Republicans abandon interest in defence

[bush_cheney2004]

...In answer to your question, we don't need to whore ourselves to anyone. In fact, we could simply grow a backbone and stop whoring ourselves to the US. Chretien managed it when he declined to take part in a stupid, illegal invasion of Iraq. Luckily, Chairman Harper hadn't assumed his virtual dictatorship yet.

No, in fact PM Chretien completed the NAFTA hat trick started by PM Mulroney...because it is about the money and always will be, because it means about $1.5 billion per day in cross border trade. Money talks...and BS walks.

[bush_cheney2004]

As a proportion of population, more Canadians died in WWII than Americans.

So what ? You can't win a penis measuring contest on proportions. The Allies won WW2, and some countries contributed a lot more than others in total blood and treasure.

However, I wasn't talking about Canadians when I referred to the main participants. WWII was largely a war of attrition between Germany and the USSR. If the Soviet Union hadn't bled the Germans, I don't believe for a moment that there would have been landings on Normandy. Your great tales of valour were only possible because of the sacrifices of you enemies, the Soviets.

The United States supported the Soviets (and British) with significant war materials essential to the prosecution of the war against Axis powers. Nothing you post here can change this.

You want to talk about complicity? Some of Hitler's most ardent admirers were American industrialists (Henry Ford, Thomas Watson among them). Without IBM support, the holocaust would not have been possible in its scale.

Oh, you mean like Sir Newton Moore, president of the Dominion Steel & Coal Corporation ? Canadian industrialists liked to make money then and still do. The mining of the planet continues with Canadian firms in the lead.

[Guest Derek L]

Tell me about a time they aided us in our defence. No, I don't consider our proximity to the world's most heavily armed country an asset.

All the defence treaties that we are mutual signatories of, coupled with the majority of the equipment our own armed forces use.

I haven't chided anyone - I've stated the facts. You were claiming that they were defending us. I'm simply pointing out they were acting only in their own best interest. Also, as I've mentioned earlier, being next to them has not made us safer. In a nuclear exchange with Russia, both sides would be lobbing missiles over our heads. Does that make you feel safer?? Since most of our large cities are in proximity of the southern border, we would suffer a lot of "collateral damage". Also due to our proximity, terrorists come to us simply to try to get to them.

In answer to your question, we don't need to whore ourselves to anyone. In fact, we could simply grow a backbone and stop whoring ourselves to the US. Chretien managed it when he declined to take part in a stupid, illegal invasion of Iraq. Luckily, Chairman Harper hadn't assumed his virtual dictatorship yet.

Clearly the Russian never lobbed missiles, this can be attributed to American missiles that would have been lobbed back…………Seemed like Canadians weren’t worse for wear being next to the United States………

As to your second point on Iraq (or one could add Vietnam) we clearly didn’t get openly dragged into a US conflict……….Yet Canadian defence manufactures made a fortune off both wars………And well, ole Jean might have told “W” to pound sand on Iraq, during the invasion, a third of our fleet was in the Persian Gulf for the kick-off, coupled with RCAF Auroras patrolling the Gulf and Arabian Sea under the auspices of the war on terror….

The point I suppose, our relationship is much more complex then you purport, well also having no measurable negative side effects.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The point I suppose, our relationship is much more complex then you purport, well also having no measurable negative side effects.

Indeed not, or Ontariario / Canada wouldn't be all hot and bothered to finance/build a new bridge across the Detroit River, harmonize border security, and get better Netflix choices !

Edited March 11, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

My comment was in response to the idea that Americans claim that the Soviet Union "forced" the U.S. to do it

Okay, so no one forced you to support some of the worst dictatorships the planet has ever seen - you supported them of your own free will.

Now Republicans are giving up that effort. Good, it's about time.

[bush_cheney2004]

Okay, so no one forced you to support some of the worst dictatorships the planet has ever seen - you supported them of your own free will.

Yes.....as did/do many other nations, including Canada. Own it....

Now Republicans are giving up that effort. Good, it's about time.

