Israel Forcibly Injected African Immigrants with Birth Control

[Hudson Jones]

Considering the time frame that most Ethiopians emigrated to Israel, a natural drop in reproduction in the past ten years makes sense. There are more than twice as many Ethiopian women in the work force as compared to ten years ago, too. It's not as if Ethiopian women haven't made other changes in their lives or are having drastically fewer children than the rest of Israel - in fact, their birth rate is higher.

Ethiopians have migrated to Israel in 5 waves since the 1930's. This 50% sudden drop in birthrate, within a decade is shockingly huge and does not follow any pattern of natural cultural change. There is evidence that Israel misled and coerced Ethiopian women into being injected with Depo Provera. From when they left Ethiopia, during their stays in the interim camps and continued through their migration into Israel. To add to the severity of the situation, the Israeli government admitted to such a practice and gave a formal order to stop the treatment. Considering this information, you are still trying to say that this "may" be due to natural cultural adaptation and change.

Israel took in Ethiopians due to a crisis in their homeland.

These are Ethiopian Jews, who, supposedly, have a right just like any Jew to live in Israel. So Israel is obligated by its own law to take them in. It has been anything but a welcoming process.

Do you think they did that because they hate blacks?

There is a very large portion of Israelis who do hate blacks. The many delays in allowing the Jewish Ethiopians to enter Israel, when it takes a fraction of that time to allow a Jew from the West to enter Israel. Then of course, there is the latest disgusting behaviour of a portion of Israelis, which included Knesset members, towards the immigrants and refugees from Africa was a perfect example of Israel's racist behaviour.

As I pointed out, Ethiopians in Ethiopia are giving birth at a rate of 43 per 1000 population, one of the highest birth rates in the world. Do you think they continue that practice once they emigrate - and their children, as they come of childbearing age, wouldn't tend to be more in line with the general population of the country they emigrated to?

This point is moot because we are not comparing the birthrate of Ethiopians in Ethiopia from 10 years ago. We are comparing the birthrate of Ethiopian Israelis now to Ethiopian Israelis from 10 years ago. You need to comprehend this point, so you would stop repeating the same meaningless argument you are trying make.

I'm basing my comments on reality. I've shown that women are tending to have fewer babies in developed nations, where they have more choices.

Again, see the point above. We have always been comparing Ethiopians in Israel. They have always had the same choices. Even prior to 10 years ago.

The key words there are "a large percentage of them who have been interviewed," because the number of those who have been interviewed is a very small percentage of the whole. Yet no other criteria is being considered for the drop in their birth rate - it's being assumed that it's all due to all Ethiopian women being forced to have Depo provera shots.

It has been done. From the numerous people who have confirmed this practice, it's obvious that it had/has been systematic practice. The government's order to stop is admitting to the practice.

I've acknowledged the wrong doing on Israel's part, but that doesn't mean it accounts completely for the lower birth rate. You, on the other hand, refuse to believe that any other factors could possibly be at play here

The fact that 50% of the birthrate dropped during when the Israeli birth control practice started and when the Western world cultural factor has always been there in the Israeli Ethiopian community, well before 10 years ago, to me, and any person who won't deny reality, would be enough to accept that they major factor for this dramatic drop in birthrate is due to Israel's ugly practice of forced and coerced birth control.

Immigration of Ethiopian Jews in Israel occurred mainly between 1990-1999: 47% and 2000-2008 - 34%, so 1/3 arrived in the last decade. As I pointed out, there are twice as many Ethiopian women in the workforce now, too, compared to ten years ago. You think there might be some correlation between birth rates and women in the work force? Also, what about the immigrants that arrived between the 1980-1989 influx (19%) - who would now be of child-bearing age along with those who arrived in the early 90's? How does their birth rate compare to past birth rates? As more Ethiopian Israelis are Israeli born, what effect it that having?

We have no actual figures to compare. We don't even know what the birth rate was ten years ago or what it is now. We just have the "50% less" figure. Why is that? I'd like to know how high the birth rate was 10 years ago, and the age that most women were having children. Is it that the women who were having the most babies previous to the past ten years have passed child bearing years?

Before you try to deal and lobby assumptions, why not deal and accept the information we have from this situation:

- Over 30 women have given their account of a systematic plan to control the birth rate of Ethiopians

- The government of Israel has admitted to this practice by ordering the practice to stop

- A 50% birthrate drop in only 10 years is a shockingly dramatic drop in birthrate

- This sharp drop-off coincides with the arrival of the last wave of immigration of Ethiopian Jews and the start of the depro-vera practice.

