Gross violation of privacy of people who have handgun permits

[Signals.Cpl]

Perhaps then the anger should be directed to the Govt who made the rules on this?

I have no issues with guns nor gun owners, but if they want to whine about this, then perhaps they shouldnt have bought a gun.

So they shouldn't enjoy the rights given to them by the law of the land simply because someone could and does post their address and the fact that they are enjoying their rights? This kind of sounds like the "if you don't want to be raped don't dress so provocative" argument, but in this case its "if you don't want every criminal to know you have gun don't buy one"...

[Signals.Cpl]

I still don't understand why they would not want anyone to know they have something that supposedly makes them safe. I guess if you're paranoid, you're paranoid.

Guns themselves are not a deterrent, the person having a gun is, so considering that most people probably won't carry their firearm to work with them this means that the gun is sitting at home for the taking. If someone invests a little bit of time in research and does a recce they can get a gun no problem what so ever.

[Signals.Cpl]

You sound like a crazy person. How about you detail how this imaginary attack that would never happen would come about?

So you think that never has it happened that a police officer or a prison guard has ever been attacked at home due to their employment?

Gang Member 1: Know what today....F going out and selling drugs I saw we pick a name out of this newspaper about where guns are and for no reason try to kill that person.....because you know they have a gun so lets do this things for no reason.

No, its knowing a person and their address as well as the fact they have a gun permit likely with a gun in the house. On the flip side it means that a gang member sits outside your home and waits until you and your wife leave for work, walks in grabs the gun and ammo and there you go now there is one more gun in the street. Where do you think that illegal guns come from? I would say a large % of them come from thefts such as this so its hard to understand how you are against guns but not against giving the criminals a nice list of targets to hit.

Gang Member 2: Yes that sounds like a great plan that no one but Sharkman would ever think of because it makes no sense.

Is that how that comes about?

You can buy a gun and hope for the best meaning no one has used it for criminal means or what not, or you can steal a gun which you know is likely well maintained and has never been involved in a crime. Why do you think people break in to steal things? I mean they could just go to the store and buy a new TV why risk jail time? Why risk jail time for an iPod or a watch? You give them a nice list of targets they will go and relieve the people of their guns at their convenience.

[Signals.Cpl]

Its not wrong in and of itself. It is public data, anyone could get a hold of it. It is afterall only a list of those who have applied so not a list of who has what . Nor did thr list include long guns. But the law stated this was public data and therefore can be seen by the public.

Not all the people on the list have pistols but all the legal pistols owned are probably on the list.

If the police applied for a permit in Westshester, they will remain on the books. Handing in their guns, in the face of security concerns that they are saying exists (doubtful to me) then they best keep on CCW

What about the families of the police officers? do their wives and kids apply for CCW permit?

[Signals.Cpl]

They could have done that before the publication. They know the job and all the concerns. This is merely window dressing for other reasons, deflection as it were.

Dont blame them, but not buying it.

Just because they could have done it before does not mean that the newspaper should have given them all the information they need...

In this case the newspaper is in fact penalizing people for following the law...see if you had just bought an illegal gun you wouldn't have this problem.

[Signals.Cpl]

Yah because that evil thing that was just invented called the phone book. Come on you are reaching here very much.

You know not everyone is in the phone book right? There are people who are trying to lie low and keep their footprint as small as possible and now some newspaper which was trying to cash in on a tragedy decided to put people out there with or without their consent.

[Signals.Cpl]

Cool story Bro. Again has really nothing to do with this. Again you act like Gang bangers go all this trouble to get addresses yet they can't fill out a freedom of information request? It takes all of 15 minutes and 25 dollars to do. It isn't rocket science like you would have me believe.

Well you have guys who either don't know or couldn't be bothered to try but suddenly there you go you have a list that cannot be traced back to you since you got it from the newspaper.

The fact is they could have done it before, but now it simply is handed to them with a nice simple map as well, plus with the bonus of knowing which of their neighbours are armed as well... don't even have to do work just get handed to you knowing if the guy is armed and if his neighbours are armed too.

