I miss Reagan Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Funny: both examples you cite were former U.S. clients. Since we are over simplifying things, - remember "my enemy's enemy is my friend". At the time when Iran and the Soviet Union were real threats the US funded the Afgani freedom fighters. So ya I guess they could've gone in and taken the Russian out of Afganistan themselves, that would've been pretty wouldn't it. Or they could've taken on Iran themselves but that would've made them "unilateral occupiers". Funny: where was the U.S. during all those? the day Saddam gassed the Kurds, Donald Rumsfeld was shaking the man's hand in Baghdad. Oh you guys love that picture, somehow it tells it all doesn't it. I guess it's kinda similar to Paul Martin shaking hands with George Bush eh since he's such an evil despot.Nevertheless this is sidesteping the issue. My point is Canada is very good at lecturing the US how to act but refuses to act themselves. Sure the world should act in Sudan but I don't see Canada willing to sacrifice any troops for humanity. No we'll just send some peacekeepers after the dirty work is done. It's always the same story isn't, lecturing from the self righteous Canadians about whether either the US should or should not be somewhere. Always concerned with how the US is responsible for calamity in the world. When it comes down to it, Canada does nothing but give lip service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 My response indicated that something doesn't have to affect me personally for me to be concerned with it. By your logic, canadad should have turned away U.S.-bound flights on 9-11, since that catastrophe wasn't our problem. No comparison to invading Iraq or U.S. policies! Try again... Except "you" are. Abu Ghirab. DU. Napalm. "Collateral damage".... Hazing is not an atrocity. Since we're on the prison scandal... I myself would not take pics. with an ugly, hairy, naked Arab man. But could see why... Prisoners over there have to be interrogated. Some are cooperative some are not. One must exploit one's weakness in order to obtain certain information. Terrorism is serious business! What is one thing that Arab men cannot stand? Being naked in front of others or especially women. I myself would have used "truth serrum." But I am willing to bet you would still use that as a platform to bitch. "The U.S. is altering one's mind to obtain information! Human rights violation!" Funny how all you "peacenicks" are all about the environment, animal rights, and human rights... How do you balance it out or stay happy? Would you sue a bear if he maulled a human? Maybe we should be cutting off heads instead of dropping bombs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 I just can't believe the scumbag of our planet is leading, although it is a small lead, in the polls. How friggin* stupid are you Yanks anyways? Well believe it! Can't wait to see what you will say when Bush remains the President after the election! The "stupid" remarks don't cut it! I guess we've been stupid for the past 225 years now, and we're still here! And more are flooding our boarders to get in! Maybe it's the stupid opportunities?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Since we are over simplifying things, - remember "my enemy's enemy is my friend". At the time when Iran and the Soviet Union were real threats the US funded the Afgani freedom fighters. So ya I guess they could've gone in and taken the Russian out of Afganistan themselves, that would've been pretty wouldn't it. Or they could've taken on Iran themselves but that would've made them "unilateral occupiers". You made my point. Realpolitik: that is a policy of placing the national interest above and before all other considerations (ncluding democracy and human rights) is teh driver of U.S. foreign policy, not some benign sense of noblesse oblige. Oh you guys love that picture, somehow it tells it all doesn't it. I guess it's kinda similar to Paul Martin shaking hands with George Bush eh since he's such an evil despot. A picture worth a thousand Kurds. My point is Canada is very good at lecturing the US how to act but refuses to act themselves. Sure the world should act in Sudan but I don't see Canada willing to sacrifice any troops for humanity. No we'll just send some peacekeepers after the dirty work is done. It's always the same story isn't, lecturing from the self righteous Canadians about whether either the US should or should not be somewhere. Always concerned with how the US is responsible for calamity in the world. When it comes down to it, Canada does nothing but give lip service. So: it's better to act in self-interest and cause harm than not act at all? Huh. Weird. I would argue that Canada places far greater value on peace and diplomacy (who negotiated the release of U..S hostages in Iran?) than our southern neighbours. Hazing is not an atrocity. Beating, torture, sexual and psychological accault is. That's what happened. I'd be interested to see you laugh