There are so many unanswered questions as way too many people are drawing ludicrous conclusions, because the idea that Israel would go out of the way to bring the Ethiopians to Israel and then be try to kill off their race is ludicrous at best.

The only reason they have finally arrived in Israel is because they are Jewish. Many in Israel have fought hard to keep them out. This explains the reason why it takes Jewish Ethiopians so much longer to migrate to Israel than other Jews.

It can also be attributed to other factors, such as freedom of choice. It also fits in with the general trend of a decline in birth rates in our developed countries. The idea that Ethiopians would continue to reproduce at the same high rate as they live in their new country, entering the work force, is rather ignorant, IMO.

50% drop in 10 years. Your assumption doesn't make sense and doesn't respond to the huge sudden drop.

Again, it's not that sudden considering the time frames - and women do change their cultural practices when the emigrate.

It is sudden and a BIG drop. Despite having started immigration to Israel from the 1930's and have always been exposed to the Israeli culture, you want people to believe that everyone all of a sudden decided to have less children, while trying to minimize the real reason, which is the admitted birth control practice by Israel.

You can ignore that all you like, but it speaks volumes of those who flat out refuse to acknowledge anything outside of their 'hate on Israel' mindset. Again, the idea that Israel would try to kill off a population that it went out its way to save is beyond ludicrous - and, ironically, it encompasses a bias that Israel is being accused of.

Israel did not go out of its way to bring them in. As mentioned before, these are Jews and any Jew has the right to go to Israel. If anything, Israel has made it extremely difficult for Ethiopian Jews to immigrate to Israel.

Israel did not commit the act that it is being accused of. No matter how wrong or misguided it was, it's not what it's being made out to be. And yes, enlightened, democratic nations make mistakes too - the difference is that such countries correct their mistakes, as Israel did in this instance.

This is a 'mistake' that an enlightened, democratic nation does not make. Not in this day and age. Imagine if we heard this news happening in U.S. or Canada or another Western country. It would be such a shock and unacceptable. Imagine hearing that 30 Mexican women, who were trying to migrate into the U.S. were coerced and forced into getting injected so that they wouldn't have children.

Sadly, as terrible and disgusting this practice has been, it's somehow not shocking for Israel to commit it.

[DogOnPorch]

Interesting...repeats what I've noticed. Either it's reported as Dr Mengele coming back with depo shots or something quite a bit more rational. Depends on what one's agenda is, I suppose. Bud and Hudson dearly hope for the worst...even insisting on the worst...when there's very little real evidence that folks are ACTUALLY being 'forcibly injected' or 'sterilized'. But no matter. The cage is open and the monster released. Job done.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100200874/how-true-is-it-that-israel-deceitfully-gave-ethiopian-jews-birth-control-injections/

[DogOnPorch]

Heh...as one commenter so aptly put in in that blog:

....next thing you know people will be accusing Jews of illegal organ trafficking.

[jbg]

The only reason they have finally arrived in Israel is because they are Jewish. Many in Israel have fought hard to keep them out. This explains the reason why it takes Jewish Ethiopians so much longer to migrate to Israel than other Jews.

****************************

Israel did not go out of its way to bring them in. As mentioned before, these are Jews and any Jew has the right to go to Israel. If anything, Israel has made it extremely difficult for Ethiopian Jews to immigrate to Israel.

How else did they get to Israel, on a flying carpet? The Government used all of its military and intelligence assets to bring them in.

[Guest American Woman]

The only reason they have finally arrived in Israel is because they are Jewish. Many in Israel have fought hard to keep them out. This explains the reason why it takes Jewish Ethiopians so much longer to migrate to Israel than other Jews.[...]

Israel did not go out of its way to bring them in. As mentioned before, these are Jews and any Jew has the right to go to Israel. If anything, Israel has made it extremely difficult for Ethiopian Jews to immigrate to Israel.

Really? Didn't go out of their way, eh?

On May 25, 1991, nearly 15,000 Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel. This constituted almost the entire Falasha population. The massive airlift took place in less than 36 hours. The distance from Ethiopia is more than 1,500 miles. It took 40 flights to complete the mission. The Israeli Air Force said that it took 35 civilian and military planes including one Ethiopian airliner. According to the New York Times, at one point there were 28 planes in the air. The planes were loaded far beyond their normal carrying capacity, often there was 2-3 people in a seat. An El-Al 747 cargo plane carried more than twice as many passengers as it was designed for. A crew of doctors and paramedics were on board for every flight. Five babies were born aboard the planes. Nurses waited as the planes landed to take sick people to hospitals and put newborn babies in incubators. In addition, 16,000 Ethiopian Jews were airlifted in secret in 1984.

