Should Stephen Harper resign?

[BubberMiley]

What's Chretien got to do with anything? He already resigned.

[cybercoma]

Stephen Harper is actually not accountable for any of this. You want to know why? Because his government changed the accountability guidelines making ministers less responsible for what happens on their watch. Now I know conservatives in this country didn't vote for the CPC to have them loosen the accountability rules, yet they still defend Harper. He's making them look very foolish.

When the Conservatives first took power in 2006, Accountable Government: A Guide for Ministers and Secretaries of State said that ministers were responsible for “the actions of all officials under their management and direction, whether or not the ministers had prior knowledge.”

But a version of the guidelines from 2011 says: “Ministerial accountability to Parliament does not mean that a minister is presumed to have knowledge of every matter that occurs within his or her department or portfolio, nor that the minister is necessarily required to accept blame for every matter.”

Read: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senators-won-t-ask-deloitte-partner-to-explain-duffy-audit-call-1.2443662?cmp=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

There was a time in this country when Ministers, as managers of their department and democratically elected representatives, would take full responsibility for their staff. If it happened on their watch, they would take the bullet. Not any more. Harper has actually made them less accountable under his watch.

Is this what conservatives want? Is this what anybody wants?

[PIK]

What's Chretien got to do with anything? He already resigned.

Precedent been set by him.

[madmax]

That's incorrect. I would not have been embarrassed if Michael Ignatieff had become PM. At least he's someone of some substance. Unlike Justin.

LMAO!!!

Try posting something believeable and honest.

[eyeball]

Stephen Harper is actually not accountable for any of this. You want to know why? Because his government changed the accountability guidelines making ministers less responsible for what happens on their watch. Now I know conservatives in this country didn't vote for the CPC to have them loosen the accountability rules, yet they still defend Harper. He's making them look very foolish.

There was a time in this country when Ministers, as managers of their department and democratically elected representatives, would take full responsibility for their staff. If it happened on their watch, they would take the bullet. Not any more. Harper has actually made them less accountable under his watch.

Is this what conservatives want? Is this what anybody wants?

Harper seems more like the captain of the Costa Concordia.

You don't see many people diving under buses for Schettino.

[cybercoma]

More like John Gotti with all of his human bullet proof vests.

[On Guard for Thee]

Harper is between a rock and a hard place. He likely knew something was being planned but did not know the details. We also know that the original plan (help duffy to repay in return for a public apology) made a lot of sense. The plan only went awry because duffy kept demanding more and more (such as no apology and protection from audits). The trouble is such subtle details cannot be explained in the media.

[jacee]

It makes me laugh how everyone is trying to get harper to step down over something like trying to get the taxpayers money back. It was handled wrong, but it is not a hanging offence. If chretien can steal, and assault proyesyts and make fun of the court ,and use our dime to set up his retirement in china, then why should harper quit???? Who is going to, answer this???

Harper aspires to be like Chretien?

Was that in his platform?

Is that why Conservatives elected him?

/rcmp-docs-show-how-deep-the-rot-was-in-pmo-conservative-consultant-

The people in the PMO have basically been running the country for years telling MPs how to vote, telling campaigns what theyre allowed to say and who theyre allowed to speak to, which is generally nobody and nothing, he said.

In both his editorial and on Power Play, Sachs accused the Conservative Party under Harper of betraying what he called the traditional conservative mindset that power tends to corrupt. Sachs told Power Play that it was this mindset that was the driving force behind the Conservative movement during the Chretien years.

"I dont see what conservative and liberal has to do with ethics, he said. And as I said in my article, I think the Conservatives should find it easier to reconcile themselves with the idea that the party has strayed from the proper path.

It appears to me that Conservatives who stick to conservative values are deserting Harper.

You can't have both.

Edited November 29, 2013 by jacee

[PIK]

Nobody is leaving, why do people like you keep over blowing everything. Martin lost 10 pts when adscam came out and never got it back, harper lost little. Do you think conservatives are going to vote trudeau??

