Justin Trudeau & Red China

[Guest Derek L]

Maybe we can step back on the image based debate on this thread ?

Fair point Michael.

[waldo]

One image from each side seems a good time to point it out...

but... I called Godwin's Law... the thread is over... and clearly, member Derek L has many images remaining in his chamber!

[waldo]

Consensus building like the Chinese Communists do in Tibet?

Or back home?

at your recent and much ballyhooed ConVention, did you rally the troops against Harper's clear admiration for the Chinese?

[Guest Derek L]

at your recent and much ballyhooed ConVention, did you rally the troops against Harper's clear admiration for the Chinese?

Nope, but we sure yammered about the coming eventuality of Canada becoming a signatory of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a free trade deal in scope that in the decades ahead will make NAFTA and the EU-Deal look like chump change…….strangely enough, Trudeau’s heros comrades in the Chinese Communist Party are presently absent from the eventual deal.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Derek L

[Shady]

but... I called Godwin's Law... the thread is over... and clearly, member Derek L has many images remaining in his chamber!

Who are you to call a tread over? You some kinda dictator or something? Lol.

Anyways, nobody's forcing you to post.

[ReeferMadness]

Politically, it was a dumb comment. However, unless Trudeau makes a habit of it, I doubt it will have any impact. Nobody seriously believes that he is advocating for Chinese-style dictatorship. The only people who are alarmed over this are the people who would never vote for him anyway. I hope that this comment gets covered, not for its political value but for what it says about democracy and power.

Deliberately or not, Trudeau has scratched the dust off of a core and timeless issue. How is power wielded and how are decisions that affect us all made? Issues of democracy are largely ignored, both by the established parties (who have a vested interest) and the mainstream media (who also have an established interest). They are left to a relatively few hardy independent thinkers (Andrew Coyne, Jim Harris, Elizabeth May, Preston Manning, Keith Martin come to mind).

It's easy to hold up the model of China as a horror story but western capitalist democracies are hardly the paradigms of freedom they pretend to be. Much of the effective decision-making power is in the hands of wealthy individuals and corporations (in effect, we have plutocracies). Corporations are almost perfect examples of dictatorships. Led by a single, charismatic individual, they exert an enormous degree of control over not only their employees but in many cases their customers (think Apple). We may have freedom of speech but what happens to people who publicly use that freedom to call for changes to public policy that runs counter to the interests of corporations? These people will find their options for earning a living severely curtailed. You don't need a threat of jail time or execution to control how free speech is exercised, there are less severe and more effective ways of co-opting people to act against their own collective interests.

During the cold war, the Soviet model of thought control through state propaganda was rightly pilloried and discredited. However, capitalist thought control (mainly commercial advertising) is far more insidious and far more effective. The big lie that the Soviets pushed (that theirs was a morally superior system based on public good) was exposed and the system rotted from within. The big lie pushed by capitalists (that capitalism is a meritocracy and everyone can be rich) continues to this day.

[waldo]

Nope, but we sure yammered about the coming eventuality of Canada becoming a signatory of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a free trade deal in scope that in the decades ahead will make NAFTA and the EU-Deal look like chump change…….strangely enough, Trudeau’s heros comrades in the Chinese Communist Party are presently absent from the eventual deal.

"comrades"? Really? I realize you're old school but, c'mon... just how many anachronisms can you play in a few short posts?

in any case, too bad you and your convention delegates are so out of the loop... concerning China and the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP). You know, that (also) under negotiation treaty agreement involving the 16 countries and 3.4 billion population of the RCEP. Apparently, as I read, that wascally China is working to position RCEP towards an eventual convergence of RCEP, TPP... and APEC. That China will ultimately join TPP when it interprets RCEP is ripe for the overall convergence. Wascally, indeed!

[Guest Derek L]

"comrades"? Really? I realize you're old school but, c'mon... just how many anachronisms can you play in a few short posts?

in any case, too bad you and your convention delegates are so out of the loop... concerning China and the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP). You know, that (also) under negotiation treaty agreement involving the 16 countries and 3.4 billion population of the RCEP. Apparently, as I read, that wascally China is working to position RCEP towards an eventual convergence of RCEP, TPP... and APEC. That China will ultimately join TPP when it interprets RCEP is ripe for the overall convergence. Wascally, indeed!

Being as this is a thread on Trudeau and Red China, what is the current position of the Trudeau Liberals on Pan-Asiatic Free Trade?

Yes? No? Maybe? Or better yet, maybe Trudeau could choreograph a reproduction of Miss Saigon and the King and I…..

Trudeau’s positions……A true puzzlement if there ever was one.

[Topaz]

IF people on here are so much against China then why are we trading with them, why did Harper go there to talk trade, knowing very well their Human Rights issues. Also, it's not like Harper himself hasn't said something stupid, like he doing now in the House plus the fact he told Canadians it would be a good time to invest in the stock market and then the stock dropped even further.

[waldo]

IF people on here are so much against China then why are we trading with them, why did Harper go there to talk trade, knowing very well their Human Rights issues. Also, it's not like Harper himself hasn't said something stupid, like he doing now in the House plus the fact he told Canadians it would be a good time to invest in the stock market and then the stock dropped even further.

bingo! The OP's contradictions and hypocrisy in this regard are most revealing, most telling!

Harper Conservatives/China <=> Good // Trudeau Liberals/China <=> Bad

[Michael Hardner]

Being as this is a thread on Trudeau and Red China, what is the current position of the Trudeau Liberals on Pan-Asiatic Free Trade?