Most of the airlift took place on the Sabbath. (Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.) There were no complaints from any religious authorities though. The torah actually encourages the breaking of the Sabbath if it is to save a life, and because of the political situation in Ethiopia, the religious officials considered the operation to be life-saving.

http://debate.uvm.ed...ebardfield.html

I would say that's going "out of their way" to bring them safely to Israel; as I said, it's ludicrous to suggest that Israel would then turn around and try to eliminate them through forced birth control/sterilization/genocide.

Sadly, as terrible and disgusting this practice has been, it's somehow not shocking for Israel to commit it.

Sadly, as terrible and disgusting at the accusations are, it's somehow not shocking that some people are driven solely by their hatred of Israel.

[jbg]

Really? Didn't go out of their way, eh?

**************

I would say that's going "out of their way" to bring them safely to Israel; as I said, it's ludicrous to suggest that Israel would then turn around and try to eliminate them through forced birth control/sterilization/genocide.

Sadly, as terrible and disgusting at the accusations are, it's somehow not shocking that some people are driven solely by their hatred of Israel.

It's very hard to have any kind of a productive discussion with a bigot.

Edited February 10, 2013 by jbg

[Hudson Jones]

It's very hard to have any kind of a productive discussion with a bigot.

The sheer arrogance and pettiness to call someone a bigot after trying to explain away and justify forcing birth control on a group of people. After displaying such contempt for Palestinians and again, excusing and justifying Israel's behaviour, you dare to call anyone a bigot?

[Hudson Jones]

I'm happy that you have finally stopped using the comparison of Ethiopians living in Ethiopia and Ethiopians living in Israel.

[/size]

Really? Didn't go out of their way, eh?

They had to do that. These were Jews and if they didn't make a move, the whole premise of law of return and why Israel was created would not make sense. Israel gives big incentives to many Jews around the world to move to Israel. It's a system and obligation to bring all Jews to Israel. Except that there is a problem; Some Israelis don't really see the Ethiopian Jews as real Jews and they see them as a lower race. They prefer that they do not increase in population. Israeli racism is not just towards the Arabs.

So how does Israel respond to the fear of the population increase of the undesirables? They create a program where women are forced and coerced into taking an injection to reduce the Ethiopian community's birth rate. They succeeded in reducing the birthrate by 50% in only 10 years.

But then Israel was caught red-handed doing an action so incredibly wrong, that the government of Israel acknowledges that it happens and orders it to stop.

I would say that's going "out of their way" to bring them safely to Israel; as I said, it's ludicrous to suggest that Israel would then turn around and try to eliminate them through forced birth control/sterilization/genocide.

Israel did turn around and it reduced the Ethiopian Israeli birthrate by 50% in only 10 years. As the evidence shows, there was a systematic plan to force and coerce Ethiopian women to receive birth control injections.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[jacee]

The Ethiopians who were brought in have no education and are largely unemployable. Still they have the right, as Jewis, to refuge. That does not mean that Israel should get the dubious privilege of subsidizing their internal population explosion.

Quite shocking, jbg.

The oppressed have become the oppressor.

Israel did not commit the act that it is being accused of. No matter how wrong or misguided it was, it's not what it's being made out to be. And yes, enlightened, democratic nations make mistakes too - the difference is that such countries correct their mistakes, as Israel did in this instance.

Well, which is it?

Israel didn't do it, or Israel did it and then corrected its "mistake"?

Edited February 13, 2013 by jacee

[Guest American Woman]

Well, which is it?

Israel didn't do it, or Israel did it and then corrected its "mistake"?

Repeating: Israel did not commit the act that it is being accused of. No matter how wrong or misguided it was, it's not what it's being made out to be.

[GostHacked]

It's very hard to have any kind of a productive discussion with a bigot.

Also hard to have a productive discussion with a self proclaimed eugenicist.

[jacee]

Repeating: Israel did not commit the act that it is being accused of.

No matter how wrong or misguided it was, it's not what it's being made out to be.

What was "it"?

Awfully quiet AmWo. No answer?

Edited February 15, 2013 by jacee

[DogOnPorch]

What was "it"?

Isn't it dragging living babies from the wombs of women and such? I get my Blood Libels mixed-up, mind you.

[jbg]

Also hard to have a productive discussion with a self proclaimed eugenicist.

Ever discuss that with Tommy Douglas?

[GostHacked]

Ever discuss that with Tommy Douglas?

