Do you really believe anything Bush says?

[I miss Reagan]

The topic of the Iraq war is so redundant, and I've grown tired of going through it again and again. But I'll oblige you. I support fighting the war on their doorstep, not ours. The world believed Iraq to have and to be creating WMD. The US stood to lose the most from Iraq have WMD. While the world believed Iraq had WMD Russia, France and Germany didn't want to go after them. Why would they, Iraq wasn't threatening them and they were making a lot of money dealing illegally with them. The rest of the world had sanctions against Iraq which did nothing but starve and kill thousands of innocent people slowly. So in a nut shell I'm in favour of Bush doctrine which is now becoming Putin doctrine as well now that Russia is realizing what kind of people we're fighting.

Thanks for obliging me ( I just joined) I can only assume that you have had to defend this assinine decision countless times. Let me deconstruct your points if I may. The World did not believe that Iraq had WMD, even after Powell tried to convince us, some countries bought in most didn't, have you ever seen the list of countries in the so called 'Coallition of the Willing" ?

I'd very much like to disagree with the notion that you infere that other countries, specifically Germany, Russia and France dealt illegally with them... lets see some proof, I can only imagine what you may have... By the way, did the US not originally deal with the Taliban and arm and train them?

Russia is dealing with Checnyan Muslims that should be left alone to govern themselves ( and no I am not defending them) just like the other former Soviet countries, perhaps the policies there, in Israel and in Iraq dictate the kind of response that these people feel is appropriate??

You can have the last word on this one. I'm not going round and round again on this. See if someone else will bite.

[I miss Reagan]

The comparison cuts both ways. The Right in the States hated Clinton as much, if not more, than the left today hates Bush.

Yes the right was out to get him. And true Clinton was a polarizer but that wasn't my point. My point was Bush haters didn't hold Clinton to the same standard.

Can you offer any evidence that any of the insurgents are involved with Al Qaeda?

Insurgents, the leftist media loves that euphemism. Anyway yes Al zarqawi from Jordan is it. There is no argument, these so called freedom fighters are Al Qaeda.

"I don't think you can win [the War on Terror]."

- President Bush, 8/30/04

How about the full context of that quote and then Bush's clarification the next day.

[I miss Reagan]

As for Bush's Guard service:

"...That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).

Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”

So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement."

Bush's National Guard Years

[April]

"April, you mean you voted for, ulp, Bob Dole?  Jnr's Dad?  You didn't vote for Ronnie, did you?

And who did you vote for in 2000?  Nader?"

okay I'll play...just because you seem so darn interested in my life!Gosh I am flattered!

It simply means I woke the hell up in the 90's just in time to re-elect CLINTON...and yes I did vote the first time around for daddy Bush(Ronnie Raygun..ah NO!)...see my parents always voted republican so I just followed suit and did the ditto monkey thing.It was a learning experience...the year I voted for daddy Bush my BIG BUSINESS employer told us we had to...because Bush was good to them...and explained how it would trickle down to us...yeah right sure it did*rolls eyes* I fell for it...did the right thing for them never once listening to a word the man uttered.Then one day on a fluke I started to listen...and went WTF?! I voted for this man??!!...It was during the campaign for the next election...and I was a Clinton hater because republicans said I had to be...so I followed. But after the last WTF?! I decided to listen to Clinton and it was over....

I threw away my ditto monkey suit...and realized debating, asking questions was a good thing.

Those days were over...I am not registered to either party in my state I can cross party lines and I would if a decent republican stepped up to the plate...problem is the ONLY one I have seen since awaking from my slumber is McCain.

I am ashamed only in the fact I was not a more informed voter and I aided in electing some shady people into office

but then again politics is shady as a whole on both sides...I am proud of the fact I am now always an informed voter and I exercise the right every time an election is held. You may be proud of your party...and that's great...but for me there is no pride in allowing assault weapons to litter the streets especially in this day and age...there is no pride in the fact millions of people are with out health care and many are homeless.Children going hungry...there is no pride in turning a blind eyeto the very companies that pollute our land, air and water allowing them to lobby for favors like writing our environmental laws.This Admin has REVERSED over 20 YEARS of environmental laws put in place to keep safe the most valuable recourse of all...the world..the soil...the water...the air.

