PMO paid for Duffy's fraud

[Smallc]

Yes, Saint Duffy did us all a public service

[g_bambino]

He has nothing, but the support of the media. The harper haters are out in force, funny how they have taken duffy's words as gods words,without even asking the man for proof. Harper has now gone into the attack mode and this is going to play right into his hands.

Duffy may be getting (undeserved) the kid glove treatment by the media now, but his (and Wallin's) words have given public exposure to the fact Harper prefers to do his best to subvert some people's fundamental right to due process simply to make a problem go away.

I can't believe how clownish are the Senators who jump when Harper claps, the useful idiots carrying out the elimination of Duffy and Wallin before investigations have been completed. Harper can't make them do anything; they must only be doing what he wants because they have a sychophantic love for him or mistakenly believe he can inflict some kind of punishment upon them.

[ed.: +]

Edited October 25, 2013 by g_bambino

[PIK]

It is a motion and people can vote against it. They should be suspened but with pay untill everything comes out, and that could still happen. And they also found out ,that you piss off the boss, heads will roll. And right now the people are with harper, except the harper haters. So the opp has to becarefull on this one.

[g_bambino]

And they also found out ,that you piss off the boss, heads will roll.

Boss of what?

[jacee]

It is a motion and people can vote against it. They should be suspened but with pay untill everything comes out, and that could still happen. And they also found out ,that you piss off the boss, heads will roll. And right now the people are with harper, ...

You could do just a tiny bit of research before posting such outlandish falsehoods, PIK:

as-senate-scandal-grows-stephen-harpers-conservatives-falling-far-behind-justin-trudeaus-liberals-poll

So the opp has to becarefull on this one.

I think you mean RCMP.

[jacee]

Duffy may be getting (undeserved) the kid glove treatment by the media now, but his (and Wallin's) words have given public exposure to the fact Harper prefers to do his best to subvert some people's fundamental right to due process simply to make a problem go away.

A political "problem".

I agree.

I can't believe how clownish are the Senators who jump when Harper claps, the useful idiots carrying out the elimination of Duffy and Wallin before investigations have been completed. Harper can't make them do anything; they must only be doing what he wants because they have a sychophantic love for him or mistakenly believe he can inflict some kind of punishment upon them.

[ed.: +]

"mistakenly"??

He's certainly showing that he can inflict punishment. Harper giveth senate appointments and Harper is determined he can take them away.

They're all living with the threat of getting sacked now.

Their best plan is to vote against the motions, to take that power away from him.

[scribblet]

You are living in dream land if you think this is a real scandal, it’s third rate at best, driven by the media and opposition. A guy, who was the worst vicarious crook last week, today is your best buddy.

To sum it up

The three musketeers stole public money through illegitimate claims
The PM told them to repay
One of Harper’s employees gave the money to Duffy to pay it back cos Duffy is broke Now the three of them are fighting to keep this money.

The PM wants to kick the 3 of them out
So now the left accuses the PM of (something) for asking the stolen money be paid back and is turning a 4^th rate ‘scandal’ into a circus.

None of these recent revelations proves anything other than what – the PM isn’t as controlling as he’s made out to be. His Staff didn’t inform him of events when they should’ve done ? Mulcair did get it right when he asked why he found out about the plan he didn’t fire the lot of them.

A decent piece here...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jj-mccullough/senate-scandal-duffy-brazeau_b_4151851.html?show_comment_id=295307879#comment_295307879

excerpted

A Few Selfish Senators Do Not a Scandal Make

Ta da! -- the crux of the shocker. The good people of Canada are supposed to be outraged, nay, demand the resignation of their prime minister, over the fact that this country's elected government was more concerned with the opinions of its "base" -- i.e. the voters of Canada -- than upholding the corrupt and loophole-ridden expense rules of a disgusting and worthless political institution with a 5 per cent approval rating.

Responding to the latest allegations in question period the other day, the Prime Minister didn't say much, but what he did say was precisely right: "We've been very clear that we expect all parliamentarians to respect the letter and the spirit of any rules regarding expenses and if they do not respect that, then they can expect there to be consequences and accountability for their actions."

[TimG]

Since Duffy didn't keep quiet, and is cooperating with the police investigation, he'll be in less jeopardy from the law than those who tried to buy his silence for political gain.

Duffy is not one to put himself at risk for the public good. He either has already secured immunity from prosecution which should be disclosed or his legal advice is telling him there is no risk given the facts of the case.

[The_Squid]

Duffy is certainly trying to weasel his way out of this jam.... the question is, is it the truth, or is it lies?

If it is the truth, Harper is in serious trouble, more so than before.