Have you?

[Hudson Jones]

Israel Forcibly Injected African Immigrants with Birth Control

This is wrong. Not sure why there are people here trying to defend Israel's action of forcibly injecting African immigrants with birth control.

[DogOnPorch]

Israel Forcibly Injected African Immigrants with Birth Control

This is wrong. Not sure why there are people here trying to defend Israel's action of forcibly injecting African immigrants with birth control.

I don't think anybody here is claiming such a practice wouldn't be wrong. What is contested is whether or not Israel is actually holding folks down and injecting them with depo-provera as you suggest. Seems to be a rather one sided picture and as I've pointed out, it does not take into account similar claims in countries other than Israel. Canada for example. Nor does it take into account a very important point I brought up re: the relationship between depo-provera and areas with Sickle Cell Anemia...like Ethiopia. Instead, you push forward with the ol' Blood Libel akin to Jews cooking up Motzo with the blood of children. So...unless you have an agenda to NOT look at all the angles, I have to wonder why you ignore such realities.

[Guest American Woman]

The articles I've read about this have conflicting figures. Some say the Ethiopian birth rate in Israel has dropped by 50% in ten years. Others say it's dropped by 20%. Still others say it's dropped 20-50%. Which brings me back to the fact that there are no figures backing the claim up. Where is it coming from? Is it simply a claim by activists? And what proof do they have that the decline is due to "forced birth control?" From what I can see, they haven't even considered any other reasons; they haven't taken any other reasons into account at all.

"Eyal and other activists say that the birth rate in the Ethiopian community in Israel has halved in the past 10 years."

"...many women’s and immigrant rights advocates believe that the 50 percent decline over the past 10 years in the birthrate of Israel’s Ethiopian community is the result of the Israeli government’s attempt to limit and restrict Ethiopian women’s fertility through forcible birth control injections. "

Just because some people "say" and "believe" something doesn't make it true.

Typically, high birth rates are associated with health problems, low life expectancy, lowliving standards, low social status for women and low educational levels.

Education Leads to Lower Fertility and Increased Prosperity ... Fertility rates tend to be highest in the world's least developed countries.

As has been pointed out, the percentage of Ethiopian women in the work force in Israel has increased. More are getting an education. More are also having abortions. None of this was taken into account by those who clearly have an agenda. Nor was the fact that injection is the preferred choice of birth control in Ethiopia.

That some women felt as if they had to have the injection, that they didn't fully understand, is wrong. But it's not what it's being made out to be - and if Israel were forcing Ethiopian women to be injected with birth control, it wold follow that there would be zero births. That Ethiopian women are having fewer babies in Israel than they did in the past, follows the norm of birth rate patterns in developed countries.

Edited February 16, 2013 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

actually holding folks down and injecting them with depo-provera as you suggest.

You can force people to do things they otherwise wouldn't without "actually holding folks down and injecting them." You've still completely missed what I was saying earlier.

[DogOnPorch]

You can force people to do things they otherwise wouldn't without "actually holding folks down and injecting them." You've still completely missed what I was saying earlier.

But still forced...against their will. Not of these women's choosing. So somehow it is given...injection is the method. In the arm under the muscle tissue. How so if not held down? Gun to head?

[Hudson Jones]

A reminder about Israel's action.

Genocide is defined as:

...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

( Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes, we've already determined you view this as similar to Jews cooking children for Motzo.

[cybercoma]

Yes, we've already determined you view this as similar to Jews cooking children for Motzo.

It's pretty clear that it fits the UN definition of genocide. Israel admitted to wrongdoing and says it will stop. So, your argument suggests that Israel is lying when they admitted to wrongdoing.

[Guest American Woman]

It's pretty clear that it fits the UN definition of genocide. Israel admitted to wrongdoing and says it will stop. So, your argument suggests that Israel is lying when they admitted to wrongdoing.

When did Israel admit to "imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group?" What Israel admitted to is injecting Ethiopian Israelis with Depo Provera, and what it says will stop is providing Depo Provera as a method of birth control - "not to renew prescriptions for Depo-Provera for women of Ethiopian origin if for any reason there is concern that they might not understand the ramifications of the treatment.” (I wonder how many Ethiopian Israeli women are upset by that?) If Israel admitted to "wrongdoing," it certainly didn't add up to "genocide." Israel admitted to no such thing.

Good article: Israeli Outlets Foment Demonization With Sloppy Journalism

[DogOnPorch]

Canada "injects women with Depo Provera". Apparently without fully disclosing its effects...thus the lawsuit against the maker.