[punked]

Well you have guys who either don't know or couldn't be bothered to try but suddenly there you go you have a list that cannot be traced back to you since you got it from the newspaper.

The fact is they could have done it before, but now it simply is handed to them with a nice simple map as well, plus with the bonus of knowing which of their neighbours are armed as well... don't even have to do work just get handed to you knowing if the guy is armed and if his neighbours are armed too.

You sound ridiculous. Come talk to me when this rash of cop killing starts now that list is up.

[dre]

You sound ridiculous. Come talk to me when this rash of cop killing starts now that list is up.

Like I said before, when nothing happens all the doomsayers will toddle off to some other thread with their tails between their legs.

[sharkman]

So it only matters when someone dies I guess. But when I prisoner walks up to a guard and says his kids looked really happy playing on their new bikes yesterday, it's no big deal as the guard and family are scared silly and the kids can't play in the yard. It only matters if someone dies, but it could have been avoided by not printing the permit lists. I don't know why some don't get this.

Edited January 10, 2013 by sharkman

[Signals.Cpl]

You sound ridiculous. Come talk to me when this rash of cop killing starts now that list is up.

So let me guet this thing, you don't care that this is a problem until people get slaughtered? You wouldn't do anything to stop/prevent this because it makes sense to keep people safe you would only do something if police officers start losing their lives?

I realize you want to ban guns for the sake of banning guns whether they fix the problem or increase the problem, there is no good reason to put up the names of the people who own guns legally. If we follow your chain of thought we will never get in front of a problem and prevent deaths we will always be chasing problems because even though some of us have the common sense to grasp such a basic problem we cannot do anything until what dozens or hundreds or even thousands of officers and their families are threatened and murdered simply to convince you? If your life or the lives of your family were on the line I can foresee you demanding immediate action before the violence befalls you but just because it is just gun owners and police officers who cares...let them die right?

Edited January 10, 2013 by Signals.Cpl

[punked]

So let me guet this thing, you don't care that this is a problem until people get slaughtered?

Seems like I have been saying this same thing to the pro gun people here. The only difference what I am arguing for is because real people have been killed instead of fake people that will never be killed like your concern. Again filling out a FOIP request takes 10 mins I do it all the time. This info is not secerate everyone already has access to it.

As people around here like to say.... Lists don't kill people gun.... Errrr Umm.... People do? A list is just a tool to track gun and owners.

Edited January 10, 2013 by punked

[betsy]

You sound like a crazy person. How about you detail how this imaginary attack that would never happen would come about?

Gang Member 1: Know what today....F going out and selling drugs I saw we pick a name out of this newspaper about where guns are and for no reason try to kill that person.....because you know they have a gun so lets do this things for no reason.

Gang Member 2: Yes that sounds like a great plan that no one but Sharkman would ever think of because it makes no sense.

Is that how that comes about?

easy for you to say. Prove it. Walk the talk!

Post your real identity - including your address and phone number - on this forum.

You shouldn't worry, right?....after all you're anti-gun, and therefore you don't own a gun.

So out of curiousity, what's your name, address and phone number?

Edited January 10, 2013 by betsy

[punked]

easy for you to say. Prove it. Walk the talk!

Post your real identity - including your address and phone number - on this forum.

You shouldn't worry, right?....after all you're anti-gun, and therefore you don't own a gun.

So out of curiousity, what's your name, address and phone number?

Fill out a FOIP please. Get a mountain of data then comb through it. Thanks. Again it is easy for me to say because I didn't fill out an fourm anyone has the right to have access to under our laws . THEY DID. This info isn't private its PUBLIC.

Now we wait for these killings that are never going to happen to happen. While we forget about the 30000 gun related deaths a year. Let's protect people from imaginary problems islnstead of real ones eh? Typical right wing nonsense.

Edited January 10, 2013 by punked

[guyser]

So they shouldn't enjoy the rights given to them by the law of the land simply because someone could and does post their address and the fact that they are enjoying their rights?