Money to a senator to keep him quiet is clearly illegal. If it is shown that Harper did know about it then he is toast and could be in legal trouble.

If enough people think he should have known, or likely did know, then he is in serious political trouble, but not legal trouble.

[g_bambino]

"mistakenly"??

He's certainly showing that he can inflict punishment.

What? The best he can do is kick a senator out of caucus and say some mean things.

[TimG]

Money to a senator to keep him quiet is clearly illegal.

Ah no. First the money did not go to the senator - it when to the public treasury to pay back expense claims that were likely legitimate under the rules. Second, the only thing senator was asked to do is stop griping about how he was unfairly targeted by being forced to pay back legitimate expenses.

The only way to turn this in a real case of obstruction of justice would to establish that Duffy knowingly defrauded the taxpayer with his claims and the money was to cover up that fraud. All the evidence so far suggests that this is not the case.

Edited October 25, 2013 by TimG

[g_bambino]

Ah no. First the money did not go to the senator - it when to the public treasury to pay back expense claims that were likely legitimate under the rules. Second, the only thing senator was asked to do is stop griping about how he was unfairly targeted by being forced to pay back legitimate expenses.

The only way to turn this in a real case of obstruction of justice would to establish that Duffy knowingly defrauded the taxpayer with his claims and the money was to cover up that fraud. All the evidence so far suggests that this is not the case.

Then why has the Prime Minister been so obtuse, if not downright misleading, about all that?

[scribblet]

Has he really, check out the interview withy John Tory on newstalk 1010 haven't heard it all yet.

[Jimmy Wilson]

His interview with Tory was a fluff piece...

[TimG]

Then why has the Prime Minister been so obtuse, if not downright misleading, about all that?

Because of the same paranoia that led to Harper demanding that Duffy pay back legitimate expenses. i.e. he is worried more about how a story will play in the media than the actual facts.

Frankly, it is looking more and more like Harper is his own worst enemy. This entire episode has been grossly mismanaged.

[g_bambino]

Frankly, it is looking more and more like Harper is his own worst enemy.

Mm... That's what I thought, too, since this isn't the first time.

[Smallc]

Mm... That's what I thought, too, since this isn't the first time.

The Conservatives couldn't communicate their way out of a paper bag...witness the F-35.

[Topaz]

I think if the Tories don't give the senators a chance to defend themselves under oath, many Canadians will see this government as one of China or Russia, where you don't get a chance to defend yourself. I understand why Harper doesn't want to testify under oath, too many more facts will come out so he trying to shut it down. So today, they are still trying to make backroom deals. Apparently, in the radio program Harper had with John Tory, he said "I had known about the pay-off, I never would allowed it to happen!" Really? but it was okay to bribe a MP?? and that make Harper NOT creditable.

[cybercoma]

An Abacus poll out today has the Tories and Liberals tied at 32% amongst those that identify themselves as Middle-Class.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2013/10/24/21220691.html

that's a useful sample.

[The_Squid]

Ah no. First the money did not go to the senator - it when to the public treasury to pay back expense claims that were likely legitimate under the rules. Second, the only thing senator was asked to do is stop griping about how he was unfairly targeted by being forced to pay back legitimate expenses.The only way to turn this in a real case of obstruction of justice would to establish that Duffy knowingly defrauded the taxpayer with his claims and the money was to cover up that fraud. All the evidence so far suggests that this is not the case.

Yes, the money went to senator Duffy. There is no denying that. The cheque was made out to Mike Duffy, not he Receiver General for Canada.

Duffy was also told not to cooperate with an audit.

There was also a promise "to go easy on him".

Your version of the facts omits a few of the pertinent details.

Edited October 26, 2013 by The_Squid

[eyeball]

Because of the same paranoia that led to Harper demanding that Duffy pay back legitimate expenses. i.e. he is worried more about how a story will play in the media than the actual facts.

Play to who, the 'base'? Judging by much of the base around here Harper would have to commit something awfully bloody heinous to blunt it's enthusiastic support.

Frankly, it is looking more and more like Harper is his own worst enemy. This entire episode has been grossly mismanaged.

We've got no one to blame but ourselves for the cost of these debacles because we keep putting up with being governed in this manner. OTHO now that this is occupying the government's time nothing else will be getting done. If nothing moves nothing gets hurt is the way I look at it.

Oil execs or anyone else looking for a tilted playing field these days must be pulling their hair out. Sucks to be them.

Edited October 26, 2013 by eyeball

[jacee]

Duffy is not one to put himself at risk for the public good. He either has already secured immunity from prosecution which should be disclosed or his legal advice is telling him there is no risk given the facts of the case.

