Innovation in Public Schools

[Bonam]

That shortage is an excuse by the baby boomers to not give a chance to younger professionals and prolong their own retirements. It's BS. There is no shortage. There's just a ton of unemployment amongst young adults with full qualifications.

No the shortage is not BS. There are hundreds of thousands of unfilled positions just in engineering alone, and then there's all the other technical fields. Unemployment is at historic norms or even lows for people with useful qualifications, and real wages are at all time highs. But yes, the young adults that are "fully qualified" with history degrees, "global studies" degrees, "environmental studies" degrees, etc, are indeed experiencing high rates of unemployment, as a result of their degree choice.

[cybercoma]

Yup. That's it. Those are the only people experiencing unemployment. Do me a favour. Head to Windsor, ON and you tell the unemployed there that their "global studies" degrees aren't useful.

[Bonam]

Yup. That's it. Those are the only people experiencing unemployment. Do me a favour. Head to Windsor, ON and you tell the unemployed there that their "global studies" degrees aren't useful.

No thanks, I'm fine right here in Seattle, WA, which with its diverse and prosperous economy basically didn't even notice the recession that hit the rest of the US, and is continuing to generate thousands of jobs and continually rising wages. If Windsor, ON, is so bad, people can and should move to where the jobs are. Western provinces in Canada apparently can't import Chinese workers fast enough, I'm sure a few Ontarians could find jobs too.

Look, even at the worst of the recession, unemployment rates were below 10%. That means over 9 out of 10 people that are looking for a job, have a job. It's really not that hard, and it never was.

[jacee]

No the shortage is not BS. There are hundreds of thousands of unfilled positions just in engineering alone, and then there's all the other technical fields. Unemployment is at historic norms or even lows for people with useful qualifications, and real wages are at all time highs. But yes, the young adults that are "fully qualified" with history degrees, "global studies" degrees, "environmental studies" degrees, etc, are indeed experiencing high rates of unemployment, as a result of their degree choice.

The jobs (out west in the resource sector?) you cite are typically for qualified and experienced engineers, etc. who can 'hit the ground running'.

Not many employers are looking for inexperienced new grads.

It's no surprise that Ontario youth unemployment is high:

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/4003786/

The CCPA offers two possible reasons for why Ontario now has the worst youth job climate of any province outside the Maritimes: The national economic shift away from manufacturing towards resource extraction, and post-recession government austerity measures.Ontario has Canadas largest manufacturing sector, so the hollowing out of Canadian manufacturing most severely impacts both youth and adult employment, the report said.That appears to be reflected in the fact that Ontarios manufacturing centres, such as Windsor and Oshawa, also have the province's highest youth unemployment rates.

Not to mention the spinoff industries, retail, housing, entertainment and everything else that suffers due to the collapse of manufacturing.

It's just not as simple as 'they have the wrong degrees'.

Edited September 28, 2013 by jacee

[Shady]

This IPad nonsense is a complete waste of good money. The Los Angeles school board spent a billion dollars on them for students, and are now in the process of taking them back. Students hacked the iPads to use to get to restricted websites, download music and movies, email, text and online gamble. They aren't necessary.

[jacee]

This IPad nonsense is a complete waste of good money. The Los Angeles school board spent a billion dollars on them for students, and are now in the process of taking them back. Students hacked the iPads to use to get to restricted websites, download music and movies, email, text and online gamble. They aren't necessary.

Just a blip. They'll sort it out. They're being a bit extreme about the restrictions on access.

Computer are kinda necessary these days!

You'd be the guy on the horse saying "Cars aren't necessary." back when, I suspect.

[Mighty AC]

Pencils are next!! Students perennially write notes to other students, doodle in class and draw graffiti on bathroom walls.

No tech is absolutely necessary, but it is extremely beneficial. In fact, it would be a disservice not to use technology in the classroom. My problem with iPads isn't the potential misuse, it's the cost. They're just not a good value. Android tabs, Chromebooks and traditional laptops make far more sense. Misuse can be minimized with better teaching practices.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Mighty AC

[Shady]

Just a blip. They'll sort it out. They're being a bit extreme about the restrictions on access.