off having a broom stick rammed up your ass. Prisoners over there have to be interrogated. Some are cooperative some are not. One must exploit one's weakness in order to obtain certain information. Terrorism is serious business! What is one thing that Arab men cannot stand? Being naked in front of others or especially women. I myself would have used "truth serrum." But I am willing to bet you would still use that as a platform to bitch. "The U.S. is altering one's mind to obtain information! Human rights violation!" Funny how all you "peacenicks" are all about the environment, animal rights, and human rights... How do you balance it out or stay happy? Would you sue a bear if he maulled a human. Between 70 and 90 per cent of those incarcerated at Abu Ghirab prison were innocent of any wrong doing. The majority of the prison population were picked up during random sweeps. They didn't deserve to be there and they didn't deserve the treatment they recieved, especially from the very people who claimed to be "liberating" them from tyranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 You made my point. Realpolitik: that is a policy of placing the national interest above and before all other considerations (ncluding democracy and human rights) is teh driver of U.S. foreign policy, not some benign sense of noblesse oblige. What's wrong with national interest? I'm a nationalist (not the Nazi type) and think every country should be! That's the problem you have with America... We love our sovereignty, and do not want to be "The United States of The World"! And you know what else? We still leave the door open to look out for world interest, at the same time. Just like Canada & Europe, we too have organizations (with millions of government free dollars) who are supporting Human, Animal & Environmental rights! How much more do you want us to dish out? So: it's better to act in self-interest and cause harm than not act at all? Huh. Weird.I would argue that Canada places far greater value on peace and diplomacy (who negotiated the release of U..S hostages in Iran?) than our southern neighbours. Those values you are referring to don't seem to be working too well! Since that Iran incident, how many terrorists attacks have there been around the world? (hundreds!) Canada's weak attitude and sympathy really helped Russia, huh? If the world negotiated like Canada, and I were a terrorist... I would never stop because I could get whatever I wanted using fear! Beating, torture, sexual and psychological accault is. That's what happened. I'd be interested to see you laugh off having a broom stick rammed up your ass. Sucks to be al-Qada or Taliban! Better than having my head cut off! Funny how the Geneva Convention only applies to the U.S. Between 70 and 90 per cent of those incarcerated at Abu Ghirab prison were innocent of any wrong doing. The majority of the prison population were picked up during random sweeps. They didn't deserve to be there and they didn't deserve the treatment they recieved, especially from the very people who claimed to be "liberating" them from tyranny. Oh please... Another weak Canadian! We released the one's who were found innocent. And yeah, they did deserve to be there. And NO, we did not torture or abuse all of them or even most of them. The prisoners we picked up in Iraq, do not represent, not even a tiny majority of Iraqi's! Stick with Comedy, Blackie... That's all you Canuks are good at! You people think you know so much about politics, but understand very little! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 What's wrong with national interest? I'm a nationalist (not the Nazi type) and think every country should be! That's the problem you have with America... We love our sovereignty, and do not want to be "The United States of The World"! And you know what else? We still leave the door open to look out for world interest, at the same time. Just like Canada & Europe, we too have organizations (with millions of government free dollars) who are supporting Human, Animal & Environmental rights! How much more do you want us to dish out? Gee, that's swell. Thing is, when America's interests and things like, say, democracy, clash, the former will always trump the latter. I understand that such is the way of nations (particularily the powerful ones), and I'm consistently amazed by the ability of Americans to acknowledge this while still buyinginto the national myth of America the benevolant global policeman. The U.S.A, despite it's high-minded rhetoric, is not special, is not blessed above all others by providence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 What's wrong with national interest? I'm a nationalist (not the Nazi type) and think every country should be! That's the problem you have with America... We love our sovereignty, and do not want to be "The United States of The World"! And you know what else? We still leave the door open to look out for world interest, at the same time. Just like Canada & Europe, we too have organizations (with millions of government free dollars) who are supporting Human, Animal & Environmental rights! How much more do you want us to dish out? Gee, that's swell. Thing is, when America's interests and things like, say, democracy, clash, the former will always trump the latter. I understand that such is the way of nations (particularily the powerful ones), and I'm consistently amazed by the ability of Americans to acknowledge this while still buyinginto the national myth of America the benevolant global policeman. The U.S.A, despite it's high-minded rhetoric, is not special, nor is it blessed above all others by providence. It's just a country, albeit a powerful one, capable of both great good and great evil. Those values you are referring to don't seem to be working too well! Since that Iran incident, how many terrorists attacks have there been around the world? (hundreds!) Canada's weak attitude and sympathy really helped Russia, huh? If the world negotiated like Canada, and I were a terrorist... I would never stop because I could get whatever I wanted using fear! Please show me the memo that appointed Canada #1 Defender of the World. Sucks to be al-Qada or Taliban! Better than having my head cut off! Funny how the Geneva Convention only applies to the U.S. Who said it did? Oh please... Another weak Canadian! We released the one's who were found innocent. Yeah, prisoners were released: after the fact. And yeah, they did deserve to be there. And NO, we did not torture or abuse all of them or even most of them. The prisoners we picked up in Iraq, do not represent, not even a tiny majority of Iraqi's! "Besides: it was only a little torture..." Stick with Comedy, Blackie... That's all you Canuks are good at! You people think you know so much about politics, but understand very little! That's rich coming from someone with such a tenuous grasp of logic and total ignorance of the facts of the issue he's arguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Gee, that's swell. Thing is, when America's interests and things like, say, democracy, clash, the former will always trump the latter. I understand that such is the way of nations (particularily the powerful ones), and I'm consistently amazed by the ability of Americans to acknowledge this while still buyinginto the national myth of America the benevolant global policeman. The U.S.A, despite it's high-minded rhetoric, is not special, is not blessed above all others by providence. When are you going to get it Blackie? People like you say the samething, yet America and her proud democracy are still around! What is it now... Going on 228 years? We must be doing something right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I miss Reagan Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 You made my point. Realpolitik: that is a policy of placing the national interest above and before all other considerations (ncluding democracy and human rights) is teh driver of U.S. foreign policy, not some benign sense of noblesse oblige.Yes but my argument was that the US chose to defend itself in the most efficient was possible with least possible colateral damage. But this is a very narrow view which ignores situations where the US has defended others beyond it's own self interest such as in Serbia or Haiti. The US defends Taiwan and Israel among many other countries but I don't see the self interest there. When they intervene in purely humanitarian causes like Somalia they get burned by an antagonistic UN so I guess I wouldn't blame them for not doing more "for the good of the world". Their motives will always be questioned.I would argue that Canada places far greater value on peace and diplomacy A luxury afforded to a country which doesn't spend a dime on defence by mooching off the US. Beating, torture, sexual and psychological accault is.That's what happened. I'd be interested to see you laugh off having a broom stick rammed up your ass. I don't buy you're stat of 70% innocent at all. I think if I were a soldier who had a prisoner who had just killed americans or who had raped and murdered women I wouldn't be too friendly either. I don't consider being naked as being torture. Dookie is right though, why is it that the US is the only country held to the standards of the Geneva Convention? No one seems to be outraged by the beheadings and torture coming from the "insurgents". It seems to be written off as a product of "their culture" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Please show me the memo that appointed Canada #1 Defender of the World. WTF are you talking about? That's rich coming from someone with such a tenuous grasp of logic and total ignorance of the facts of the issue he's arguing. You haven't said one substantial thing yet. I'm still waiting... Right now your're tickling me, and I'm laughing Throw the ball chief! Sorry Blackie, I don't read minds! You must be a women! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 When are you going to get it Blackie? People like you say the samething, yet America and her proud democracy are still around! What is it now... Going on 228 years? We must be doing something right! What does longevity have to do with anything? How long did Rome stand? The British Empire? Yes but my argument was that the US chose to defend itself in the most efficient was possible with least possible colateral damage. I respond by pointing out there are numerous examples (Latin America in the 80's being a good one) where U.S proxies engaged in a considerable number of atrocities against civilians. But this is a very narrow view which ignores situations where the US has defended others beyond it's own self interest such as in Serbia or Haiti. I'm not saying the U.S. is evil or incapable of doing any good. I'm saying the narrative which paints the U.S. as perpetually acting soley in the interest of freedom and democracy is a lie. I don't buy you're stat of 70% innocent at all. That was the figure quoted to the Red Cross by U.S. inteligence officials. I don't consider being naked as being torture How about the sodomy? The beatings? Dookie is right though, why is it that the US is the only country held to the standards of the Geneva Convention? No one seems to be outraged by the beheadings and torture coming from the "insurgents". It seems to be written off as a product of "their culture" For heaven's sake people: you both have been droning on about this for ages, yet haven't offered a sdhred of evidence that anyone is excusing the beheadings or saying the U.S. is the only one who mush adhere to the geneva statuates. So either back up your statement or shut up about it already. Throw the ball chief! Sorry Blackie, I don't read minds! You must be a women! W...T....F? That settles it: you're a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I miss Reagan Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 I'm not saying the U.S. is evil or incapable of doing any good. I'm saying the narrative which paints the U.S. as perpetually acting soley in the interest of freedom and democracy is a lie. I think that's fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eureka Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 When did the US release the ones that were innocent? There are hundreds in Guantamo and thousands in Iraq being held and, in Guantamo, for years now, without charge or trial :, without lawyers, or or access to process. Only recently has the the Us Supreme Court ordered that they must be given access to due process in Guantamo. In Iraq, who knowa how many innocents are being held on the whim of American troops. Balckdog, I noticed a couple of typos in you last posts. That is unusual for you. These clowns must be frustrating you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 People like you say the samething, yet America and her proud democracy are still around! What is it now... Going on 228 years? We must be doing something right! Actually, the USA lasted a mere 85 years. The Civil War was the failure of the American Experiment and the country that emerged from it was not the same, having abandoned most of the liberal ideals it was founded upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Hugo, Eureka & Blackie... Please tell me where we are repeating history, and when will we fall like Rome? It must just be killing the three of you, that America is really the best country in the world! Isn't it amazing how so many people around the world want to come live here? Or that we have a natural "traditional warrior" mentality for Liberty & Justice, not just in America? Even if you are anti-war, it's pretty significant that we have an "all volunteer" military. What other country, that when they are attacked has such pride, willing to serve & die for what they believe is a good cause. (You can't say terrorists, because they serve only themselves) What do you say to all the volunteers after 9/11. Not only new volunteers but one's who re-enlisted? Or what about people like that professional Fball player? (Pat Tillman) Who gives up a multi-million $$$ contract to enlist in the Army's special forces? Then dies fighting in Afghanistan? There was no draft... People didn't even know when we were gonna be going to war, but were preparing! Pretty significant Canada! It's pretty godamn amazing, that we all know how corrupt & wealthy our govt. is, but look past that because we are not oppressed, nor do we oppress other nations. It kills countries like Canada and all over Europe because you envy our sense of pride, and can't stand the fact that we will NEVER conform to a New World Order. You can throw whatever negative facts, policies, procedures, attitudes, comparisons, history, etc. at us, (because that's all you can do) and will never phase us. We won't even budge! Resilliance! That is what makes Americans unique in the world. Hugo, Eureka, & Blackie... Quit trying to be an "elitist"... You're not in govt. and you're not in the Media! (If you were, you wouldn't be waisting your time on this site) Oppressed