There is no pride in rewarding companies who move jobs to other countries to turn a higher profit while preying on a poorer country and still paying them dirt...there is no pride in turning our back on the future of America buy cutting school funding, programs, and not keeping our children safe. There is no pride in inviting terrorists to "bring it on" while not having 100% security in the boarders, airports and shipping ports..A color chart just aint going to cut it! I see it as rather reckless abuse of power. It serves no purpose to withhold the truth of the war good & bad...and security issues of this country from the American public other then strictly political gain.This is one of the richest countries on the planet....there is no excuse for it what so ever.Call me a dove call me a bleeding heart...krist call me a tree hugger if you wish its all good!Its funny how in the republicans eyes they are all dirty words...in my world that is just how mankind is suppose to be.caring, giving, growing striving to be better and forgiving.I read how someone commented how no one ever went after Clinton like they do Bush...I had to laugh...the republicans were after Clinton like flies on stink why? because the people loved him...they could not beat him on that front so they HAD to play dirty...and they NEVER let up...they made him a lame duck president in the end...and who knows maybe 9/11 would have never taken place had it not been that way...the republicans put their own petty interests and hatred above the American people and the very country they claim to love...fully knowing Americans were sick to death of it besides it was costing a bundle...and the bottom line was the American public would not allow Clinton to be removed from office. It was during that time when I saw how the republicans were so bold as to care so little about Americans I said never again....Ask yourself this...do you seriously think I am the only one?

To most of the countries surprise and probably the worlds...Bush was appointed by the court...and think about it and be honest if you can...you don't find it a tad weird this all happened in the state of Florida?...come on now! I could not write a better fiction story then that...

But I put my feelings aside...decide to give him a chance....9/11 happened...I was behind him 100 percent that was until stupidity set in and he decide to make his pre-election agenda a reality...Saddam. In my eyes he abandoned the real war on terror the very day we entered Iraq...and let America down, his reason again...right, that would be WMD...I keep forgetting he has changed it so many times to fit his justification.How come the Dan Rather story is bigger news that they didn't resourse the documents good enough...but really not alot was made from the college paper Powell used to fight the good fight.? A stupid guard story is held to a higher standard of scrutiny then going to war on faulty info? And now is where you try to convince me he did not know...God knows he hasn't tried.Not only has he NOT explained most of his actions (oh thats right he's prez he doesn't have to) He hasn't explained what he is going to do to fix this mess were in (again with the he doesn't have to...because he doesn't waiver)If it was not for the 9/11 women you have to wonder if the commision would have been reality..Bush certainly didn't want it.He was pretty much forced into it.What country is this again?? there goes that WTF again*shakes head* Maybe your ok with scare tactic's of duct tape,plastic...a stupid color code and endless chatter.

But I am not, I do not expect the president of the most powerful country to use bully like tactics

to push not only the American people for political gain ..but the entire world...

there are many civil questions I would like to ask the prez on his 100th visit to my battleground state...gosh do you think they would let me after I burned my ditto monkey suit? nahhhhh I think we have seen that answer splashed on the news a few times to many...

The best sign I have seen all year was held buy a little child...it read...

Mr President...my grandpa lost his job...its your turn...

okay well this has been fun...maybe we can play again some other time *waving bubbye*

[April]

Good for you April... We can only hope others that were registered Republicans struggle out of their blinders as well! Just make sure you don't find yourself off the voters list....

I miss Regan... you got to be kidding.. How do you swallow all the Horse do do that the Republicans are feeding you? Which of the multiple reasons for invading Iraq do you support? and What does invading Iraq have to do with the war on Terrorism?

Thanks Shakey,

Naw its all good...in my state you don't have to register

party lines...So I am only registered to vote...

All very good questions ...I have yet to meet a republican who could answer them...honestly

I believe the answers I was given for both questions was

Saddam was involved in 9/11 OMG!

[maplesyrup]

I just can't believe the scumbag of our planet is leading, although it is a small lead, in the polls. How friggin* stupid are you Yanks anyways?

[takeanumber]

I don't truly believe that the polls matter all that much nationally.

I don't trust them anymore than I trusted the Canadian seat counts.

Looking at the electoral math, I think Kerry is actually leading, since most undecideds vote for the challenger.

But shhh. It's best if the Republicans stay cocky and believe they have a lead.

Anyway, I don't think Bush served honourably, nor has he led a very good life. He drank and drove, snorted cocaine, and drove every single company given to him straight into the ground. He's had everything handed to him on a silver platter, and it's wrong for him to claim that he worked for everything he got. That's a falsehood.

If you want to compare Kerry and Bush on character alone, Kerry is the better man.

