Quebecers and Their Supposed Christian Faith

[dickwhitman]

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Edited July 6, 2016 by dickwhitman

[Michael Hardner]

Look up the Quiet Revolution. The Catholic Church used to basically run the province, and Quebeckers were seen as peasants. A few decades later, the nation of Quebec is thriving within Canada, with high education and quality of life.

They are Catholic in name only, especially the young.

[August1991]

Wonderful thread, and OP.

They are Catholic in name only, especially the young.

I disagree. Modern Quebecers are Catholic without the name.

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The US is a Protestant country. Canada (English and French) is a Catholic country.

While the US has had only one president who was Catholic (JFK), our first federal Catholic PM was a Conservative from Nova Scotia elected in the 19th century. Indeed, all of our federal PMs since Pearson have been Catholic. (Well, Harper is the first WASP since Pearson.)

Edited November 2, 2013 by August1991

[dickwhitman]

Wonderful thread, and OP.

I disagree. Modern Quebecers are Catholic without the name.

Thank you, but how so? The Catholic Church is no fan of the gays, abortion, separation of church and state, or low church attendance as far as I know, and yet many Quebecers are keen on all of those things. In what sense are they Catholic, and how do the disown the label of Catholic?

[Peter F]

Who says Quebeckers are catholic? Micheal Hardner has already pointed out the Quiet Revolution. They aren't a Catholic society anymore.

Quebecers have no need to disown the label Catholic since its some mysterious others who are the ones that applied the label.

[dickwhitman]

Who says Quebeckers are catholic?

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/demo30b-eng.htm

Unless I put a number into my calculator incorrectly, that's about 83% of Quebecers calling themselves Catholic. The number are just a bit old, but I doubt much has changed in the space of eight years or so. On the Quiet Revolution, I thought that that ought to mean they only want separation of church and state. Instead they support the PQ secular charter, which goes too far with respect to non-Catholic religions in my view (that is to say, it would impede civil liberties of some folks unjustly). It also doesn't explain how they don't believe in creationism. Surely both of those things just aren't something religious people ought to support or believe?

[jacee]

Thank you, but how so? The Catholic Church is no fan of the gays, abortion, separation of church and state, or low church attendance as far as I know, and yet many Quebecers are keen on all of those things. In what sense are they Catholic, and how do the disown the label of Catholic?

You could look up Quebec history to find out:

http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/events/pillars.htm

By 1960, many of the institutions that had characterised Quebec had been abolished or had adapted to the North American environment and culture. Even more startling, in a few short years, the Quiet Revolution was to empty the Churches of the province and discard completely the pillar of faith. A thoroughly secular society emerged from it. In this respect, Quebec also became more similar to the rest of the continent.

[dickwhitman]

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Edited July 6, 2016 by dickwhitman

[jacee]

Perhaps then I'm asking the wrong question. Why then do they still brand themselves as Catholic in such large numbers?

Well, again I've looked it up for you:

neither-practising-nor-believing-but-catholic-even-so

According to a 2008 Léger Marketing poll, the proportion of Quebec's nearly six million Catholics who attend mass weekly now stands at 6 per cent, the lowest of any Western society. But therein lies the paradox. That more than 80 per cent of Quebeckers still declare themselves Catholics, according to the 2001 census, the most recent to survey religious affiliation, suggests an attachment to the faith. If not a spiritual one, at least a cultural one.

My personal take on it is that Quebeckers have thoroughly and profoundly rejected the power and control that the Catholic church, prior to 1960, exercised over their daily lives, but retained their claim to their traditions: They've taken control of the church and they use it as they wish for ceremonial purposes.

But the church doesn't tell them what to do anymore: They tell the church.

[dickwhitman]

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[bush_cheney2004]

The article and your statement answer my question. Thank you. I suppose I understand what kind of 'Catholics' Quebecers are then.

