USA Flies Through China Airspace

[GostHacked]

I remember listening to a program. about five years ago, that said the US and China would be at war by 2018 and that the west coast of the US would be hit by Chinese missiles. Why would China go this route if holds most of US debt and could damage or destroy it financially?

Not sure if anyone has been paying attention but the Bitcoin siphoning China has been doing lately had gotten many Bitcoin entheusiats concerned. I don't quite understand the digital currency, but a few million worth of Bitcoins has been scooped up by China, followed by the US second. It may be a factor in this, but I am not sure how yet.

The USA wont be able to pay for it's military when China and Russia ditch the greenback. Would the USA go to war with China and Russia just to maintaint the greenback as the sole currency to trade oil on the open market?

[Guest]

Japan and South Korea follow the US lead. China responds in kind. Is this how it begins...?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-25144465

[PIK]

China tried and it did not work, this is a non starter.

[Guest Derek L]

I am sure if you knew a little about search engines you could see the pics are already online. The US took satelite pictures of the vessel in the Pacific last year when China was trialing the carrier.

That's my quote........And no, hull shots (A picture taken form a periscope of a ships hull, underwater) of the Chinese carrier would have to be leaked by the USN.

[Guest Derek L]

The USA wont be able to pay for it's military when China and Russia ditch the greenback. Would the USA go to war with China and Russia just to maintaint the greenback as the sole currency to trade oil on the open market?

Didn’t phase them to bad when Germany, Japan and Italy did likewise………And don’t be fooled by the Russians, they have no love for the Chinese.

As I said before, in a conflict with the Americans, Chinese held T-bills will only have value as a source of fuel to keep people warm……IOW, if you blow up the bank the lent you money to pay for your house, no more mortgage payments.

[Guest Derek L]

Japan and South Korea follow the US lead. China responds in kind. Is this how it begins...?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-25144465

The proverbial ball is in the Chinese court……they can ratchet it up by putting troops armed with surface to air missiles on the Islands and mine the waters, fore (as mentioned in the article) the Chinese don’t have the sustained ability to police those Islands with their air force, or the Chinese Government can relent and suffer a serious loss of face domestically…….

But remember, loss of face in a dictatorship leads to bad things for leadership.

[Guest Derek L]

As I said before, in a conflict with the Americans, Chinese held T-bills will only have value as a source of fuel to keep people warm……IOW, if you blow up the bank the lent you money to pay for your house, no more mortgage payments.

And here’s the thread I stated as much…….I think said thread, I started over two years ago, is rather apropos with recent events:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/19588-war-in-south-china-sea/

Like they say about broken clocks

[dre]

Why do you think that a co

And here’s the thread I stated as much…….I think said thread, I started over two years ago, is rather apropos with recent events:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/19588-war-in-south-china-sea/

Like they say about broken clocks

Why do you think that a conflict between china and the US would cause the value of US treasuries instruments to plummet? And you banking analogy is backwards... China is the bank...

Edited November 29, 2013 by dre

[socialist]

I am sure if you knew a little about search engines you could see the pics are already online. The US took satelite pictures of the vessel in the Pacific last year when China was trialing the carrier.

How did you quote something I didn't say? That is wrong.

[Guest Derek L]

Why do you think that a co

Why do you think that a conflict between china and the US would cause the value of US treasuries instruments to plummet? And you banking analogy is backwards... China is the bank...

Reread the post.......I understand my analogy…….If the client (United States) “blows up the bank”, the bank (China) is no longer in a position to collect the debt owed……hence, no more debt.

[GostHacked]

How did you quote something I didn't say? That is wrong.

That's because I quoted Derek L, and not you. Thanks for coming out though.

[Guest Derek L]

And further news:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/29/us-japan-china-patrol-idUSBRE9AR0OM20131129

(Reuters) - China scrambled jets on Friday in response to two U.S. spy planes and 10 Japanese aircraft, including F-15 fighters, entering its new air defense zone over the East China Sea, state news agency Xinhua said, raising the stakes in a standoff with the United States, Japan and South Korea.

China now reacting to the Americans, Japanese and South Koreans, in a crisis of their own making……….They did one thing though, they managed to get the Japanese and South Koreans to agree on a course of action……Well played China

And of note:

Japan's two biggest airlines have defied the identification order since Wednesday at the request of the Japanese government.

Not so sure how I'd feel about flying JAL.......