[Shakeyhands]

the one that really amazes me is how bad the Republican spin machine has made Kerry look in terms of his service... It's actually pretty disgusting... and to listen to them you'd think Bush was a freakin war hero...

[I miss Reagan]

I just can't believe the scumbag of our planet is leading, although it is a small lead, in the polls. How friggin* stupid are you Yanks anyways?

Hey well after Bush serves out his next term maybe Guliani will win and then we have one more Bush in waiting. Yep good ol' Jeb will be ready to take the lead. I'm just glad that the US chooses the president and not Canada.

[takeanumber]

I actually think it's pretty sick that Americans allow Dynasties.

It's like Indonesia down there.

[Shakeyhands]

Rumsfeild hinting that parts of Iraq may miss the elections... Mission Accomplished Indeed!!!! Bush drops the ball yet again. Its time for new blood kids.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/24/...main/index.html

I hope you Americans wake up and smell the shoit that you are being served. Whats the death toll at this week? Get that buffoon out of the White House and lets get busy fixing this mess.

[Black Dog]

Yes the right was out to get him. And true Clinton was a polarizer but that wasn't my point. My point was Bush haters didn't hold Clinton to the same standard.

But really: why should they. We'r etalking partisan politics, which is ugly. I think much of the hatred of Bush come sfrom his dubious election, his handling of 9-11 and cynical exploitation thereof, the war on Iraq, the shoddy economy, his religious ties and his perpetual shit-eating grin. The list goes on.

Insurgents, the leftist media loves that euphemism. Anyway yes Al zarqawi from Jordan is it. There is no argument, these so called freedom fighters are Al Qaeda.

There is an argument and that's, even if there are Al-Qaedea elements in Iraq, the resistance is not monolithic, does not have a central command, is not even ideologically heterogenous.

As for Bush's Guard service:...

And yet according to his own discharge papers, there is no record that he did any training whatsoever after May 1972. Indeed, there is no record that Bush performed any Guard service in Alabama at all. In 2000, a group of veterans offered a $3,500 reward for anyone who could confirm Bush's Alabama Guard service. Of the estimated 600 to 700 Guardsmen who were in Bush's unit, not a single person came forward.

In 1973 Bush returned to his Houston Guard unit, but in May of that year his commanders could not complete his annual officer effectiveness rating report because, they wrote, "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of the report."

His public records paint a portrait of a Guardsman who, with the cooperation of his Texas Air National Guard superiors, simply flouted regulation after regulation indifferent to his obligation to serve.

[CaptainKangeroo]

- YES INDEED, I do believe a lot of what Bush says and, even more importantly, I think that Bush believes pretty much everything he says ... in contrast, I don't think Ole Cash and Kerry believes much of anything he says so why should I even try to believe him ... the joke is that Kerry has agreed to three presidential debates - the first two will be with himself.

[Black Dog]

YES INDEED, I do believe a lot of what Bush says and, even more importantly, I think that Bush believes pretty much everything he says

And that, to me, is the scariest thing of all.

[I miss Reagan]

much of the hatred of Bush come sfrom his dubious election, his handling of 9-11

Ya and what were his approval ratings of his handleing of 9-11? somewhere around 90%.

shoddy economy

The economy has improved, the tax cuts are working, as we speak more tax cuts are going through congress, and despite the attempts of the left to blame Bush for the economy most Americans realize the econmy was the result of the most horrendous attack in American history. And thus Bush's numbers go higher, I think to a 7 point lead was the last poll I heard.

religious ties

Well I know perhaps Canadian's secularism is one reason they have this moral superiority complex but the majority of Americans are religious and side with Bush.

perpetual shit-eating grin. The list goes on.

...more irrational hatred.

There is an argument and that's, even if there are Al-Qaedea elements in Iraq, the resistance is not monolithic, does not have a central command, is not even ideologically heterogenous.

They are united by some common themes: 1) to rid "their" land of "infidels" 2) To kill Americans 3) To kill Jews and push Israel into the sea. And you paint Bush as a relious fanatic?

[Black Dog]

QUOTE 

much of the hatred of Bush come sfrom his dubious election, his handling of 9-11 

Ya and what were his approval ratings of his handleing of 9-11? somewhere around 90%.

Meaningless. A simple reflection of the tendency of AMericans to rally round their national symbols when threatened. I guess that means 10 per cent of the population were clued in enough to know that Bush, after running like a dog on 9-11, fumbling the intelligence leading up to the attack and then expoliting it for politicla gain (ie. Iraq), was selling them a bill of goods.

