as important as reaching his artificial timeline for balancing the budget in time for next election. I think a lot of us will vote for him next time around anyway, simply because it's either him or that craven boy with the pretty hair, or Mr. Quebec. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted December 22, 2013 Report Posted December 22, 2013 I'm pretty sure I would NOT characterize Harper as a strong leader. All he does is hide in the shadows and prattle on with this " I have been very clear" response that is completely ridiculous and usually gets a chorus of laughter from the rest of the house, as it should. Apparently most have lost respect for him. And according to the polls, the "pretty hair" boy is kicking his butt. I guess from a strategic point of view, now that Tom has totally trashed Harper, he now needs to set his sights on Trudeau. Could be interesting times ahead. Quote
Argus Posted December 22, 2013 Report Posted December 22, 2013 We don't need leaders, we need politicians who follow their constituent's instructions. But their constituents are usually ignorant, short sighted, uneducated and self-serving. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted December 23, 2013 Report Posted December 23, 2013 I think we should go get Rex Murphy and drag him kicking and screaming to Ottawa and make him be PM. Then we grab Niel Young and Joni and let them have a say. They all know what it's like to be poor, and they all know what it's like to be rich. And they are all smart and creative. And I think they all love the things that make Canada a great place to live. So let them have a go at running it. What do ya say? Quote
jacee Posted December 23, 2013 Report Posted December 23, 2013 But their constituents are usually ignorant, short sighted, uneducated and self-serving.Are you making an argument for dictatorship? Quote
g_bambino Posted December 23, 2013 Report Posted December 23, 2013 Standard Dear Leader/Submission to Authority complex of the political Right duly noted... What? As though leftist organisations all the way to the far, far left haven't had and don't now have leaders.... Quote
g_bambino Posted December 23, 2013 Report Posted December 23, 2013 I'm not sure I would characterize Stephen Harper as a strong leader... n a democracy leadership implies being able to communicate where you want to go and convince others to support you and join you in making it happen... He communicated that he wanted more open, responsible government for example, quite clearly. But we never got it. He communicated that he would be fiscally responsible, but cutting taxes to score political points was evidently more important. Just like a strong military isn't as important as reaching his artificial timeline for balancing the budget in time for next election. He was evidently communicative enough and convincing enough to lead his party to a majority in the Commons. As for the rest of what you say above, you're describing pretty well every political leader there ever was. Lies can be communicated convincingly (as politicians and voters alike know). Quote
WWWTT Posted December 24, 2013 Report Posted December 24, 2013 I'm sure... Are you sure you're sure? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.