NDP Move to the Center?

[RNG]

I am just cynical enough to fear that the NDP now are developing a hidden agenda. This CBC story suggests Mulcair is trying to move them to the center. But given what I know about him I suspect it is far from a change in his political philosophy but a blatant admission that they aren't that popular and this is a means of attracting more votes.

Removing the word Socialism from their constitution would make a lot of older NDP/CCFers spin.

From CBC, rest of article here

NDP debates taking socialism out of party constitution

Effort to modernize preamble to party consitution expected to cause debate

Edited April 14, 2013 by RNG

[Sleipnir]

This CBC story suggests Mulcair is trying to move them to the center.

CBC is wrong, the new preamble is to number of things:

1) updating the wording from the 20th to the 21st century.

2) clarifying the summary of the party, previously it was a few sentences blurb.

The NDP are still center-left.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Sleipnir

[Guest]

When did he change his name to Tom?

[Bugs]

Peter Kormos died. Maybe its that simple. He was probably the last 1930's type socialist in the party.

The NDP is debating a constitutional amendment to replace the party's historic goal of creating a society based on the idea of " ... from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". You know, Communist Manifesto stuff. How outdated is that?

The new goal is championing "a rules-based economy ... in which governments have the power to address the limitations of the market." (Thomas Walkom, NDP on yet another mission quest. Stay tuned. (Toronto Star, Saturday, April 6th, 2013, p. A8).

What's the point? We are so far from free markets that it's a joke. This is all about getting elected, stupid! It isn't as if principles have much relationship to actual practice, anyway -- for any of our parties.

But, for the NDP, the line might as well be removed, for the sake of honest expression of whatever the party deems to be useful in beguiling the politically unsophisticated -- university students and their ilk -- to the party of mid-level civil servants. It isn't as if they stand for anything beyond more jobs and bigger salaries in the public sector.

The very idea of the NDP continuing to have 'socialist principles' is amusing. However, if in the NDP constitution remained the same, it would demonstrate to the world that ‘the party’ holds to an exotic, utopian philosophy with no real basis in Canadian life.

My prediction: It will be replaced by unprincipled branding, focus-group tested buzz-words, new slogans, and a big marketing push, and the media will pretend that some kind of mystical renewal has taken place. Magic thinking.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Bugs

[Moonlight Graham]

CBC is wrong, the new preamble is to number of things:

1) updating the wording from the 20th to the 21st century.

Ya, because being a socialist/communist party (democratic or not) is not very appealing to most voters in Canada these days lol. Federally they were historically a bit of a niche party. Now more than ever they realize they need to become more broadly appealing if they want to actually govern federally. The NDP sniff a chance to govern, this is their way of getting closer to that. "Democratic socialism" is rightfully a bit concerning and radical to many Canadians.

The NDP are still center-left.

They're a left-wing party pure and simple. What is "center" about them? They're clearly left of the Liberals, who are left or centre-left themselves.

[Archanfel]

Ya, because being a socialist/communist party (democratic or not) is not very appealing to most voters in Canada these days lol. Federally they were historically a bit of a niche party. Now more than ever they realize they need to become more broadly appealing if they want to actually govern federally. The NDP sniff a chance to govern, this is their way of getting closer to that. "Democratic socialism" is rightfully a bit concerning and radical to many Canadians.

They're a left-wing party pure and simple. What is "center" about them? They're clearly left of the Liberals, who are left or centre-left themselves.

It's center because the Conservatives would be a left-wing party if "center" was an absolute term. In fact, I would call the Republicans left wing given it shamelessly supports social welfare. In Canada, "center" is somewhere between socialist and communist.

[Moonbox]

This is a response to Trudeau. Layton and the NDP's proverbial blip on the radar of relevancy are going to get smashed in by Trudeau's smile, and this is something Mulcair and his party are terrified about. They'll go from official opposition to fringe party next election and they're scrambling to avoid it.

[BubberMiley]

They're a left-wing party pure and simple. What is "center" about them?

But if you actually look at a real-world example of the NDP in government, in Manitoba for the past 14 years, what is not "centre" about them? Taxes went down from when the PCs were in power. The civil service has been in a long-term hiring freeze and wages have been near frozen. If that's left wing, your idea of right wing must be very scary.

[hitops]

But if you actually look at a real-world example of the NDP in government, in Manitoba for the past 14 years, what is not "centre" about them? Taxes went down from when the PCs were in power. The civil service has been in a long-term hiring freeze and wages have been near frozen. If that's left wing, your idea of right wing must be very scary.

I'm not sure what is centrist about our Manitoba government. I moved here from sask 5 years ago, and it has a distinctly socialist vibe. The usual trappings are there - a lot complainers, culture of lack of initiative and entitlement, high taxes. Right now we have one of the only payroll taxes in the country, one of the highest top marginal rates and one of if not the lowest threshold for entering that bracket at $67K. Taken in concert, pretty much the worst taxation scheme in the nation apart from Quebec. The government also, of course, has no ability to manage a budget and is dependent on Alberta for handouts every year,

I can't find information about historical tax rates, can you link me? I can't imagine the taxation could have been worse but I would be interested in finding out.