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden will visit China, Japan and South Korea next week, and will try to ease tensions over the issue, senior U.S. officials said.

Well that settles it.......where can we buy War Bonds?

In a show of support for the military, Chinese President Xi Jinping visited a base in Jinan in eastern China, where he said "military training is critical to beef up the PLA's (People's Liberation Army) war capacities", according to the Xinhau news agency.

Hardly provocative and clearly aimed at domestic consumption….

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, if they can't even control small uninhabited rocks, Taiwan will be an even tougher nut to crack. China will need to rethink this strategy now that far more aircraft will be overflying the airspace than ever before.

[Guest Derek L]

Well, if they can't even control small uninhabited rocks, Taiwan will be an even tougher nut to crack. China will need to rethink this strategy now that far more aircraft will be overflying the airspace than ever before.

The real question is if the Chinese are able to admit fault and give said strategy a reboot…….Face/pride is a dangerous thing…….You couple this with the worldwide economic climate, increased nationalism and a multitude of other factors we face today, and this is very reminiscent of the landscape of the 1930s……..As I said in the other thread, we’re ripe for another kick at the can……I doubt this incident will be the sole precursor, but to borrow an old Chinese idiom, this is surely the first step in a long journey……Or to cite Churchill, this is not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning……..

[Guest Derek L]

Forgot to add, I heard the Japanese have just sortied one of their destroyers to the Islands:

The ship, the JS Murasame takes it's name from a IJN WW II era Destroyer that participated in the opening stages of the Japanese invasion of China in the late 1930s, and during the war itself, took part in the invasion of the Philippines, East Indies and Guadalcanal……as a members of the “Tokyo Express” and during the battle of Ironbottom Sound, it played a part in the sinking and damaging of several USN Destroyers and Cruisers, namely the sinking of the USS Juneau (ala Sullivan Brothers), well also being believed prior to it’s own demise, the sinking of several American subs……..

Face also maters to the Japanese.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Derek L

[bush_cheney2004]

Forgot to add, I heard the Japanese have just sortied one of their destroyers to the Islands:

Krikey...methinks Yamamoto had a better plan than the Chinese. May they live in interesting times.

Edited November 30, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

I can post pictures too!!

[TimG]

The real question is if the Chinese are able to admit fault and give said strategy a reboot

That is not a question - we know the answer: the Chinese government is incapable of admitting fault and it will not reverse its decision. At best this will become one of those ridiculous issues like the status of Taiwan where everyone treats Taiwan as a separate country but does not officially recognize it (i.e. China keeps the zone in place but does not try to enforce it).

[socialist]

That is not a question - we know the answer: the Chinese government is incapable of admitting fault and it will not reverse its decision. At best this will become one of those ridiculous issues like the status of Taiwan where everyone treats Taiwan as a separate country but does not officially recognize it (i.e. China keeps the zone in place but does not try to enforce it).

Could this situation escalate?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/29/210122/analysts-tensions-in-asia-could.html

[Guest Derek L]

That is not a question - we know the answer: the Chinese government is incapable of admitting fault and it will not reverse its decision. At best this will become one of those ridiculous issues like the status of Taiwan where everyone treats Taiwan as a separate country but does not officially recognize it (i.e. China keeps the zone in place but does not try to enforce it).

I think both situations are apples to oranges, based on internal, Peoples Liberation Army perception……The Chinese military has known for decades that it has not the ability to invade Taiwan, yet they believe they are near term the ability to adopt said “defence zones” (an approach taken by the Japanese during the war I might add) and establish a doctrine of anti-access and area denial onto their foes…….Once the establishment (and defence) of both of these zones is concreted, only then could they reproach their “wayward” Province…….

[Guest Derek L]

Could this situation escalate?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/29/210122/analysts-tensions-in-asia-could.html

Yes.

[socialist]

Yes.

Yes.

But it won't. Just more phony fear.

[Guest Derek L]

But it won't. Just more phony fear.

Then why did you ask and post a link to an op-ed that suggest that it could?

[bleeding heart]

I'm afraid that I don't think he's trying to have a genuine discussion. Vote Trudeau.

Edited December 1, 2013 by bleeding heart

[DogOnPorch]

Then why did you ask and post a link to an op-ed that suggest that it could?

Remember, with these types of folks, two B-52s over Bird Pooh Island equals provocative move against a sovereign nation's waters. Two Tu-95s over Canada's Arctic equals something we should get used to.