Computer are kinda necessary these days!

You'd be the guy on the horse saying "Cars aren't necessary." back when, I suspect.

No, cars are fine. So are iPads, just buy them yourself. They're not necessary. The reason kids don't know shit in school anymore, isn't because there's no iPads.

[guyser]

No, cars are fine. So are iPads, just buy them yourself. They're not necessary. The reason kids don't know shit in school anymore, isn't because there's no iPads.

Grampa... Nap time.

[jacee]

No, cars are fine. So are iPads, just buy them yourself.

That puts disadvantaged students at further disadvantage.

This is public education.

They're not necessary. The reason kids don't know shit in school anymore, isn't because there's no iPads.

I think it's safe to say they know more shit than you do.

[bleeding heart]

Well, it's true that you never hear kids suggesting that Donald Trump would make a good President.

[Argus]

No the shortage is not BS. There are hundreds of thousands of unfilled positions just in engineering alone, and then there's all the other technical fields. Unemployment is at historic norms or even lows for people with useful qualifications, and real wages are at all time highs. But yes, the young adults that are "fully qualified" with history degrees, "global studies" degrees, "environmental studies" degrees, etc, are indeed experiencing high rates of unemployment, as a result of their degree choice.

That is way too blanket a statement. There are all kinds of people who never got a chance to go to university because of a wide variety of reasons who've had lifelong work suddenly terminated by economic disruptions. Auto makers being one who could find no work for years during the recession as production shut down and moved offshore. Even professionals who had worked for decades found their jobs gone and looking for more in their late forties and fifties. Not easy to find work when companies prefer younger, cheaper workers, and there are so many workers available.

[Shady]

Grampa... Nap time.

I'm younger than you are gramps. Just more responsible with taxpayer money, and have an understanding that ipads are completely unnecessary for learning the basic most important things while in school. An ipad bought today, is a paperweight 3 years from now. Waste of money.

[jacee]

I'm younger than you are gramps. Just more responsible with taxpayer money, and have an understanding that ipads are completely unnecessary for learning the basic most important things while in school. An ipad bought today, is a paperweight 3 years from now. Waste of money.

Reading your post, I find myself wondering what kind of flack public education would get if kids graduated WITHOUT being able to use a computer.

Certainly colleges, universities and most employers would not be amused!

We can be thankful you're not in charge!

[Shady]

Reading your post, I find myself wondering what kind of flack public education would get if kids graduated WITHOUT being able to use a computer.

Certainly colleges, universities and most employers would not be amused!

We can be thankful you're not in charge!

LOL, you think we need to buy ipads for every student in order for them to know how to use a computer? News flash. They use computer everyday in their non-school time. They use smart phones too, and gasp, no school needed to buy those smart phones for them in order for them to figure how to use it!

[jacee]

LOL, you think we need to buy ipads for every student in order for them to know how to use a computer? News flash. They use computer everyday in their non-school time. They use smart phones too, and gasp, no school needed to buy those smart phones for them in order for them to figure how to use it!

Some of them can afford those things.

Others can't.

That's why publicly funded schools are now supplying them to EVERY student: To level the playing field, so EVERY student learns the necessary computer skills, not just those lucky enough to come from affluent families that have computers and smart phones.

Get it now?

Edited October 6, 2013 by jacee

[Bonam]

Reading your post, I find myself wondering what kind of flack public education would get if kids graduated WITHOUT being able to use a computer.

Certainly colleges, universities and most employers would not be amused!

We can be thankful you're not in charge!

You don't need to "teach" kids to use a computer for them to be able to use a computer (and an iPad isn't a computer anyway). Kids use computers because it's fun, they can do fun things, talk with their friends, find and share information, play games, watch videos, etc. For any kid who has a computer at home, nothing they are gonna teach about "computer use" in school is ever gonna compare to what they already know. An average 5 year old kid knows about 100x as much about computers as the average 55 year old teacher.

