US Congress - Clash of Science and Scripture

[sharkman]

President Obama and his family began attending church publicly after six months in office. He goes to church just like God fearing Republicans (or Democrats).

Damn, that's one fine looking church going family, all you anti-church types should take note!

[The_Squid]

Damn, that's one fine looking church going family, all you anti-church types should take note!

Why?

[Smallc]

I think Obama's actually an atheist.

[Canuckistani]

I think Obama's actually an atheist.

I think he's a politician.

[Smallc]

Yes, and that's why he goes to church.

[sharkman]

Why?

It just is, grasshopper.

[Guest American Woman]

And not once has he said he doesn't believe in embryology but does believe the earth is 9000 years old. What kind of God forsaken church is this man going to, anyway?

There are those who think Harper is guided by the evangelical Alliance Church. http://thecanadianpo...l-alliance.html

This same church has declared war on the environment, believes the Earth is 6,000 years old – like

former Canadian Alliance leader Stockwell Day does

– and believes that the scientists and environmentalists are preaching a fraud to destroy the economy.

The kind of people backing Harper come from the

Cornwall Alliance

, which is a right-wing coalition of scholars, economists and evangelicals who instill doubt on mainstream science and climate change, view environmentalists as a “native evil,” and supports libertarian economics.

His church teaches the “truths” of the bible which he takes very dear to himself.

I don't understand why Canadians would be shocked over Broun and/or other religious American politicians as Canada is facing the same issues. I already made reference to the appointment of your Science Minister, and you had nothing to say about that - as you go on and on about this.

Edited January 2, 2013 by American Woman

[Canuckistani]

You're perfectly right. We do it toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Harper at least has the good sense to keep his mouth shut about his religious beliefs, but I've certainly remarked on his likely beliefs, as have others. Of course maybe he's a politician like Obama, although in Canada it's worth a lot less points to be seen going to church.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Canuckistani

[Guest American Woman]

You're perfectly right. We do it toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Yes, you doooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Harper at least has the good sense to keep his mouth shut about his religious beliefs.

Oh, that's so much better according to the people quoted in the article. Much better not to have a politician who is open about his beliefs. Much better to keep such things hidden from the people he represents. (In case it escapes you, that's sarcasm).

Did you read the article??

Stephen Harper has refused to answer questions about his beliefs and which groups inform him.

It's not perceived as a good thing by some Canadians.

Edited January 2, 2013 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

No, I have learned that when in Rome Canada (via server farm in Texas), do as the Canadians do. If it's not hypocrisy for you, then it is not hypocrisy for me.

It's not hypocrisy from me because I don't care, but when you constantly whine about Canadians talking about the US in the Canadian forum, then turn around and do the exact same thing, you look foolish.

[Guest American Woman]

It's not hypocrisy from me because I don't care

So why are you commenting on it? Why aren't you just letting it go?

Edited January 2, 2013 by American Woman

[Canuckistani]

Depends who's doing the perceiving. I don't perceive it as good, no. Neither here nor there. It's come up for discussion about Harper, this time I read an article about the nutbar doctor that's heading the Science committee down in crazytown. All grist for the mill.

[GostHacked]

So why are you commenting on it? Why aren't you just letting it go?

I am with Cybercoma on this matter.

We can ask as well : Why won't you let it go?

Can we get back to the topic now? Why does every damn thread devolve into one of these idiotic arguments?

[Guest American Woman]

Depends who's doing the perceiving. I don't perceive it as good, no. Neither here nor there.

Yeah, it is - when it's being presented as "an American thing." If people care about the actual appointment and similar appointments, that's what would be being discussed - not 'how does this happen in the U.S.?' It would stand to reason that Goodyear and Harper et al would be part of the discussion. As it stands, this is just another discussion more about the U.S. than anything else.

[Canuckistani]

Yes it's a discussion about the US. And why not? I've certainly never heard an MD in Canada come out and say they don't believe in embryology. But I"m sure we can rely on you to point out where we did it tooooo.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Canuckistani

[Guest American Woman]

I am with Cybercoma on this matter.

We can ask as well : Why won't you let it go?

Can we get back to the topic now? Why does every damn thread devolve into one of these idiotic arguments?

Ask yourself those questions, since you seem to have a problem with it.

If you really want an answer, you might try looking into the posters who take the threads in this direction - and take it up with them.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes it's a discussion about the US. And why not? I've certainly never heard an MD in Canada come out and say they don't believe in embryology. But I"m sure we can rely on you to point out where we did it tooooo.

What's sad is that you need me to point out where you did it too. But yeah, it's always about the U.S., not the actual issue; good to see you admit that.

[GostHacked]

Ask yourself those questions, since you seem to have a problem with it.