Huh?

They are enjoying their rights as no one has deprived them of same.

Not sure your point here.

This kind of sounds like the "if you don't want to be raped don't dress so provocative" argument, but in this case its "if you don't want every criminal to know you have gun don't buy one"...

No it sounds completely false as an analogy.

By the way, criminals know where the guns are, list or published in a paper, its called a Gun Shop .

Their addresses are even advertised. Can you imagine?

Edited January 10, 2013 by guyser

[guyser]

easy for you to say. Prove it. Walk the talk!

Post your real identity - including your address and phone number - on this forum.

You shouldn't worry, right?....after all you're anti-gun, and therefore you don't own a gun.

So out of curiousity, what's your name, address and phone number?

Is there a point you want to discuss?

[cybercoma]

Just so you know in the States while guns are legal it is actually illegal to make a Molotov cocktail.

Why is it illegal to make molotov cocktails? They don't kill anyone. What's with this irrational fear of inanimate objects?

[sharkman]

In this gun-owners-being-outed fiasco, there was a group of people that were protected after all. I should have seen this, and I guess we can take at least some comfort in the fact that some people were protected anyway. <sarcasm> I'm speaking, of course, of those people who are not law abiding and didn't bother to get a gun permit and or the back ground check needed. These good folks who find the business of various criminal activities already complicated enough without the entanglements of such red tape, these folks were protected from being outed. Hurrah.

[Black Dog]

Well, I tell you this makes me feel better about law-abiding, responsible gun-owning Americans.

[GostHacked]

Yah because that evil thing that was just invented called the phone book. Come on you are reaching here very much.

Phone books (which are going the way of the dodo) don't include gun ownership information.

[GostHacked]

Seems like I have been saying this same thing to the pro gun people here. The only difference what I am arguing for is because real people have been killed instead of fake people that will never be killed like your concern. Again filling out a FOIP request takes 10 mins I do it all the time. This info is not secerate everyone already has access to it.

As people around here like to say.... Lists don't kill people gun.... Errrr Umm.... People do? A list is just a tool to track gun and owners.

Alright, so would your views of your neighbors change if you knew who had firearms when you previously did not know? If your views would change, why?

[punked]

Alright, so would your views of your neighbors change if you knew who had firearms when you previously did not know? If your views would change, why?

Nope and that is my point. I own a gun and it is registered. So what? People in this thread are being ridiculous. You know when you buy a certain type of gun it has to be registered and this becomes a part of PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE. If you don't like that then don't buy a gun or fight to have the law changed. Don't whine as if you are some sort of victim. The people in this thread know these people aren't victims so now they are making up future crimes which will never happen now where some gang member is going to kill all the people on this list? You people are unhinged. GET A GRIP. I live in the real world maybe some people in this thread should try it.

[sharkman]

It does not become a part of "public knowledge" as no one knows that you have a gun permit. Your address and name are part of public knowledge since they are in the phone book, but the gun permit info has to be applied for to become public knowledge.

Listen, Punked, I am not saying that gang members are going to kill all the people on the list. Why do I have to spell everything out for you? They can threaten the family and force the guard to give them preferential treatment in jail, for instance. Or they could just enjoy toying with the guard's mental health by knowing the convict has contacts on the outside that could set the guard's house on fire or anything else.

And the point is, if Media organizations wouldn't do this irresponsible act and distribute the names, then these law enforcement people wouldn't be subject to threats to their families. In fact, no newspaper has distributed such data before in the US, and the Journal's circulation was down significantly in the last year. So they are putting innocent people at risk in order to drum up profits.

[Guest]

With any luck they'll be sued out of business.

[eyeball]

Well, I tell you this makes me feel better about law-abiding, responsible gun-owning Americans.

I'm chagrined to say, the one argument for owning battlefield-grade guns that makes most sense to me is that I might want to defend myself or even revolt one day against a government that I've learned to trust about as far as I can spit.