Judge laments refusal of police to enforce the law

[Argus]

On Ontario judge is lamenting the fact police forces in Canada are too cowardly to confront natives, even small groups of natives, who are breaking the law, and refuse to enforce court orders. We saw this in Caledonia, as well, where the OPP repeatedly ignored court injunctions. How do you have any respect for the law when the police refuse to enforce it? And how do the police get to make that choice?

Saying “I do not get it,” an Ontario Superior Court judge Monday bemoaned the passivity of Ontario police forces on illegal native barricades and issued a lament for the state of law-and-order in the nation.

“…no person in Canada stands above or outside of the law,” Judge David Brown said in a decision that was alternately bewildered and plaintive.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/07/judge-slams-ontario-police-for-not-breaking-up-idle-no-more-protests/

[Canuckistani]

Where's this judge been the last few years? Never heard of Caledonia?

[g_bambino]

How do you have any respect for the law when the police refuse to enforce it? And how do the police get to make that choice?

This is a provincial matter.

However, the judge was absolutely right. He also criticises the government--the "civillian overseers" of the police, as he puts it--for its inaction, which is where I think the ultimate blame lies. Though, it is the voters' responsibility to deal with that.

[g_bambino]

Where's this judge been the last few years? Never heard of Caledonia?

Judges said similar things back then, too.

[Canuckistani]

And they will next time, no doubt. And on and on we go.

[Argus]

This is a provincial matter.

However, the judge was absolutely right. He also criticises the government--the "civillian overseers" of the police, as he puts it--for its inaction, which is where I think the ultimate blame lies. Though, it is the voters' responsibility to deal with that.

It's not a provincial matter given it affects police forces across the country. They seem no more eager to confront demonstrators breaking the law when the cops are Quebecers or Albertans.

I don't understand why the police responsible can't be cited for contempt and arrested. I'd loved to see a judge put out an arrest warrant for some of htese oh-so-politically correct chiefs of police, including the OPP commissioner.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Argus

[Argus]

del

Edited January 7, 2013 by Argus

[g_bambino]

It's not a provincial matter given it affects police forces across the country. They seem no more eager to confront demonstrators breaking the law when the cops are Quebecers or Albertans.

The jurisdictions in all those cases are provincial.

I don't understand why the police responsible can't be cited for contempt and arrested.

Arrested by whom?

[Argus]

Arrested by whom?

That's the rub, isn't it. If the police can decide what laws and what court orders to enforce that effectively places them beyond the reach of law. If a court orders the arrest of the chief of police for contempt of court and the police ignore that order, what do we do then? Send in the army?

[cybercoma]

On Ontario judge is lamenting the fact police forces in Canada are too cowardly to confront natives, even small groups of natives, who are breaking the law, and refuse to enforce court orders. We saw this in Caledonia, as well, where the OPP repeatedly ignored court injunctions. How do you have any respect for the law when the police refuse to enforce it? And how do the police get to make that choice?

Saying “I do not get it,” an Ontario Superior Court judge Monday bemoaned the passivity of Ontario police forces on illegal native barricades and issued a lament for the state of law-and-order in the nation.

“…no person in Canada stands above or outside of the law,” Judge David Brown said in a decision that was alternately bewildered and plaintive.

http://news.national...-more-protests/

Natives are disproportionately incarcerated. That fact doesn't seem to mesh well with the notion that police are not enforcing the law against natives.

[PIK]

Natives are disproportionately incarcerated. That fact doesn't seem to mesh well with the notion that police are not enforcing the law against natives.

Mainly for problems of drugs , achol, mental illness , not for stopping trains or traffic or screwing with tracks and equiptment. Or even terrorizing that poor family in caledonia.

[Argus]

Natives are disproportionately incarcerated. That fact doesn't seem to mesh well with the notion that police are not enforcing the law against natives.

I didn't say they weren't enforcing all laws. My complaint is they're ignoring a court order because of their fear of political repercussions and bad publicity. I don't care if that's natives or whoever. Cops don't have the brains or the training to make decisions on whether to enforce court orders.

[blueblood]

Natives are disproportionately incarcerated. That fact doesn't seem to mesh well with the notion that police are not enforcing the law against natives.

No they're not, if they didn't commit crimes they wouldn't be incarcerated.

[Signals.Cpl]

I don't understand why the police responsible can't be cited for contempt and arrested. I'd loved to see a judge put out an arrest warrant for some of htese oh-so-politically correct chiefs of police, including the OPP commissioner.

And when something goes wrong or suddenly unpopular who will be left holding the short stick? If the police were to start acting we would be flooded with police brutality complaints wether they have any merit or not and then what happens? The people who were supporting/demanding police action as well as the people in charge will quickly melt away only to leave the police officers to face the music for doing their jobs.

[blueblood]

I didn't say they weren't enforcing all laws. My complaint is they're ignoring a court order because of their fear of political repercussions and bad publicity. I don't care if that's natives or whoever. Cops don't have the brains or the training to make decisions on whether to enforce court orders.

All right, you go into a situation where your outnumbered 10 to 1 to effect an arrest. Oh by the way your on tape so your going to be scrutinized if you have to use force. Then if you manage to arrest and lay charges, have fun in court.

Why would anyone in their right mind risk being swarmed only to be thrown under the bus by people like you in court or worse yet an inquiry?

You guys wanted to bog police down with policy; Bon appetit.

[Smallc]

The motto of the RCMP is uphold the law. At least for that force, it should be pretty simple.