Yes it may have been an inadvertent 'public good'.

But Duffy is media. His instinct is to talk.

[Guest Derek L]

If you're against the enemy then you're a friend right?

I can't see how this will stick to Harper in 2015. Especially if he's able to balance the budget and implement the populist things he proposed in the Throne Speech.

An Abacus poll out today has the Tories and Liberals tied at 32% amongst those that identify themselves as Middle-Class.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2013/10/24/21220691.html

Exactly, as I said after the last election, this Government's fortunes are tied to the economy......It's telling really, the Opposition parties have nearly completely left the EU-free trade deal alone, a deal that will effect, good or bad, a great many more Canadians then a handful of crooked Senators, that though this Government selected three of four, are being or have been forced to pay back the money owed to Canadians and are being shown the door……

Edited October 26, 2013 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

You are living in dream land if you think this is a real scandal, it’s third rate at best, driven by the media and opposition. A guy, who was the worst vicarious crook last week, today is your best buddy.

To sum it up

The three musketeers stole public money through illegitimate claims

The PM told them to repay

One of Harper’s employees gave the money to Duffy to pay it back cos Duffy is broke Now the three of them are fighting to keep this money.

The PM wants to kick the 3 of them out

So now the left accuses the PM of (something) for asking the stolen money be paid back and is turning a 4^th rate ‘scandal’ into a circus.

None of these recent revelations proves anything other than what – the PM isn’t as controlling as he’s made out to be. His Staff didn’t inform him of events when they should’ve done ? Mulcair did get it right when he asked why he found out about the plan he didn’t fire the lot of them.

A decent piece here...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jj-mccullough/senate-scandal-duffy-brazeau_b_4151851.html?show_comment_id=295307879#comment_295307879

excerpted

A Few Selfish Senators Do Not a Scandal Make

Ta da! -- the crux of the shocker. The good people of Canada are supposed to be outraged, nay, demand the resignation of their prime minister, over the fact that this country's elected government was more concerned with the opinions of its "base" -- i.e. the voters of Canada -- than upholding the corrupt and loophole-ridden expense rules of a disgusting and worthless political institution with a 5 per cent approval rating.

Responding to the latest allegations in question period the other day, the Prime Minister didn't say much, but what he did say was precisely right: "We've been very clear that we expect all parliamentarians to respect the letter and the spirit of any rules regarding expenses and if they do not respect that, then they can expect there to be consequences and accountability for their actions."

Good pick-up.....I have to admit being surprised to see that from the Huff-Post......

A very good point from the piece:

But it's also a defense for a charge no one's really making. Duffy and friends could have pretended they were living on Mars for all anyone cares. The problem was that they used this lie, this claim to be living further away from Ottawa than they actually were, as a phony pretext for plunging their sticky fingers in to the Senate's travel and living expense cookie jar.

And of course:

Every word of that statement wonderfully illustrates just how pathetically weak the Duffy-Brazeau defenses are, and why I'm supremely skeptical this scandal will prove to be the giant-killer many in the press are anticipating (hoping?).

And to sum it up:

For whatever stumbles and misstatements and cover-ups were made along the way, at its core, the Prime Minister's role in the Senate expense affair is a story about the elected head of the government of Canada demanding some shred of accountability and ethics from a crooked political institution whose members believe they have no obligation to provide either.

That's not a scandal.

No one can accuse the Huff-Post of being a right-wing rag.......Yet I'm pleased to find some in the media, from both ends of the political spectrum, calling out the kool-aide drinkers in the MSM and putting the entire thing in perspective.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Derek L

[On Guard for Thee]

Duffy is certainly trying to weasel his way out of this jam.... the question is, is it the truth, or is it lies?

If it is the truth, Harper is in serious trouble, more so than before.

Money to a senator to keep him quiet is clearly illegal. If it is shown that Harper did know about it then he is toast and could be in legal trouble.

If enough people think he should have known, or likely did know, then he is in serious political trouble, but not legal trouble.

You have made some very good points.

As you say there are two different problems basically for Harper: Legal-if he knew about the check, he was abetting a crime. If he really didn't know, he could be brought into court to testify that. And then Political-if he didn't know, why didn't he know and why is he all of a sudden coming down hard on his hand picked people? Perhaps to sweep sweep.

And then there is the vote next week which brings both of those things together-if they vote to expel I reckon they are going to find out they don't have the authority to do so, and then into to court, and if they lose the vote, clearly a split in Harpers caucus, and back to the 6 o'clock news.

Quite a whirlwind we are paying for whilst nothing gets done. Stay tuned.