From last year:

During an afternoon of appearances, Trudeau said he wants to see more trade with China

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/politics/Trudeau+wants+more+trade+with+China+opposes+Gateway+pipeline/7586192/story.html

Also this:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/11/19/justin-trudeau-expanding-trade-with-asia-is-the-next-big-thing/

[Guest Derek L]

From last year:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/politics/Trudeau+wants+more+trade+with+China+opposes+Gateway+pipeline/7586192/story.html

Also this:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/11/19/justin-trudeau-expanding-trade-with-asia-is-the-next-big-thing/

Does he still oppose Northern Gateway despite the Premiers of BC and Alberta reaching a consensus? I ’d assume energy imports are an important commodity the Chinese would be after, so has Trudeau's stance evolved?

[Guest Derek L]

bingo! The OP's contradictions and hypocrisy in this regard are most revealing, most telling!

Harper Conservatives/China <=> Good // Trudeau Liberals/China <=> Bad

I, and I would assume other like minded individuals, have no issue purchasing tube socks or cooking utensils made in China, but that does not mean I desire to emulate their form of Government like Trudeau.

[Shady]

IF people on here are so much against China then why are we trading with them, why did Harper go there to talk trade, knowing very well their Human Rights issues. Also, it's not like Harper himself hasn't said something stupid, like he doing now in the House plus the fact he told Canadians it would be a good time to invest in the stock market and then the stock dropped even further.

I'm not "against" China. I'm just not envious of the power their dictatorship holds like JT.

[ReeferMadness]

I'm not "against" China. I'm just not envious of the power their dictatorship holds like JT.

Become a corporate CEO and you too can be a dictator.

[waldo]

I, and I would assume other like minded individuals, have no issue purchasing tube socks or cooking utensils made in China, but that does not mean I desire to emulate their form of Government like Trudeau.

your desperation is ripe... it reeks! But again, I note the contradiction/hypocrisy of your personal and favoured party position concerning China.

Harper Conservatives/China <=> Good // Trudeau Liberals/China <=> Bad

[Guest Derek L]

your desperation is ripe... it reeks! But again, I note the contradiction/hypocrisy of your personal and favoured party position concerning China.

Harper Conservatives/China <=> Good // Trudeau Liberals/China <=> Bad

Are you suggesting a failing on the part of the Tories for not desiring emulating the Chinese Communist Government?

I seem to recall Trudeau the elder had Communist leanings…….apple has not fallen far from the tree I suppose…

[Big Guy]

I read it over a few times and saw the video. My first reaction was that it was a joke. I still think it was meant as a joke to emphasize the "gotcha" atmosphere of a very divided and partisan media. I think he is playing some members of the media and the Conservative hatchet folks for fools - and it may have worked!!

[Shady]

I read it over a few times and saw the video. My first reaction was that it was a joke. I still think it was meant as a joke to emphasize the "gotcha" atmosphere of a very divided and partisan media. I think he is playing some members of the media and the Conservative hatchet folks for fools - and it may have worked!!

Unfortunately for us, it was anything but a joke.

[Guest Derek L]

Unfortunately for us, it was anything but a joke.

As alluded by several posters, if this statement by Trudeau is but a joke, going forward, how are Canadians to know if future Trudeau proclamations are also ingrained in humour, well lacking in seriousness? I guess it’s the drama teacher in him, striving for a lauded performance

[roy baty]

Another demonstration of how much of a Putz Justin is.

Edited November 10, 2013 by roy baty

[On Guard for Thee]

Unfortunately for us, it was anything but a joke.

And you can confirm that how?

[On Guard for Thee]

At least Trudeau, right or wrong, joke or no, was able to answer a question, which is a damn site more than Harper can seem to manage these days.

[Shady]

And you can confirm that how?

What part was the joke?

[On Guard for Thee]

Now I know the moderators have moved a prior topic along these lines to the media section (and locked it), but I actually fail to see why this should be shunted to the media section (No more than Duffy or Ford I should think) since Trudeau is the leader of the Federal Liberals.

So, if you haven’t heard of Trudeau’s latest gaffe:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/11/08/justin-trudeau-seemingly-admires-chinas-basic-dictatorship-at-toronto-fundraiser/

My goodness, could you imagine if Prime Minister Harper said he admired the Taliban for their staunch adherence to social issues or Mulcair envying the Assad regimes handling of illegal immigration…….That’s just crazy.

Anyways, I think these recent comments will lead to several things:

1. The next CPC political add

2. The resurgence, coupled with Mulcair’s line of questioning in QP on the Senate scandal, of the Federal NDP back into second spot behind the CPC

3. The Blue Liberals and Red Tories that have recently left the Federal Conservatives for the Trudeau led Liberals to return back to the CPC, not only for this reason of course, but what reasonable centrist person could support the inexperience and the level of intelligence of Justin Trudeau?

With the polling over the last couple of months I honestly thought the Trudeau Liberals would supersede the Federal NDP and become the next official opposition in 2015, but with the recent revelations on the part of Trudeau, coupled with other harebrained statements over the last couple of months, once the Trudeau Liberals start actually speaking of actual policy, they’re doomed and I feel (and granted two years till the next election is a long time) they’ll be lucky not to loose seats.

At what point will Federal Liberals start admitting the coronation of Trudeau was a mistake and they should have went with a more capable leader like a Findlay…….or a John Manley……..or a Frank McKenna…..or a Scott Brison etc?

Keep in mind that Harper was found "in contempt of parliament" because he refused to table a report which showed that Canadian soldiers handed Afghan detainees over to the ANA when there was evidence they would be tortured. If you are trying to protect Harper, I wouldn't go anywhere near Afghanistan.