nations and people blame other governments and people for their misery, rather than looking at their own. I honestly could care less about Canadian govt. or people, not because I'm ignorant, but because I live here in America. And it's not to say that we don't care about what's going on in the world... I've mentioned previously, we have huge organizations that are contributing millions of dollars, food, hours to causes like protecting the environment, human rights, AIDS, natural disasters, education, technology, etc... What more do you want? A lot of this is done without government money, and even when it is govt. money, it's still our tax dollars! Outsourcing?? I know people are mad about this and you Canuks use it every chance you get. But I don't hear the countries we are employing complaining! It's funny, out of every negative fact, remark, personal attack on our people or govt., what we do here & there... We're still proud Americans! We put our pants on just like You! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I miss Reagan Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 When did the US release the ones that were innocent? A couple of months ago. They let out bus loads from Abu Ghraib. You probably missed it because the media was more focused on the picture of a German Sheperd barking at a naked terrorist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Hugo, Eureka & Blackie... Please tell me where we are repeating history, and when will we fall like Rome? The invasion of Iraq probably marks at least the start of imperial overstretch. This phenomenon can be observed in all great empires: Rome, the British, the Habsburg, etc. In all cases, it heralded the collapse of the empire. Basically, it follows the pattern that the empire will become so confident of its power and hegemony that it will start military expeditions in areas not crucial to its natural interest. Iraq is a good example. Whatever the sins of Saddam Hussein, an invasion of Iraq was not in the national interest of the USA. Once this process has begun, the overstretch will bankrupt and destroy the empire. An empire that recognises this process can retreat gracefully, like Britain, but when it fails to recognise its own imminent demise, it collapses catastrophically, like Rome. Even if you are anti-war, it's pretty significant that we have an "all volunteer" military. We'll see. It's pretty godamn amazing, that we all know how corrupt & wealthy our govt. is, but look past that because we are not oppressed The Patriot Act allows the US Government to imprison US citizens without Miranda rights, or their other rights under the US Constitution. US jails are full of people who are not criminals, but who merely defied government decrees. Drug users, tax dodgers, or anyone "illegally" doing any of the many, many things government has decided you need their blessing to do: landscaping, mail delivery, dispensing legal or medical advice, taxiing or commercial trucking, etc. etc. You are oppressed. You just don't see it. The US Government has made it its business to interfere in every little aspect of your life. Look how massive and bloated the budget is. Look at how heavily you are taxed. The US has become a socialist state, and it retains only enough freedom to ensure a little economic growth. Even that is in jeopardy. Who you pick in this next election doesn't really matter. Kerry will give you a massive government to coerce you into his vision of neo-socialist Utopia, Bush will give you a massive government to coerce foreigners into his vision of neo-socialist Utopia (and probably you, too). Either way, your life is not your own. Oppressed nations and people blame other governments and people for their misery, rather than looking at their own. Isn't that exactly what you're doing right now? "America is great! Terrorists are evil! It's all their fault!" It must just be killing the three of you, that America is really the best country in the world! That's akin to saying "I'm the sanest man in this asylum." What's more, you're actually proud of that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 It must just be killing the three of you, that America is really the best country in the world! Not to turn this into a pissing contest, but ... Most and Least Livable Countries: UN Human Development Index, 2004The Human Development Index (HDI), published annually by the UN, ranks nations according to their citizens' quality of life rather than strictly by a nation's traditional economic figures. The criteria for calculating rankings include life expectancy, educational attainment, and adjusted real income. “Most Livable” Countries, 2004 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Australia 4. Canada 5. Netherlands 6. Belgium 7. Iceland 8. United States 9. Japan 10. Ireland It kills countries like Canada and all over Europe because you envy our sense of pride, and can't stand the fact that we will NEVER conform to a New World Order. You wil be assimilated, resistance is