[ZZelda]

Should all prime Ministers Resign if they have a scandal ???? Has Harper been good for Canada?? Only have to look south of border and see a difference or look around the world and see what Financial State other countries are in. Harpers goverment has a surplus in this time of financial crises around the world (WTF). Lets assume Harper resigns and Justin Trudeau is the new Prime Minister. I do not know much about him except that he has 2 years acting school and supposed to have his experience to lead country because his dad was P.M. does that mean all children who's Dad was P.M. also have the experience. Will report more on Justin T. and report what i find. Oh Yea I dont take what news tv or papers say they only tell 1 side of story need to look deeper to find truth. Go Canada Go later all

[socialist]

Should all prime Ministers Resign if they have a scandal ???? Has Harper been good for Canada?? Only have to look south of border and see a difference or look around the world and see what Financial State other countries are in. Harpers goverment has a surplus in this time of financial crises around the world (WTF). Lets assume Harper resigns and Justin Trudeau is the new Prime Minister. I do not know much about him except that he has 2 years acting school and supposed to have his experience to lead country because his dad was P.M. does that mean all children who's Dad was P.M. also have the experience. Will report more on Justin T. and report what i find. Oh Yea I dont take what news tv or papers say they only tell 1 side of story need to look deeper to find truth. Go Canada Go later all

Justin is bringing integrity back to politics. Canadians are smart and know Justin is honest, and that he can relate to the plight of the middle class. Justin doesn't need to sue attack ads to get a message across. I'm excited about the prospect of having Justin be our PM for many years. He has his dad's charisma, and people will gravitate to him. I know JT will take the environment seriously and get Canada's high level of dangerous emissions under control. I also truly believe that Trudeau, much like Obama, will be one of the world's most respected leaders, and a leader of the G8 and G20.

Harpr in my opinion is done. He seems to have lost interest and scandal after scandal after scandal is taking its toll on him. CPS will be lucky to win 70 seats next election.

Some thought the Liberals were dead. Not even close. They will be back with around 180-190 seats next election.

[cybercoma]

Nobody is leaving, why do people like you keep over blowing everything. Martin lost 10 pts when adscam came out and never got it back, harper lost little. Do you think conservatives are going to vote trudeau??

I think Conservatives are getting sick of Harper. Note, uppercase "C". There's still another year and a half until an election. You might have a second choice at the polls before long.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/backbench-revolt-conservatives-bill-would-give-mps-power-to-turf-leader/article15680354/#dashboard/follows/

Edited November 30, 2013 by cybercoma

[eyeball]

“The fact that he would do it now tells me he’s being encouraged by a number of his other Conservative colleagues who are probably feeling a little downtrodden. Harper’s been so abusive and so domineering of his own caucus, that this is probably the thin end of the wedge.”

Power to them, along with the rest of us.

[On Guard for Thee]

Should all prime Ministers Resign if they have a scandal ???? Has Harper been good for Canada?? Only have to look south of border and see a difference or look around the world and see what Financial State other countries are in. Harpers goverment has a surplus in this time of financial crises around the world (WTF). Lets assume Harper resigns and Justin Trudeau is the new Prime Minister. I do not know much about him except that he has 2 years acting school and supposed to have his experience to lead country because his dad was P.M. does that mean all children who's Dad was P.M. also have the experience. Will report more on Justin T. and report what i find. Oh Yea I dont take what news tv or papers say they only tell 1 side of story need to look deeper to find truth. Go Canada Go later all

A surplus, I dont think so. And apparently you havent researched Trudeau much either.

[ReeferMadness]

I think a succession plan is proactive and smart, it prepares and conditions both the party and the leader for the change instead of throwing someone into the mix cold. Some individuals can hit the ground running, but not many. Look at the struggles the Liberal party has had with their last 3 attempts at installing a new leader.

A plan is a framework, it's not an order. Part of the intention of succession is to vet out the suitability and acceptance of the future leader without committing him fullly.

The problem with a good succession plan is that it can make it too tempting to dump the current guy. Harper the control freak knows this so my guess is whatever succession plan exists is thrown together in secret by people well outside of the lines of power.

[ReeferMadness]

Harper is between a rock and a hard place. He likely knew something was being planned but did not know the details. We also know that the original plan (help duffy to repay in return for a public apology) made a lot of sense. The plan only went awry because duffy kept demanding more and more (such as no apology and protection from audits). The trouble is such subtle details cannot be explained in the media.

No, the real trouble is that smelly backroom deals can't readily be made presentable to the media. On this point, I cannot believe how easy it is for Harper apologists to accept whatever ridiculous explanation comes out of his mouth. Part of it is that you clearly have no idea (and likely no interest) in how these institutions are supposed to work. The senate does not report up to the Prime Minister. It's an independent body. So, the PMO had no business getting involved in the audit in any way shape or form. Harper is supposed to exercise wisdom before he makes the appointments, not interfere after.

