Racism or Secularism? Quebec looking to ban all religious garb.

[DogOnPorch]

Oh...and what's the penalty for leaving Islam?

[g_bambino]

So does that mean a province, let's say Alberta, can pass a law making Same-sex marriage illegal? Opps no they can't!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Thirty-three_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms.

Except, in this case, values and secularism aren't solely within the jurisdiction of the federal parliament, whereas the definition of marriage is. The notwithstanding clause didn't apply in the Alberta example not because Alberta can't use it, but because the Alberta parliament was legislating beyond its reach.

[carepov]

Oh...and what's the penalty for leaving Islam?

In Canada, there is none.

[Boges]

In Canada, there is none.

Well legally there isn't. But there have been honour killings in Canada.

[DogOnPorch]

In Canada, there is none.

In Canada there's no draft...at the moment. But...being there's no compulsion in Islam, what's the penalty under Islamic law for apostasy?

[carepov]

No...what Mohammed said earlier in his career is superseded by what he said later. The Quran, according to Islam, is the verbatim words of God and is not subject to revision. In fact, the major differences between Islamic sects involve who was supposed to succeed Mohammed rather than the contents of the Quran. The only variations are the various non-Arabic translations...which is why it is taught in Arabic. But you knew that...

God dictated the Quran to Mohammed after a flight from Arabia on a winged beast to the 'furthest mosque'. In tow was the angel Gabriel. From the furthest mosque, Mohammed's ascended to heaven to meet God. Later, after Mohammed's death, Omar's conquering armies overran the Byzantines including Jerusalem claiming the Jewish Temple ruin was the furthest mosque...actual location never mentioned. This bit of iconoclasm is how Jerusalem became 'the third holiest place in Islam'.

Interesting. This is the first time I've heard about more recent writings superseding prior writings in the Quran. Forgive me if I am sceptical but I will look for a credible source before believing it. Also, you say that all the peaceful writings in the Quran came before the "nasty bits", again I will need to verify.

Why do you think that Islam is so different in different regions of the world? (Turkey, Arabia, N.Africa, Iran, Afg, S.Asia, SE Asia, and the West)

[DogOnPorch]

Interesting. This is the first time I've heard about more recent writings superseding prior writings in the Quran. Forgive me if I am sceptical but I will look for a credible source before believing it. Also, you say that all the peaceful writings in the Quran came before the "nasty bits", again I will need to verify.

Why do you think that Islam is so different in different regions of the world? (Turkey, Arabia, N.Africa, Iran, Afg, S.Asia, SE Asia, and the West)

You can be skeptical all you wish. There's this thing called the internet....

Is Islam practiced differently? What language is spoken in Indonesia? In what language do Indonesians recite the Quran?

[DogOnPorch]

So...have you deduced the penalty for apostasy in Islam yet?

[Black Dog]

So...have you deduced the penalty for apostasy in Islam yet?

What's the relevance to the topic at hand?

[DogOnPorch]

What's the relevance to the topic at hand?

Carepov made the standard Religion of Peace comment that there is no compulsion in Islam.

[carepov]

In Canada there's no draft...at the moment. But...being there's no compulsion in Islam, what's the penalty under Islamic law for apostasy?

Islamic Law calls for death for apostasy.

Obviously this is a terrible Law and it supports my argument that it is delusional to think that Islam will dominate.

By the way: "There are more Muslims leaving Islam today than there are new converts joining it."

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/People_Who_Left_Islam

And again, some Islamic communities challenge the interpretations of the Law and outright disagree:

"Simple apostacy, which is not aggravated by rebellion, treason or grave disorderliness, is not punishable in any manner in this life. Islam guarantees complete freedom of conscience and of belief. A disbeliever and a simple apostate stand in the same category; neither of them is liable to any penalty in this life."

https://www.alislam.org/books/apostacy/17.html

[Black Dog]

Carepov made the standard Religion of Peace comment that there is no compulsion in Islam.

Again: what's the relevance to the topic at hand?

[DogOnPorch]

Islamic Law calls for death for apostasy.

Obviously this is a terrible Law and it supports my argument that it is delusional to think that Islam will dominate.

By the way: "There are more Muslims leaving Islam today than there are new converts joining it."

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/People_Who_Left_Islam

And again, some Islamic communities challenge the interpretations of the Law and outright disagree:

"Simple apostacy, which is not aggravated by rebellion, treason or grave disorderliness, is not punishable in any manner in this life. Islam guarantees complete freedom of conscience and of belief. A disbeliever and a simple apostate stand in the same category; neither of them is liable to any penalty in this life."

https://www.alislam.org/books/apostacy/17.html

Islam already dominates 1/4 of the planet and is the fastest growing of all the religions. They think Sharia Law is jus' fine.