Ask yourself why you don't have a problem with it.

If you really want an answer, you might try looking into the posters who take the threads in this direction - and take it up with them.

Don't feed the trolls.

[Guest American Woman]

'Don't feed the trolls.

Try addressing the "trolls" ....

[Canuckistani]

If you're calling me a troll, I started this topic, so every comment on it is feeding me. If you don't feel it's worth discussing, don't do so.

[kimmy]

Damn, that's one fine looking church going family, all you anti-church types should take note!

I'm not anti-church. I'm anti-church-in-politics, anti-church-in-science, anti-church-in-education, anti-church-in-healthcare. I'm not anti-church if church doesn't stray into places it has no business being in.

I think it's great that millions of families spend their Sunday mornings together. Personally I think they could find a better place to spend a morning with the family than at church, but that's their choice and I don't condemn them for it.

Hey, you know who DOES condemn them for it? Rep Paul Broun, R-Georgia!

In the same speech where he called science "lies straight from the pits of Hell", he also said that mainline churches "are going to send their people to Hell."

So who really hates Christians? Me, the one who says they're wasting a lovely Sunday morning? Or Paul Broun, the guy who says that the vast majority of them are going to Hell because they're not worshipping the way he thinks they should?

Ponder that for a while...

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm not anti-church. I'm anti-church-in-politics, anti-church-in-science, anti-church-in-education, anti-church-in-healthcare. I'm not anti-church if church doesn't stray into places it has no business being in.

You are "anti-church" in education and health care ? Do you have any idea how much "health care" is delivered by religious organizations, particularly in nursing homes and hospitals ? No more Notre Dame or St. (insert name) colleges or universities?

Just because you don't like it ?

[The_Squid]

You are "anti-church" in education and health care ? Do you have any idea how much "health care" is delivered by religious organizations, particularly in nursing homes and hospitals ? No more Notre Dame or St. (insert name) colleges or universities?

Just because you don't like it ?

A very minor point of her well-said post. Why don't you address her questions.... I don't think they were rhetorical.

[bush_cheney2004]

A very minor point of her well-said post. Why don't you address her questions.... I don't think they were rhetorical.

I did address the question with a direct retort concerning the large installed base of religious education and health care organizations.

You didn't address anything.

[kimmy]

There are those who think Harper is guided by the evangelical Alliance Church.

Unlike Stockwell Day, whose religious fanaticism was well known long before he entered federal politics, Harper has not made public statements of faith beyond "Merry Christmas."

While conspiracy-minded individuals may see his environmental record as some sort of evidence that he's under the influence of some sort of religious group or whatever that was about, the obvious explanation is that he has long had a pro-business and particularly pro-oil agenda.

Political opponents attempted to attach a "Christian fundie" label to Harper for years, just as with his predecessors Stockwell Day and Preston Manning. Unlike those gentlemen, the attack has simply had no effect on Harper, because unlike his predecessors, there's simply no substance to it.

Someone with your keen enthusiasm for Canadian politics might be aware that in its formative years the Reform and Canadian Alliance party were plagued by foot-in-mouth blunders that often came in the form of candidates or MPs from conservative rural areas saying things that may have played well on their home turf but were absolutely toxic to voters in the urban areas where most of Canada's MPs are drawn from. Stephen Harper recognized this while Stockwell Day was still leader, and when Harper took the party from Day, he put an end to it. Because Harper, unlike Day, recognized that there weren't enough votes in the sticks to win a majority, and that urban voters would not elect a party they perceived as being run by Bible-thumping country bumpkins.

America's Republicans are where the Canadian Alliance party was at about 12 years ago. They haven't yet woken up to the fact that they're increasingly perceived by urban Americans and younger Americans as being the party of backwoods hicks and old coots. They need their own version of Stephen Harper to straighten them out.

I don't understand why Canadians would be shocked over Broun and/or other religious American politicians as Canada is facing the same issues. I already made reference to the appointment of your Science Minister, and you had nothing to say about that - as you go on and on about this.

Gary Goodyear never actually said he was a creationist; he said he was a Christian and that his religious views weren't relevant to his duties. He later explained that he did believe in evolution, although his explanation suggested that he didn't actually understand it.

Regardless, Goodyear's appointment to that post certainly was criticized. And Stockwell Day's religious views were mocked mercilessly. "He thinks The Flintstones is a documentary" was a zinger that should go on the epitaph of his political career, and his perceived affiliation with Canada's version of the Christian Right was probably the single biggest factor in his failure to catch on in urban Canada, and as a result in his eventual defeat by Stephen Harper.

So the premise that Canadians had nothing to say about Canadian politicians who were perceived as being excessively beholden to religion is simply not true. Canadians had a lot to say about it when those were current topics.

-k