This whole event is just one more example of Harper playing on the ignorance of Canadians (and, in particular, his followers) on how the institutions are supposed to work. Anyone else recall how he convinced millions of unbelievably gullible Canadians that choosing a new PM after a non-confidence vote was a coup-d'etat? I wonder how many of the people on this board swallowed that whopper.

And we'll never know how much Harper knew unless the RCMP dig it out of some emails. And even then, we may not know.

[jacee]

I think Conservatives are getting sick of Harper. Note, uppercase "C". There's still another year and a half until an election. You might have a second choice at the polls before long.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/backbench-revolt-conservatives-bill-would-give-mps-power-to-turf-leader/article15680354/#dashboard/follows/

Wow. This is important. It would strip party leaders of the power to force MP's to toe the party line. Leaders can currently threaten unruly MP's by telling them they won't approve their nomination for the next election.

If passed, the bill from Ontario MP Michael Chong would allow MPs to turf their party leader

...

The bill would also strip party leaders such as Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Thomas Mulcair and Justin Trudeau of the right to approve election candidates and give final say to a local official instead.

...

But sources expect enough Conservatives would support it even if the PMO ordered them not to that it could pass with unanimous opposition support.

If this happens, I will applaud these brave Conservative backbenchers!

It'll allow us to see how the other leaders respond too.

This is the Ottawa version of stripping some powers of the leader, like they did to Rob Ford.

.

Edited November 30, 2013 by jacee

[scribblet]

It makes me laugh how everyone is trying to get harper to step down over something like trying to get the taxpayers money back. It was handled wrong, but it is not a hanging offence. If chretien can steal, and assault proyesyts and make fun of the court ,and use our dime to set up his retirement in china, then why should harper quit???? Who is going to, answer this???

I think it's funny how everyone but the conservatives and people in the party are saying Harper should step down. This is just the media planting the narrative.

Talking about precedents. The police report/docs referred to the Lib MP Judy Sgro's case as a precedent the Senate followed.

page 15 q.

[TimG]

Part of it is that you clearly have no idea (and likely no interest) in how these institutions are supposed to work. The senate does not report up to the Prime Minister. It's an independent body.

The senate is filled with political hacks and has no democratic legitimacy. Harper is the only PM in a long time that has made an effort to reform the senate (by putting the changes to SCC for review).

So, the PMO had no business getting involved in the audit in any way shape or form. Harper is supposed to exercise wisdom before he makes the appointments, not interfere after.

Well if that is the case the blame the media and opposition who conveniently forget that if there is an opportunity to smear the Conservatives. Harper would have ignored it if he believed he would not be held responsible by the media.

And the facts of this non-scandal are so ridiculous.

Harper demanded that Duffy pay expenses that were dubious and apologize.

Duffy refused and claimed they were legitimate.

The PMO tried to broker a deal but were faced with numerous unreasonable demands from Duffy.

In the end Wright provided Duffy with a check to pay back the money owed to the taxpayer.

Duffy faced a full audit.

Edited November 30, 2013 by TimG

[bleeding heart]

Is anyone else here getting bored with the idea that the right wing in general, and PM Harper in particular, are continual victims of some left wing media entity?

[jacee]

Harper would have ignored it if he believed he would not be held responsible by the media.

If the media didn't hold Harper responsible, Duffy would still be charging taxpayers $86/day for meals he ate at home!

[BubberMiley]

This is just the media planting the narrative.

Hmmm...that's just what you said about Rob Ford. Isn't there another, less worn-out talking point you could use?

[eyeball]

Is anyone else here getting bored with the idea that the right wing in general, and PM Harper in particular, are continual victims of some left wing media entity?

Aren't we all victims of it? It's a wonder any of us can think straight given the steady diet of misinformation we're given. You really have to wonder if or when the government will finally do something about it.

[cybercoma]

I think it's funny how everyone but the conservatives and people in the party are saying Harper should step down.

John Robson is a conservative commentator: http://www.ottawasun.com/author/john-robson

David Sachs is the head of the Pontiac Conservative Riding Association: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/op-ed/Stephen+Harper+puts+Conservatives+bind/9211218/story.html

There's two conservatives that think Harper should step down. So I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong.

[cybercoma]

Hmmm...that's just what you said about Rob Ford. Isn't there another, less worn-out talking point you could use?

For a supporters of a party whose ideological and moral standing is behind responsibility and accountability, they sure do spend a lot of time blaming boogeymen.