[g_bambino]

If the police can decide what laws and what court orders to enforce that effectively places them beyond the reach of law. If a court orders the arrest of the chief of police for contempt of court and the police ignore that order, what do we do then? Send in the army?

It's the job of the police to maintain the Queen's peace; sometimes acting violently will just beget more violence, which runs rather counter to the whole peace thing. So, they have some leeway in deciding how and/or when to enforce certain laws. However, the aforementioned is a decision made within a legal, not political, framework; the maintenance of lawful peace and order is the main goal, not the advancement of a political platform. Unfortunately, since the Oka affair, Ontario ministers have become frightened of using the Crown's power, via the OPP, against aboriginal protesters, and their fear of damage to their political success has led them to direct the provincial police--as they, not judges (the injunction instructed protesters to move from the rail line, not the police to move them, and, as the judge himself said: "a judge of this Court cannot order a police agency to enforce a civil court order"), have the authority to do--to refrain from using even the slightest hint of force against First Nations protesters. This was most obvious in Caledonia, which has now set a precedent that the OPP continues to follow and other police forces are adopting.

The OPP cannot simply ingore direction from the Governor-in-Council--to do otherwise would in itself be insurrection--and, since it's the Governor-in-Council directing them to remain unengaged with native protesters, there's neither reason nor motivation for any OPP commander or minister of the Crown to order the arrest of another commander or officer who refuses to enforce a court's order to First Nations protesters that they move. Ditto now for municipal governments and their police forces. Long story short, the fault for this politically motivated use (or disuse) of the police lies squarely with the politicians in government--the "civilian overseers" of the police forces, as Brown put it--primarily those in the provincial government for setting the precedent others are now following. And who, in this democracy, are the politicians ultimately accountable to but us, the voters?

[ed: font]

Edited January 8, 2013 by g_bambino

[Boges]

I wonder, if this meeting on Friday doesn't go well, will Caledonia-type protests be widespread. Occupy petered out because they were just squatting in public parks not many people really cared.

FN's make up about 4% of the Canadian population they could make life pretty miserable for many people if they put their minds to it. Would they force government to act against them?

Edited January 8, 2013 by Boges

[Signals.Cpl]

I wonder, if this meeting on Friday doesn't go well, will Caledonia-type protests be widespread. Occupy petered out because they were just squatting in public parks not many people really cared.

FN's make up about 4% of the Canadian population they could make life pretty miserable for many people if they put their minds to it. Would they force government to act against them?

If they decide to do something then the government has the responsibility to the rest of the country to keep the peace and wether it is using the police or as a last resort the military they will use any means. It's one thing when Canadians get hammered with "news" about the government screwing the FN but when the Canadian people get the other side as well where the FN in many instances are squandering the resources given to them support will drop, you can protest all you want but when everyone knows that your protest are really just about getting more money and less government oversight in to your spending the money the FN will not hold the moral high ground.

[Michael Hardner]

FN's make up about 4% of the Canadian population they could make life pretty miserable for many people if they put their minds to it. Would they force government to act against them?

Right. So let's think practically of what would happen if the government doesn't handle this politically.

The more I read about Attawapiskat, the more it seems to me that there's a tense but progressive relationship evolving there.

[Big Guy]

The danger with these escalating “protests” which are designed to inconvenience people is the possible response from those inconvenienced people. I live about 40 km from the occupation in Caledonia. Every time there is a protest march or demonstration the OPP are busy keeping angry locals and imported “good old boys” from getting to the natives.

The nightmare scenario is that these “good old boys” in their pick up trucks decide to start “buzzing” the natives and the imported “Warriors” (many of whom come in from the USA and join the bikers on the reserves) who gravitate to areas of native unrest, decide to make a war of it. There is very little (and decreasing) support for the native position in Caledonia among the locals.

It would not take much for a major physical confrontation which would lead to injury and death.

[Argus]

And when something goes wrong or suddenly unpopular who will be left holding the short stick? If the police were to start acting we would be flooded with police brutality complaints wether they have any merit or not and then what happens? The people who were supporting/demanding police action as well as the people in charge will quickly melt away only to leave the police officers to face the music for doing their jobs.

Total BS. The only people who were whining about the last few instances were the lefties who think natives walk on water. As far as I'm concerned, if you use physical force to confront police you get what you deserve.

[Argus]

All right, you go into a situation where your outnumbered 10 to 1 to effect an arrest. Oh by the way your on tape so your going to be scrutinized if you have to use force. Then if you manage to arrest and lay charges, have fun in court.

Why would anyone in their right mind risk being swarmed only to be thrown under the bus by people like you in court or worse yet an inquiry?

You guys wanted to bog police down with policy; Bon appetit.

There were fifteen protestors at the latest site. Don't give me any BS about it being too dangerous to move them out of the way or arrest them. The police didn't seem to mind beating on thousands of protestors during the G20. In fact, I didn't see the least hesitation or restraint there. But when it comes to natives protests they're suddenly cringing little girls afraid to say a bad word.

[Canuckistani]

If it's too dangerous to move/arrrest protesting Natives, why isn't it to do the same with non-natives when they protest. The police at G-20 had no problem kicking ass.

[g_bambino]

If it's too dangerous to move/arrrest protesting Natives, why isn't it to do the same with non-natives when they protest. The police at G-20 had no problem kicking ass.

Optics; they're dangerous to the success of politicians' careers.