The economy has improved, the tax cuts are working, as we speak more tax cuts are going through congress, and despite the attempts of the left to blame Bush for the economy most Americans realize the econmy was the result of the most horrendous attack in American history. And thus Bush's numbers go higher, I think to a 7 point lead was the last poll I heard.

Most Americans...would that be the less than 50 per cent voting for Bush? Latest polls have Bush up by 3 points on Kerry, whil his overall job performance rating is around 47 per cent. Half opf Americans think the country is headed in the wrong direction and think it's time for a change.

Meanwhile the defecit keeps growing and is projected to continue to swell, the economy remains sluggish, millions are still out of work...

The tax cuts are a con.

Well I know perhaps Canadian's secularism is one reason they have this moral superiority complex but the majority of Americans are religious and side with Bush.

The majority of Americans also believe God created man and the universe 10,000 years ago. Also, as polls are showing, the majority of Americans don't side with Bush.

They are united by some common themes: 1) to rid "their" land of "infidels" 2) To kill Americans 3) To kill Jews and push Israel into the sea. And you paint Bush as a relious fanatic?

Izzat so? By all means, please post your copy of the "Insurgents Handbook" detailing these schemes.

Otherwise, read some of these analyises of the insurgency.

Iraqi Insurgency Groups

A bazaar of violence.

[Guest eureka]

Sorry, BD, the last I saw was that 46% of Americans identified themselves as "Born-again" Christians: not quite a majority.

It is interesting that the idea of the joint creation was proposed by an Irish Bishop - I can't remember how long ago. He would be laughed out of Ireland today but the Americans - or a lot of them - seem to have bought into it.

It makes about as much sense as Newton's fix of the date for the end of the world.

[Black Dog]

Sorry, BD, the last I saw was that 46% of Americans identified themselves as "Born-again" Christians: not quite a majority.

45 per cent of Americans accept Biblical account of creation

That's a lot of people," Bishop told ABC News. "That's not like it's some small minority position." Other findings are equally provocative:

-39% believe in a form of so-called "theistic evolution," where evolutionary processes developed over millions of years but were "guided" by God.

-Only about 10% subscribe to evolution without any form of divine guidance or intervention as an explanation of how life began.

-Scientists are far more likely to reject the notion that a deity was involved in any scenario for explaining how human and life originated. Only 5% subscribe to a literalist, biblical explanation, 40% accept some kind of theistic evolution, and 55% hold to a strict evolutionary explanation without any participation for a deity.

A Gallup poll last June suggested that as many as one-third of Americans believe, "The Bible is the actual word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word."

That's still a frightful level of ignorance.

But anyway, moving right along: why would you believe Bush? The guy flip-flops more than a fish on dry land:

Flip Flopper in Chief

Kerry consistent

[CaptainKangeroo]

And that, to me, is the scariest thing of all.

- BD - I simply prefer someone who believes what he is saying to me rather than someone who has more positions than a double jointed, gymnastics medal winning, high priced hooker working a Teamsters Convention and who lies to me half the time and lies to himself the other half ... I find it impossible to hold someone like that politically accountable and I also find it hard to follow someone who wants to lead us in several directions simultaneously.

[takeanumber]

Wow.

Well.

I don't believe that the economy is getting better. It's getting outsourced. Moreover, so many Americans are running out of their version of EI. It's really quite scary.

But I suppose they're turning that corner.

That corner is being turned.

They're turning the corner.

The debates should be fun to watch. I think we're going to see Kerry be more human. That would be terrific.

[ft.niagara]

The debates should be fun to watch. I think we're going to see Kerry be more human. That would be terrific.

Yes it would be terrific, if you are a liberal democrat, but don't hold your breath, its not likely to happen. He has one advantage though, he is taller, and the taller candidate usually wins.

[theloniusfleabag]

President Bush recently stated that "some 50-75% of the top Al-Qaeda operatives have been captured or killed". (Read this on Yahoo news, I believe) In the Book 'Imperial Hubris', the author (a CIA expert on the middle east) states that the US had no clue as to the actual numbers, or whereabouts, of most of the Al-qaeda members'. So Bush claims 50-75% so it looks to the American people that he is winning. In reality, the claim is baseless, as they had no idea what 100% was.

He will say whatever it takes to win the confidence of the American people, by telling them what they want to hear, and neither truth nor fact are relied upon or required.

[takeanumber]

Perhaps Bush is a pathological liar.

It's like a constant stream of falsehoods comming from his mouth ALL THE TIME.

