guyser Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 That would actually be anyone everyone in fact on the planet, not just Canada. Cant agree with that eyeball. Some places dont uphold that, likely only third world trouble spots. I seriously doubt there is due process in Darfur. Quote
GostHacked Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 What sort of 'act' was hiding Bin Laden? Buddy-buddy? Pakistan was deliberately hiding Bin Laden? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Anyone, sworn enemy or not, on CDN soil is granted due process. No matter the crime or allegation of same. Not many folks eating drone on Canadian soil. Do you have an example of a terrorist 'leader' getting waxed on Canadian soil w/o 'due process'? Meanwhile, the rest of the peanut gallery is living a fantasy. It was NOT a war crime to assassinate Heydrich in his car...nor Bin Laden watching his porn collection. Western porn...no doubt. Awwww...poor Reinhard...murdered by diddlers. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Pakistan was deliberately hiding Bin Laden? Uhhhh...yeah. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Your hatred of America is well documented here at MLW. So why should I care that you have a poor opinion of them? It's not like you've ever had a good opinion of them and they suddenly (gasp) fell from your divine grace. Hatred of America? No. Hatred for the US Government? Yes. Best you understand the difference when posting. Israel needs to come clean with it's nuclear offensive capabilities. They can't really bitch about Iran getting a nuke if Israel really does have them. The US used atomic weapons on Japan and is advocating for Iran to not have nukes, but yet will NOT give up their own. The reason we get is for defense and as a deterrent to other nations from attacking. Shockingly, those are the same reasons Iran would want to get a nuke. Worked for North Korea. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Cite? Are you daft or what? Certainly Pakistan knew Bin Laden was living right near their army base in Abbatobad. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Hatred of America? No. Hatred for the US Government? Yes. Best you understand the difference when posting. Israel needs to come clean with it's nuclear offensive capabilities. They can't really bitch about Iran getting a nuke if Israel really does have them. The US used atomic weapons on Japan and is advocating for Iran to not have nukes, but yet will NOT give up their own. The reason we get is for defense and as a deterrent to other nations from attacking. Shockingly, those are the same reasons Iran would want to get a nuke. Worked for North Korea. You can pretend it's just the government. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jbg Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Pakistan was deliberately hiding Bin Laden?Obviously. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted October 8, 2013 Report Posted October 8, 2013 Are you daft or what? Certainly Pakistan knew Bin Laden was living right near their army base in Abbatobad. They might have known it, but to say that Pakistan was deliberately trying to protect them? This is why I asked for a cite. IN most cases I have at least provided a link and attempted to explain myself. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Posted October 9, 2013 I think some long for the day when Western Civilization falls...the root of all that is evil on this planet. They'll be immune to the fall...of course. What's evil is also letting one powerful country do all the evil (and illegal, according to itself) things it wants. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Posted October 9, 2013 Oh boy. Only in the perverted since of Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" are Western countries rogue states. What do you mean? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Posted October 9, 2013 You can pretend it's just the government. Totally unsubstantiated claim. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
jbg Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 Only in the perverted since of Orwell's "Ministry of Truth" are Western countries rogue states.What do you mean?To my mind, a "rogue state" is one like Syria that uses poison gas against its own citizens, and has no real system of justice. Advanced Western states just don't fill the bill. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Moonlight Graham Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) To my mind, a "rogue state" is one like Syria that uses poison gas against its own citizens, and has no real system of justice. Advanced Western states just don't fill the bill. The US used poison chemicals (agent orange) on its own citizens and the citizens of another state. To me, a "rogue state" is one that is constantly breaking international law and conventions and norms, even those it signs and even helps create, that invades or attacks other states unilaterally and without UNSC approval, that tortures people, assassinates people in other countries, supports illegal coups of many different governments, supports dictators, has little respect for the sovereignty of other states etc. Western countries don't fear themselves or other Western states, thus don't consider themselves or Western states as "rogue states", because their illegal and immoral actions aren't usually targeted at other Western countries. That doesn't excuse the injustice of their actions. Edited October 9, 2013 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
DogOnPorch Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 What's evil is also letting one powerful country do all the evil (and illegal, according to itself) things it wants. China? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 China's money certainly helps enable it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
carepov Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Due process is reserved for citizens of my country and perhaps my allies. Not my sworn enemies. This approach (eg: Guantanamo Bay) has backfired in the War on Terror and made us less secure: 1. It has divided the West - when we should all be on the same side 2. It has likely created more enemies of the West 3. I see no benefit to foregoing due process for sworn enemies Edited October 9, 2013 by carepov Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) This approach (eg: Guantanamo Bay) has backfired in the War on Terror and made us less secure: 1. It has divided the West - when we should all be on the same side 2. It has likely created more enemies of the West 3. I see no benefit to foregoing due process for sworn enemies And only a state of peace in Canada allows such a luxurious world view. What will be interesting is if a global war occurs...as it has in the past...how many folks like yourself will attempt neutrality or empathy towards the enemy. Now there's a word you don't hear in PC Land. Enemy. You don't have any 'enemies'. Do you? Edited October 9, 2013 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Moonlight Graham Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Posted October 9, 2013 Due process is reserved for citizens of my country and perhaps my allies. Not my sworn enemies. Too bad you live under Canadian laws then, which disagree with you. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
carepov Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 And only a state of peace in Canada allows such a luxurious world view. What will be interesting is if a global war occurs...as it has in the past...how many folks like yourself will attempt neutrality or empathy towards the enemy. Now there's a word you don't hear in PC Land. Enemy. You don't have any 'enemies'. Do you? Wrong. Of course, our enemies are radical Islamic terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda -and those that support them. You are being narrow-minded in thinking that this war is a military battle. It is or course partially a military battle but is it also very much an ideological battle. A huge advantage that we in the West have (for the most part) is respect for human rights including due process. When we violate human rights we undermine our ideological advantage and therefore we are shooting ourselves in the foot. I am not neutral and I have no sympathy for the enemy. Empathy towards the enemy is key to defeating them, as per Lesson #1 of "The Fog of War" Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Wrong. Of course, our enemies are radical Islamic terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda -and those that support them. You are being narrow-minded in thinking that this war is a military battle. It is or course partially a military battle but is it also very much an ideological battle. A huge advantage that we in the West have (for the most part) is respect for human rights including due process. When we violate human rights we undermine our ideological advantage and therefore we are shooting ourselves in the foot. I am not neutral and I have no sympathy for the enemy. Empathy towards the enemy is key to defeating them, as per Lesson #1 of "The Fog of War" McNamara is one to talk...lol. Edited October 9, 2013 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
cybercoma Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 How do you feel about other states using your shoot first and ask questions later diplomacy, DOP? They already do. Of course they do, but how do you feel about it? Did I miss where you responded to this, DOP? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 Too bad you live under Canadian laws then, which disagree with you. Canadian Halifax bomber displaying its bomb mission over the Third Reich. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
carepov Posted October 9, 2013 Report Posted October 9, 2013 McNamara is one to talk...lol. Do you have any comments on what I actually wrote? In order to defeat your enemies don't you think that it is important to understand them, their motivations, their strategies, etc...? Quote
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