[PIK]

Dig down deeper and you will see they are still talking about nationalizing the banks and energy sector, centre my ass.

[Sleipnir]

Ya, because being a socialist/communist party (democratic or not) is not very appealing to most voters in Canada these days lol.

You really don't know much about canadian politics. In the early to mid 1900s the CCF and NDP fought hard to expell communists from unions across canada and from within the party.

In fact, the fighting went as far as the communist party partnering with the Federal Liberals during the election in the early 1990s. The purpose of the communist-liberal partnership was to beat the CCF into submission.

Why did the Liberals joined the communist? To avoid the left wing party from stealing votes from the center oriented party.

Why were the communist fighting the CCF? Because they believe the party betrayed the marxist values. Keep in mind that CCF were more left wing than the modern NDP.

If my post seems weird it because I'm texting this.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Sleipnir

[Moonlight Graham]

You really don't know much about canadian politics...

Well here's what I said yesterday:

Ya, because being a socialist/communist party (democratic or not) is not very appealing to most voters in Canada these days lol. Federally they were historically a bit of a niche party. Now more than ever they realize they need to become more broadly appealing if they want to actually govern federally. The NDP sniff a chance to govern, this is their way of getting closer to that. "Democratic socialism" is rightfully a bit concerning and radical to many Canadians.

And here's what Thomas Mulcair said in today's Ottawa Citizen about the NDP's newly changed constitution:

“A lot of Canadians share our vision and our goals in the NDP. We just gotta make sure that by modernizing, by using the language that resonates with a wider public in Canada, that we’ll be able to do what we have to do, which is to defeat Stephen Harper’s Conservatives in 2015.”

Pretty much exactly what I said above. Ok fine I shouldn't have used the term "communism" since the NDP have never really described themselves as such.

[PIK]

You really don't know much about canadian politics. In the early to mid 1900s the CCF and NDP fought hard to expell communists from unions across canada and from within the party.

In fact, the fighting went as far as the communist party partnering with the Federal Liberals during the election in the early 1990s. The purpose of the communist-liberal partnership was to beat the CCF into submission.

Why did the Liberals joined the communist? To avoid the left wing party from stealing votes from the center oriented party.

Why were the communist fighting the CCF? Because they believe the party betrayed the marxist values. Keep in mind that CCF were more left wing than the modern NDP.

If my post seems weird it because I'm texting this.

They have a open commusnist in thier ranks right now, that one that dissed out soldiers during vimy ridge and the 1st war and how the commies were the real winners. And mulcair never came out to say anything on it.

[RNG]

In fact, the fighting went as far as the communist party partnering with the Federal Liberals during the election in the early 1990s. The purpose of the communist-liberal partnership was to beat the CCF into submission.

Why did the Liberals joined the communist? To avoid the left wing party from stealing votes from the center oriented party.

Why were the communist fighting the CCF? Because they believe the party betrayed the marxist values. Keep in mind that CCF were more left wing than the modern NDP.

Now there's a bit of Canadian and Liberal history I wasn't aware of. Chretien being communist stooge. I love it.

[Keepitsimple]

By North American, if not G20 standards...when a party triesto remove bare-faced Socialism from its party pre-amble, it is simply trying to move from the FAR Left to the Left.

[Sleipnir]

Now there's a bit of Canadian and Liberal history I wasn't aware of. Chretien being communist stooge. I love it.

Sorry typo, I mean 1900s not 1990s.

[Sleipnir]

They have a open commusnist in thier ranks right now, that one that dissed out soldiers during vimy ridge and the 1st war and how the commies were the real winners. And mulcair never came out to say anything on it.

Do you even know what it means to be a communist, or are you just stereoptying?

[jacee]

They have a open commusnist in thier ranks right now, that one that dissed out soldiers during vimy ridge and the 1st war and how the commies were the real winners.

Hunh?

What the hell does some wacko matter?

The Conservatives have Tom Flanagan!

[Newfoundlander]

Mulcair's hidden agenda.

[Archanfel]

By North American, if not G20 standards...when a party triesto remove bare-faced Socialism from its party pre-amble, it is simply trying to move from the FAR Left to the Left.

Is this the same North America where people get free money from the government? Sounds like socialism to me. Actually, I would say that's communism since socialism at least requires people to work to their abilities.

G20 is a different story.

[Guest Kenneth]

The NDP has always had a hidden agenda - who really believes that they're "social democrats"?

[Keepitsimple]

I take it you're expressing outrage with Employment Insurance, Welfare, and Canada Pension and believe they should not exist. Can't even think of a reply for that one.

Is this the same North America where people get free money from the government? Sounds like socialism to me. Actually, I would say that's communism since socialism at least requires people to work to their abilities.

G20 is a different story.