I doubt that.....dictators can often be useful. Think of it as "transitional" leadership.

[eyeball]

Yes.....as did/do many other nations, including Canada. Own it....

There you go, balance your self-worthlessness against the failings of others. Why own when you can lease?

I doubt that.....dictators can often be useful. Think of it as "transitional" leadership.

Just don't ever call it a root cause or just dessert.

[bush_cheney2004]

There you go, balance your self-worthlessness against the failings of others. Why own when you can lease?

Because I like to drive them into the ground.

Just don't ever call it a root cause or just dessert.

Never did......dessert is part of a splendid meal.

[Guest American Woman]

Okay, so no one forced you to support some of the worst dictatorships the planet has ever seen - you supported them of your own free will.

Just as no one forced Canada to do anything, including the same. Which was my point.

[eyeball]

Whatever your point was you voiced it in response to something Derek said not me - I've never been one to deny or trivialize my government's complicity in the west's support for dictatorships - but you already know that and your inability and unwillingness to own your government's actions still stands undefended.

[xul]

Machines don't kill people....people kill people.

Those machines defend people.

Unfortunately, the cost-effectiveness of these machines' ability of killing / defending "people" is no longer as positive as it used to be.

F-35 for example. This killing machine is a great achievement of political-scientific-engineering-technical-....-correctness but a catastrophe of cost-effective control. How on earth a machine would kill / defend people even if people couldn't afford to buy it?

[eyeball]

Unfortunately, the cost-effectiveness of these machines' ability of killing / defending "people" is no longer as positive as it used to be.

Much like the cost effectiveness of the west's geo-political diddling in Afghanistan et al.

[DogOnPorch]

Much like the cost effectiveness of the west's geo-political diddling in Afghanistan et al.

15 mt should have done the trick. Apologize once.

Edited March 15, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

So you would rather “fight terrorists” within the confines of your own home like the Israelis? Seems to me, Iraq and Afghanistan became magnets for radical Islamists…….I’d much prefer them blowing themselves up over there then over here…

they became magnets AFTER. Kind of like how Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and now Syria are a hot spot for terrorists .. sorry freedom fighters. The terrorists did not move into Iraq until after the invasion in 2006. Sure they were there in Afghanistan.

But here is the think that has been hashed over many times. Remember when Bin Laden said the reason why they are attacking is that the west has meddled in Arabic affairs for too long. So when the towers fell, it was called BLOWBACK.

Things like the PATRIOT Act and NDAA, now can classify innocent Americans as terrorists within their own border.

Entities like the CIA are terrorist organizations if you look at how a terror group and the CIA work. That has been going on for quite some time, and then blowback happens, and people are still confused about why the towers fell?

Screw it, we don't need to learn any kind of history. Just go with the official story no matter how much it contradicts itself.

[eyeball]

15 mt should have done the trick. Apologize once.

No doubt someone somewhere is thinking the same thing about the west. You should be careful about what you wish for.

[DogOnPorch]

Osama...the bigot...was mad that unclean non-Muslims were sullying the sacred sands of Saudi Arabia.

[DogOnPorch]

No doubt someone somewhere is thinking the same thing about the west. You should be careful about what you wish for.

You don't want to see America truly mad. My point.

[eyeball]

I don't know, I recall seeing and hearing a few Americans on the news in the hours and days following 9/11 who thought America should just turn it's back on the world and bring everything home and let the world's chips fall where they may.

[DogOnPorch]

I don't know, I recall seeing and hearing a few Americans on the news in the hours and days following 9/11 who thought America should just turn it's back on the world and bring everything home and let the world's chips fall where they may.

Isolationist or World Police? Where will America go next? However, a terrorist attack that knocks off another 3000+...we'll see what happens, eh?

[ReeferMadness]

You don't want to see America truly mad. My point.

Too late. If there is a place on earth where madness rules.....

Like Newtown, for example.

[bush_cheney2004]

You don't want to see America truly mad. My point.

Nope...surely don't. The main difference between Canada and the U.S.A. is not only the means, but the will to do so. Think it ain't ?