futile. The black helicopters are on their way. You can throw whatever negative facts, policies, procedures, attitudes, comparisons, history, etc. at us, (because that's all you can do) and will never phase us. We won't even budge! Resilliance! That is what makes Americans unique in the world. Why is it that so many Americans are incapable of distinguishing between pig headed obstinenece and true resiliance? . I honestly could care less about Canadian govt. or people, not because I'm ignorant, but because I live here in America. So why are you trolling a predominately Canadian message board? Surely there's other venues available for you to beat your chest. A couple of months ago. They let out bus loads from Abu Ghraib. You probably missed it because the media was more focused on the picture of a German Sheperd barking at a naked terrorist. Real big of them to release all thos ewrongly imprisoned people. Too bad they waited until after the realities of torture and wrongful imprisonment were made public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I miss Reagan Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Hugo. I find it funny to listen to a Canadian lecturing the US about 'big government' and limitations on civil liberties. Here in Canada I can't even watch the news channel I want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Hugo. I find it funny to listen to a Canadian lecturing the US about 'big government' I'm not Canadian, and I'm an anarchist libertarian, so I can lecture the US about "big government" as much as I want, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I miss Reagan Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 This whole instituting the draft thing, is something the left in the US is using as a scare tactic against Bush. There is no evidence what so ever that Bush will reinstitute the draft. In fact it's the dems who are trying to impose the draft. Most notable Charlie Rangel has his bill in congress to impose the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Hugo. I find it funny to listen to a Canadian lecturing the US about 'big government' and limitations on civil liberties. Here in Canada I can't even watch the news channel I want to. I think Hugo's stance has been pretty evident: he doesn't support any state. Fair play. And really, if the biggest affront to your civil liberties as a Canadian is the inability to watch FoxNews, you should be thankful. This whole instituting the draft thing, is something the left in the US is using as a scare tactic against Bush. There is no evidence what so ever that Bush will reinstitute the draft. In fact it's the dems who are trying to impose the draft. Most notable Charlie Rangel has his bill in congress to impose the draft. Under discussion over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDookie6 Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 I'm not Canadian, and I'm an anarchist libertarian, so I can lecture the US about "big government" as much as I want, thanks. So that means you probably do not vote? Because you never have a party running for office! Therefore, you don't rate to talk about politics or "lecture" in your words. Funny that anarchy is probably 1% of the worlds population. Maybe because it's not a good thing?? You wil be assimilated, resistance is futile. The black helicopters are on their way. rolleyes.gif We're waiting.... With our right to bear arms! Why is it that so many Americans are incapable of distinguishing between pig headed obstinenece and true resiliance? Because we're an independent nation! Those who are insecure say what you just said! So why are you trolling a predominately Canadian message board? Surely there's other venues available for you to beat your chest. I like "special Ed.".... Have to educate the retards! Real big of them to release all thos ewrongly imprisoned people. Too bad they waited until after the realities of torture and wrongful imprisonment were made public. Guess they should have thought about who they were hanging around with, when captured! Affiliation by association! The invasion of Iraq probably marks at least the start of imperial overstretch. This phenomenon can be observed in all great empires: Rome, the British, the Habsburg, etc. In all cases, it heralded the collapse of the empire. We'd have to be an empire in order for this to apply. Funny how people like you claim that most of the world thinks like you (hates America, etc...) But it's the world, who is knocking on our boarders trying to get into this "empire" Anarchy is a clear sign of oppression! The Patriot Act allows the US Government to imprison US citizens without Miranda rights, or their other rights under the US Constitution. Could you find me one example of the Patriot Act invading one's civil rights? They can tap my phone, Internet, cable TV, all they want... No shame in my game, I've got nothing to hide! But will they? No... Not enough money, time or people to invade the U.S.'s privacy or civil liberties. If someone is