Historically, religion and language are the strongest defenses that Quebec has used to preserve their cultural and political identity. Such concepts are enshrined in Canada's Constitution Act going back to 1867.

[jacee]

My apologies if I seem demanding to the point of being discourteous. I didn't mean to sound impatient with anyone.

The article and your statement answer my question. Thank you. I suppose I understand what kind of 'Catholics' Quebecers are then.

They're Catholics who no longer allow 'the church' to steal, torture and kill the babies of unwed mothers ... for financial gain.

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/society/youth/the-duplessis-orphans/medical-experimentation.html

Edited November 2, 2013 by jacee

[Shady]

They're Catholics who no longer allow 'the church' to steal, torture and kill the babies of unwed mothers ... for financial gain.http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/society/youth/the-duplessis-orphans/medical-experimentation.html

Yes, now the government takes care of that.

[Shady]

Regardless, Quebec's ethnic cleansing of religion has left that province in atrophy for decades.

[jacee]

Regardless, Quebec's ethnic cleansing of religion ...

Just a slight exaggeration, shady.

Nobody got killed.

It was just spontaneous actions of the people, absenting themselves from churches.

Nobody's business but their own.

.

Edited November 3, 2013 by jacee

[dickwhitman]

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Edited July 6, 2016 by dickwhitman

[Peter F]

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/demo30b-eng.htm

Unless I put a number into my calculator incorrectly, that's about 83% of Quebecers calling themselves Catholic. The number are just a bit old, but I doubt much has changed in the space of eight years or so. On the Quiet Revolution, I thought that that ought to mean they only want separation of church and state. Instead they support the PQ secular charter, which goes too far with respect to non-Catholic religions in my view (that is to say, it would impede civil liberties of some folks unjustly). It also doesn't explain how they don't believe in creationism. Surely both of those things just aren't something religious people ought to support or believe?

Ah. I see. Well you got me there for I did not really fathom that Quebecers still self identify as being Catholic. All my inlaws are Quebecois and I know that the only time any of them (outside of BelleMaman) see the inside of the many rather big churches there was for baptisms and funerals.

So it surprises me that identifying as Catholic still holds water with them.

Jaycee and BC pointed out the heritage aspect which makes sense.

One learns something every day or so I'm told.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Peter F

[Peter F]

I suspect even the numbers for self-identification as Catholic will fall drastically also. Where all my inlaws had some actual experience with Catholicism (schools, first communions, Mass) when they were children, their children have had no interaction with the Church at all outside of the baptism thing when they were babies and Grandpapa's funeral...and partying in abandoned Churches.

[dickwhitman]

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Edited July 6, 2016 by dickwhitman

[Bonam]

Regardless, Quebec's ethnic cleansing of religion has left that province in atrophy for decades.

Ethnic cleansing? Seriously? Do people really think that by throwing around terms like ethnic cleansing, massacre, genocide, they can make something seem worse than it really was, rather than merely depriving these terms of their meaning?

Anyway... the vast majority of people who identify as any kind of Christian in most Western countries are pretty close to being irreligious, with only nominal ties to the church and a fondness for preserving certain traditions, but no more than that. The difference between your typical atheist and your typical Christian is only that the atheist is honest in how they label themselves (though there are of course plenty of more devout Christians too).

[dickwhitman]

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[Topaz]

Everything said so far, I think can also apply to any other Christian faith and I think a faith is more an individual view than belong to a certain church in today's society.

[dickwhitman]

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[Bonam]

I'm not sure about that. Maybe things are different up in Seattle.

I said "most" Western countries. The US is a notable exception, in that there is certainly a large number of religious people that really do believe in their religion, rather than just nominally following traditions and preserving a sense of community identity.

But it seems to me that Quebecers are afflicted with this silliness much worse than anyone in the United States.

What silliness? The picking and choosing of parts of Christianity that they like? Why is that silly? Is your position that people should embrace the doctrines of their religions in whole?

[dickwhitman]

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Edited July 6, 2016 by dickwhitman