Take for instance, the situation in Iraq. He got his puppet Alawi to come on over and blame the media for everything, and then Bush says things are actually pretty good in Iraq...

It's just a contant stream...

[BigDookie6]

Where to begin?? So much crap floating around in here, time to clean-up! I'm just going to pick all of you apart....

Perhaps Bush is a pathological liar.

Look up the word "pathological." Perhaps you are delusional and schizophrenic. I can't stand the man, but do not think he is a pathological liar.

It's like a constant stream of falsehoods comming from his mouth ALL THE TIME.

His mouth? Or what the media thinks he meant?

Take for instance, the situation in Iraq. He got his puppet Alawi to come on over and blame the media for everything, and then Bush says things are actually pretty good in Iraq...

Have you been to Iraq since the war started? Know any servicemen/women serving over there right now, or just came back? If so, do you communicate with them on a regular basis? Reason I ask is because I know many people over there whom I talk to on a regular basis (some everyday) and their story differ from what the "headlines" report. We all know the huge media corporations are in a "truth war" right now, and will only report deaths and problems in Iraq, not progress. Did you or anybody else in the world have other ideas or prospects on who to appoint as Iraqi PM?

So Bush claims 50-75% so it looks to the American people that he is winning. In reality, the claim is baseless, as they had no idea what 100% was.

Since 9/11, not only the U.S. but also the Intl. Community has disrupted cells, finances, killed and even captured al-Qada members. Almost on a daily basis. Sounds like progress to me! The 50-75% that Bush was referring to was a "ballpark" figure, and probably pretty close. You left out that he also mentioned (to avoid arguments like yours) that these were CIA based figures. Not a number that he came up with on his own.

Yes it would be terrific, if you are a liberal democrat, but don't hold your breath, its not likely to happen. He has one advantage though, he is taller, and the taller candidate usually wins.

God I hope you are not a U.S. citizen who votes! I hope you are not a Canadian voter either! I know Youngstown, NY is dense, but I didn't think it's people were!

I don't believe that the economy is getting better. It's getting outsourced. Moreover, so many Americans are running out of their version of EI. It's really quite scary.

Weird... 50% of America thinks it's better, 50% thinks it's worse! Outsourcing... (this one's weird too) Constantly hear complaints of this one. Americans (Libs & Conserv.) are pissed off because we are taking low paying jobs from Americans and giving them to other countries. But Liberals want a globalized economy, but not outsourcing, in which it is just boosting the economy of that country and providing many jobs, which they did not have before. Bottom line is, America is helping the world's unemployment rate. I would especially think that the Liberals & Dems are happy about that! And GW's fault, not the State's?

But anyway, moving right along: why would you believe Bush? The guy flip-flops more than a fish on dry land:

Funny, I thought it was common knowledge that ALL politicians do this, not just Pres. Bush! Can you say LOBBY? Just how politics work!

Meaningless. A simple reflection of the tendency of AMericans to rally round their national symbols when threatened. I guess that means 10 per cent of the population were clued in enough to know that Bush, after running like a dog on 9-11, fumbling the intelligence leading up to the attack and then expoliting it for politicla gain (ie. Iraq), was selling them a bill of goods.

I think we were all running around like a dog on 9/11! Imagine the pressure ANY president would feel, when his country is attacked?? At least he didn't curl up in a ball or drop a hasty "nuke"!

Most Americans...would that be the less than 50 per cent voting for Bush? Latest polls have Bush up by 3 points on Kerry, whil his overall job performance rating is around 47 per cent. Half opf Americans think the country is headed in the wrong direction and think it's time for a change.

I guess we'll see come election day!

Meanwhile the defecit keeps growing and is projected to continue to swell, the economy remains sluggish, millions are still out of work...

Lemme see; have I got this straight? Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good... Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good... Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good... Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". This is the day

after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government. This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's t he earliest it has been

since 1991. It's latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice anything special about those dates?

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are actually paying more taxes

under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave no explanation and provided no data for this claim. Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John

Kerry are wealthy men. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces.

Not your average A-frame). Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

And that, to me, is the scariest thing of all.

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good... Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad... Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists-

good... Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad... Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good... Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad... Clinton commits felonies while in office - good... Bush lands on

aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad... No mass graves found in Serbia - good... No WMD found Iraq - bad...

Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad... Milosevic not yet convicted - good... Saddam turned

over for trial - bad...

People like you are scary, and glad you are not in government. Keep ignoring the real situations BD!

[Newfie Canadian]

Do you really believe anything Bush says?

No.