breaking the law, it shouldn't matter that their civil rights were infringed upon! Once they start disobeying the law, they lose those rights! You are oppressed. You just don't see it. The US Government has made it its business to interfere in every little aspect of your life. Look how massive and bloated the budget is. Look at how heavily you are taxed. The US has become a socialist state, and it retains only enough freedom to ensure a little economic growth. Even that is in jeopardy. Nope I'm not oppressed, and definitely do not see it like you! Freedom is not entirely free in any country and always has a price! We do have a bloated budget, and are heavily taxed (what you're repeating, we hear every election year!) but I can still afford cost of living, choice of healthcare, education, vacation, home ownership, etc. May not be the best of everything (I am not rich) but it's mine and I always have a choice. Government is not taking anything away from me. Spare me with the unemployment, uninsured, statistics... We always have room to improve! Some years are good, some are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 So that means you probably do not vote? Because you never have a party running for office! Therefore, you don't rate to talk about politics or "lecture" in your words. I can talk about whatever I want to. And frankly, my end of the discussion is of much higher quality than yours. Funny that anarchy is probably 1% of the worlds population. Maybe because it's not a good thing?? Historical anarchy has always been ended by foreign military force. We'd have to be an empire in order for this to apply. From the American Heritage Dictionary: Empire 1. A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority. Let's see, the USA has very extensive territory, comprises a number of territories or nations (Guantanamo, Puerto Rico, etc), and is ruled by a single supreme authority. Or was the British Empire not really an empire either? Could you find me one example of the Patriot Act invading one's civil rights? Sure. In early April of this year, the ACLU filed suit challenging parts of the Patriot Act, but under the Patriot Act, the ACLU isn't allowed to discuss the lawsuit they filed. If someone is breaking the law, it shouldn't matter that their civil rights were infringed upon! Once they start disobeying the law, they lose those rights! What law? The law that says you have to wear a motorcyle helmet? That you have to have a government permit to be a taxi driver or a landscaper? Nope I'm not oppressed, and definitely do not see it like you! Freedom is not entirely free in any country and always has a price! You've been told that freedom has a price, and you've been duped into it. Anyone who demands you pay them a price for your freedom is not a protector but an extortionist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 Bravo Hugo! Why is it that so many Americans are incapable of distinguishing between pig headed obstinenece and true resiliance? Because we're an independent nation! Those who are insecure say what you just said I think it has more to do with the simple fact that you don't know the difference. Real big of them to release all thos ewrongly imprisoned people. Too bad they waited until after the realities of torture and wrongful imprisonment were made public. Guess they should have thought about who they were hanging around with, when captured! Affiliation by association! Ah yes, a sure way to build trust, win hearts and minds and show the Iraqi people you're there to help them build a democracy. If attitudes and intellects like yours are common, it's no wonder you've cocked up Iraq. If someone is breaking the law, it shouldn't matter that their civil rights were infringed upon! Once they start disobeying the law, they lose those rights! Nope. There's a little thing called the Constitution which theoretically limits the states ability to act against its own citizens. Unfortunately, things like the Patriot Act are chipping away at those protections while idiots like you are too busy filling your head with the latest wisdom from Bill O'Reilly. Freedom is not entirely free in any country and always has a price! And how big a price are you willing to pay? I think I've solved the mystery of BigPoop's credulity. WORLD EDUCATION RANKINGSUNICEF rankings of educational systems in the world's richest countries, indicating the percentage of 14 and 15 year olds scoring below a minimum level in literacy, math and science. 1. South Korea 1.4 percent 2. Japan 2.2 3. Finland 4.4 4. Canada 5 5. Australia 6.2 6. Austria 8.2 7. Britain 9.4 8. Ireland 10.2 9. Sweden 10.8 10. Czech Republic 12.2 - (tie) New Zealand 12.2 12. France 12.6 13. Switzerland 13 14. Belgium 14 - (tie) Iceland 14 16. Hungary 14.2 - (tie) Norway 14.2 18. United States 16.2 19. Germany 17 - (tie) Denmark 17 21. Spain 18.6 22. Italy 20.2 23. Greece 23.2 24. Portugal 23.6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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