[DogOnPorch]

Again: what's the relevance to the topic at hand?

Carepov answered already...but thanks for your comment.

[Black Dog]

Islam already dominates 1/4 of the planet and is the fastest growing of all the religions. They think Sharia Law is jus' fine.

Only a small number of Islamic states actually have sharia law on the books. Again: that's in countries where the population is more or less completely Muslim.

[DogOnPorch]

Only a small number of Islamic states actually have sharia law on the books. Again: that's in countries where the population is more or less completely Muslim.

Tell that to those with death fatwas on their heads. Perhaps you can pay for their security if it's a non-issue outside of totally Islamic states.

[Black Dog]

Tell that to those with death fatwas on their heads. Perhaps you can pay for their security if it's a non-issue outside of totally Islamic states.

Moving the goal posts again? Or are you just forgetting your argument? Do I need to explain it to you so you know what you are talking about?

[DogOnPorch]

Moving the goal posts again? Or are you just forgetting your argument? Do I need to explain it to you so you know what you are talking about?

Moving the goalposts? I thought we were discussing compulsion in Islam.

You are apparently the one keen on portraying Islam as just another religion. So is Ayaan Hirsi Ali a good Muslim? Why has she been singled out for death? Surely not for leaving Islam as she now lives a life free of worry in the West where Islam's laws can't reach her.

[Black Dog]

Moving the goalposts? I thought we were discussing compulsion in Islam.

We were discussing your theory that Islam will take over and dominate the west.

You are apparently the one keen on portraying Islam as just another religion. So is Ayaan Hirsi Ali a good Muslim? Why has she been singled out for death? Surely not for leaving Islam as she now lives a life free of worry in the West where Islam's laws can't reach her.

I'm not particularly keen to portray Islam as much of anything. I'm simply trying to get a handle on the belief that Islam will come to dominate the west, a belief that in your case is based on a combination of credulity ("it says it will!"), simplistic demographic projections, and an underlying disdain for the strength and resiliency of western institutions.

[bleeding heart]

That's my view as well.

Oh...also, I'm not shivering ion abject terror about the looming shadow of the Islamist Caliphate. So that helps.

[DogOnPorch]

We were discussing your theory that Islam will take over and dominate the west.

I'm not particularly keen to portray Islam as much of anything. I'm simply trying to get a handle on the belief that Islam will come to dominate the west, a belief that in your case is based on a combination of credulity ("it says it will!"), simplistic demographic projections, and an underlying disdain for the strength and resiliency of western institutions.

Goodness knows what you thought carepov and I were discussing.

Resiliency of the West, eh? How's Detroit this morning anyways?

Islam's goal is to rule all. Is that a lie?

[DogOnPorch]

That's my view as well.

Oh...also, I'm not shivering ion abject terror about the looming shadow of the Islamist Caliphate. So that helps.

Nor should you be. Islam is a religion of both peace and compassion towards one's fellow human beings. It's a lie that it seeks to create the Ummah across the globe. No individual Muslim would be so crass as to attempt to further the Ummah by either peaceful of violent methods. It's simply not part of the reclusive nature of the ideology.

[Black Dog]

Goodness knows what you thought carepov and I were discussing.

Resiliency of the West, eh? How's Detroit this morning anyways?

Better than Cairo, Damascus, Rafah....

Islam's goal is to rule all. Is that a lie?

It could be my goal to be Queen of England, but wishing will not make it so.

[bleeding heart]

Nor should you be. Islam is a religion of both peace and compassion towards one's fellow human beings. It's a lie that it seeks to create the Ummah across the globe. No individual Muslim would be so crass as to attempt to further the Ummah by either peaceful of violent methods. It's simply not part of the reclusive nature of the ideology.

My opinion of Islam--which is low--is on record on MLW. So your caricature doesn't even reach the standard of a shotgun blast in the dark.

I'm simply not screeching in fright as a point of political convenience, as are the "Muslims are coming" doomsayers.

[DogOnPorch]

Better than Cairo, Damascus, Rafah....

It could be my goal to be Queen of England, but wishing will not make it so.

Detroit, as you know, is bankrupt. Stray packs of dogs roam the streets attacking citizens. Murder is commonplace. Police response times are measured in hours if not days...weeks...never. So when are you moving there?

The Quran states...once again...that its goal is to dominate all other religions. You can try as you will to belittle this element of Islam but it won't change the fact that Mohammed...and God...made this claim.

My opinion of Islam--which is low--is on record on MLW. So your caricature doesn't even reach the standard of a shotgun blast in the dark.

I'm simply not screeching in fright as a point of political convenience, as are the "Muslims are coming" doomsayers.

You can portray me any way you wish. In reality, you know I'm unlikely to be screeching in fright at anything. But, it's a handy tactic...personal attacks. I can see why you like to employ them.