As for kids from "non-affluent" families that don't have computers:

- Computers are freely available in the school libraries and school computer labs and if the intent is to provide computer knowledge to those who don't have it, there should be an optional/targeted class in their use (which there indeed was when I went to school and it worked perfectly fine)

- Modifying the curriculum to benefit only the tiny tiny percentage of people who don't have electronic devices at home at the cost of wasting time for the ~99% of other students is a bad idea

- Spending money on providing all kids with expensive iPads (or training ancient teachers in how to use these new devices when most of them can barely figure out how to check email) is not a good use of scarce public education resources, when these same resources could instead be spent to hire more teachers and reduce class sizes, to improve aging school facilities, to renovate unsafe old school buildings, or to add new curriculum components that most students aren't already fully exposed to at home

Edited October 7, 2013 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

Some of them can afford those things.

Others can't.

That's why publicly funded schools are now supplying them to EVERY student: To level the playing field, so EVERY student learns the necessary computer skills, not just those lucky enough to come from affluent families that have computers and smart phones.

Get it now?

Can the education system afford to buy them for the kids?

[jacee]

Can the education system afford to buy them for the kids?

Can they afford not to?

Tablets can be pretty cheap and they can replace many other books and school supplies and (gulp) libraries.

I expect that question was raised when erasable slates and chalk were replaced by pen and paper. Good thing they went ahead anyway.

It's not just about learning computer skills, but about using a computer for all learning, all subjects for lessons, research, writing & all other assignments.

A computer was my main work tool for 30 years. Time the kids caught up to the real world!

Edited October 7, 2013 by jacee

[Mighty AC]

Tech in the classroom is a necessity if we are to differentiate education to better meet the needs of more students. Greater 1:1 access to devices is a potential benefit, but iPads are still an irresponsible use of money. There are devices that offer much better value.

Teaching kids to use current technology is unnecessary but using technology to better teach required skills is a requirement.

[PIK]

Present day public schools are MUCH more challenging than the schools of the 50s to 80s. Most of the criticism comes from people who haven't stepped foot in a school in decades. They also may be jealous that today's learners are MUCH more prepared for the world than they were. There seems to be a lot of people like that on this forum.

I run a business where I hire young people, and no they are not prepared. We must get back to the basics of learning to read, write and add, which these kids can barely do .Time for teachers to start thinking about the kids again ,instead of just fighting governments.

[jacee]

I run a business where I hire young people, and no they are not prepared. We must get back to the basics of learning to read, write and add, which these kids can barely do .Time for teachers to start thinking about the kids again ,instead of just fighting governments.

Pay better, get better skills.

[Michael Hardner]

I run a business where I hire young people, and no they are not prepared. We must get back to the basics of learning to read, write and add, which these kids can barely do .Time for teachers to start thinking about the kids again ,instead of just fighting governments.

Sounds like a false dilemma to me.

But, let's look at your experience here: what kind of young people do you hire ? What education do they have ?

[Icebound]

When it comes to "innovation"... the greatest innovators are the ones who went out and experimented and made mistakes.

There will always be students who do that.... But computers allow students to AVOID mistakes. They can use their computer to "calculate" the correct "answer", or to "find" the "correct answer", or even to PLAGIARIZE the correct answer. (you can do all that without computers, but it takes longer )

A computer allows them to be one more level removed from the actual "problem" that they are supposed to be solving.

And because of that... computers may neither help nor hurt "real" education... they might help us get an "answer" more quickly, but they will do nothing to help us apply that answer to a real-life problem.... unless we actually get up from the keyboard/touch-screen and go out and EXPERIENCE that problem, make several mistakes trying to solve it... and then come up with a total innovation that did not come from the classroom specifically, but from classroom, experience, experimentation, intuition and maybe even a little bit of good luck.

[Bonam]

but they will do nothing to help us apply that answer to a real-life problem....

The real ability to understand and solve problems and implement said solutions is an exceedingly rare skill. That's why those of us that can do it can get jobs so easily while everyone else whines about unemployment

Edited October 15, 2013 by Bonam