Hudson Jones Posted January 24, 2013 Report Posted January 24, 2013 Watching the mainstream media, I do wonder how many Americans actually know about what happens. I also wonder what they would think if they knew the effects. Here is a sobering reminder of some of the effects of drone attacks.: List of children killed by drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen Compiled from The Bureau of Investigative Journalism reports PAKISTAN Name | Age | Gender Noor Aziz | 8 | male Abdul Wasit | 17 | male Noor Syed | 8 | male Wajid Noor | 9 | male Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male Ayeesha | 3 | female Qari Alamzeb | 14| male Shoaib | 8 | male Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male Tariq Aziz | 16 | male Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male Maezol Khan | 8 | female Nasir Khan | male Naeem Khan | male Naeemullah | male Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male Azizul Wahab | 15 | male Fazal Wahab | 16 | male Ziauddin | 16 | male Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male Fazal Hakim | 19 | male Ilyas | 13 | male Sohail | 7 | male Asadullah | 9 | male khalilullah | 9 | male Noor Mohammad | 8 | male Khalid | 12 | male Saifullah | 9 | male Mashooq Jan | 15 | male Nawab | 17 | male Sultanat Khan | 16 | male Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male Noor Mohammad | 15 | male Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male Abdullah | 18 | male Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male Shahbuddin | 15 | male Yahya Khan | 16 |male Rahatullah |17 | male Mohammad Salim | 11 | male Shahjehan | 15 | male Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male Bakht Muneer | 14 | male Numair | 14 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Taseel Khan | 18 | male Zaheeruddin | 16 | male Qari Ishaq | 19 | male Jamshed Khan | 14 | male Alam Nabi | 11 | male Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male Rahmatullah | 14 | male Abdus Samad | 17 | male Siraj | 16 | male Saeedullah | 17 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Salman | 12 | male Fazal Wahab | 18 | male Baacha Rahman | 13 | male Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male Iftikhar | 17 | male Inayatullah | 15 | male Mashooq Khan | 16 | male Ihsanullah | 16 | male Luqman | 12 | male Jannatullah | 13 | male Ismail | 12 | male Abdul Waris | 16 | male Darvesh | 13 | male Ameer Said | 15 | male Shaukat | 14 | male Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male Adnan | 16 | male Najibullah | 13 | male Naeemullah | 17 | male Hizbullah | 10 | male Kitab Gul | 12 | male Wilayat Khan | 11 | male Zabihullah | 16 | male Shehzad Gul | 11 | male Shabir | 15 | male Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male Shafiullah | 16 | male Nimatullah | 14 | male Shakirullah | 16 | male Talha | 8 | male YEMEN Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male Nasser Salim | 19 Link Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Shady Posted January 24, 2013 Report Posted January 24, 2013 It's only newsworthy to the mainstream media and the political left when a Republican is in the White House. When it's a Democrat, they fall in line like good Germans. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2013 Report Posted January 24, 2013 Watching the mainstream media, I do wonder how many Americans actually know about what happens. I also wonder what they would think if they knew the effects. Here is a sobering reminder of some of the effects of drone attacks.: Impressive ! Give us the list of dead 9/11 victims from many nations so we can compare. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Posted January 24, 2013 It's only newsworthy to the mainstream media and the political left when a Republican is in the White House. When it's a Democrat, they fall in line like good Germans. I don't think this news would reach the mainstream media even if a Republican was the president. They're both war parties and the mainstream media has failed to do real, in-depth reporting of the wars no matter which party president was in power. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2013 Report Posted January 24, 2013 News? That drone attacks kill people ? Who knew !! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) News? That drone attacks kill people ? Who knew !! And as someone eloquently put it: Rapists rape people. This does not mean it's okay and we should not talk about it. CIA drones have already killed at least 40 since the start of the year Link Apparently, 1 out of 4 of them were civilians. Maybe the 25% ratio is not high enough for you, Bush_Cheney? Edited January 24, 2013 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Guest Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) How would the list differ if those attacks had been carried out by conventional military aircraft? Edited January 25, 2013 by bcsapper Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 ....Apparently, 1 out of 4 of them were civilians. Maybe the 25% ratio is not high enough for you, Bush_Cheney? Frankly, I am surprised the count is so low. More than 1 out of 4 civilians died as 9/11 victims. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WWWTT Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 Frankly, I am surprised the count is so low. More than 1 out of 4 civilians died as 9/11 victims. Ya if if the countries where the drone attacks kill civilians say it's time to invade the country conducting the attacks,don't come crying for help to counter attack! Maybe we'll go invade the country conducting the drone strikes to put an end to needless death! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Topaz Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 The more the US drones kill the more the so-called "terrorists" will seek revenge on the West , especially the Americans. I listened to a program on this, being discussed by two Americans and they said that the US wants to keep a low profile on what its doing in the Middle- eastern countries. and how many of its civilians its killing. Can you really blame for the parents of these dead children want to seek and kill any American? The way that Harper is going Canada is probably on that list too but not as high up as the US. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 Ya if if the countries where the drone attacks kill civilians say it's time to invade the country conducting the attacks,don't come crying for help to counter attack! OK...you have a deal. Maybe we'll go invade the country conducting the drone strikes to put an end to needless death! And maybe pigs will grow wings and fly. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 Can you really blame for the parents of these dead children want to seek and kill any American? Nope...still waiting for attacks from Germany, Japan, Italy, Chile, Serbia, Honduras, Guatemala, Cuba, and Grenada ! The way that Harper is going Canada is probably on that list too but not as high up as the US. You voted him into power...not me. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 Watching the mainstream media, I do wonder how many Americans actually know about what happens. I also wonder what they would think if they knew the effects. Here is a sobering reminder of some of the effects of drone attacks.: How about a list of the people killed at Sbarro's in Israel, on September 11, 2011, March 11, 2004, July 11, 2005? If those people stopped making war on the West maybe the West would stop the drone attacks.Do you think the U.S. military does those for fun? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Shady Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 The issue with children being killed by drones, is because the terrorists being targeted usually keep their families around them. Hoping they'll act as human shields. Quote
GostHacked Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 The issue with children being killed by drones, is because the terrorists being targeted usually keep their families around them. Hoping they'll act as human shields. Damn right Shady, no time for remorse, but then more sad news of a school shooting. All of them dead because of someone else's stupidity, and yet some children just garner more TV time in order to push an agenda of guns in the USA all while 'pilots' sitting in an army base in the Homeland is controlling a done half way around the world. Fires off a few, 'collateral damage' goes home to his wife and his kids and has a nice dinner. In other words it's worth killing kids to get the 'terrorists'. Quote
Bonam Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 75% accuracy for drones is pretty good. If only 1/4 casualties is a civilian I'd say that's pretty impressive. It is hard for soldiers, airforces, or other weapon systems to do any better. Especially in situations where civilians and combatants are mixed together. Quote
Guest Manny Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 Thats why its probably a false number. Artificially low Quote
WIP Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Watching the mainstream media, I do wonder how many Americans actually know about what happens. I also wonder what they would think if they knew the effects. Here is a sobering reminder of some of the effects of drone attacks.: Link Newspaper editors used to have a formula for measuring potential reader concern over a tragedy that was based on a ratio of numbers of people killed divided by how far away the location of the disaster was. I think that the fact that these drone attacks on wrong targets happen half way around the world to people that Americans don't consider fully human, has a lot to do with their lack of concern. And, another factor is that MSM only covers the limited range of ideas between Democrat and Republican....which aside from social issues, march in virtual lockstep when it comes to corporatism and the use of military force to advance policy objectives, is another reason why there is no mass public outrage. Americans who want to be informed about what their leaders are doing to others on their behalf, have to at least be curious enough to find international news sources or the fringe radical media within their own country. When its Dem in the White House, MSNBC isn't going to spend time talking about innocent people killed in drone attacks....there's just not enough time to talk about how well President Obama and wife Michelle dance together at the Inaugural Ball. And FoxNews.....seriously? Are they going to complain about the wanton, indiscriminate use of military force on Muslims? Not likely! They will focus their attention looking for evidence that Obama didn't bomb enough Muslim targets! I came across your link to the Drone Watch site awhile back, and I would recommend it to others who want to learn a little more about this new form of warfare and the dangers it represents internationally and locally. You see....there are already small remote drone aircraft being used for surveillance in cities all across North America now...even my home town police force is trying them out and wants the City of Hamilton to foot the bill for buying these toys so they can spy on local residents. And, I'm a little foggy on the timeline regarding how all of this drone warfare got started. I recall reading Popular Science or Mechanics articles on drone aircraft tested back in the 80's, which we were told would be the future of warfare, and pilots would become a thing of the past. It wasn't until some time after 9/11 that drones were being armed with missiles to fire at ground targets in Afghanistan. And if I recall correctly, the military rules of engagement at the time had to be changed to make this accommodation....if I'm correct, prior to 9/11, even U.S. military rules didn't allow for drones to be armed. And the rest is history...so to speak! Now, under the Obama Administration, drone aircraft are shooting at targets all across the Middle East and Pakistan and Afghanistan. So, what's to stop the drones being used for domestic surveillance from being likewise armed with missiles....using the excuse that it's the only safe way to take out a major drug lord or domestic terrorist? What goes around, comes around; and I see a future where we'll be reading about drones blowing up or shooting at targets right in our own cities in the not-too-distant future! And, with the cost of this technology getting lower as production increases, how long will it be before we read about foreign terrorist-operated drones attacking targets over here? This looks like the way of the future in warfare....where the evils of warfare become increasingly common and easy to accomplish by increasing the distance between the attacker and the subject of the attack....not to mention the fact that the "pilot" doesn't even face any risks to his personal safety, which would at least provide a caution to the overzealous military planner who would be more reluctant to put his own pilots at risk. Edited January 25, 2013 by WIP Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
DogOnPorch Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 What's a civilian? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJCvMRXd774 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
WWWTT Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 OK...you have a deal. And maybe pigs will grow wings and fly. Carefull what you wish for #2 WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
cybercoma Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 Impressive ! Give us the list of dead 9/11 victims from many nations so we can compare. Pretty sick rationale. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 ....if I'm correct, prior to 9/11, even U.S. military rules didn't allow for drones to be armed. And the rest is history...so to speak! This is not correct, and ignores the CIA's separate utilization of "drone" aircraft for recon, strike, and fire support. Modern drones can be traced to development in the 1980's, but the concept of a remotely piloted vehicle dates back decades to refitted military aircraft (Full Scale Aerial Targets) used for training and weapons qualifications, fully capable of firing missiles. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 Pretty sick rationale. I agree...supporting terrorism is sick. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 Watching the mainstream media, I do wonder how many Americans actually know about what happens. I also wonder what they would think if they knew the effects. Here is a sobering reminder of some of the effects of drone attacks.: List of children killed by drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen First of all, I question a 19 year old male being listed as a child, as that's military age. Secondly, odd that drone attacks, with the exception of 2, only killed males in Pakistan - and mostly between the ages of 14 - 19. I would wager that these children weren't killed in their homes, but at training camps; how else would all of the females in their households escaped death? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Posted January 25, 2013 First of all, I question a 19 year old male being listed as a child, as that's military age. Agreed...that stuck out right away. I am not as much concerned about drawing such distinctions between "men, women, and children" in the larger context. Civilian casualties were readily accepted as necessary in other wars for which there are holidays and parades. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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