Mass shooting

[bush_cheney2004]

You can't make that statement because the government has defunded any study that would prove such a thing.

Perhaps you don't have children in U.S. schools. Long before 9/11, many U.S. school districts adopted strict security policies and rules for weapons of any kind, and this was carried over into banned guns even as states permitted right-to-carry. Perhaps you have not been in the U.S. for many decades.

Edited December 24, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

Yep so in response we banned all weapons. So banning everything from nail cutters to guns on plane is just fine with the right, it prevents deaths but the same sorts of solutions can't even be discussed in response to this? That is wrong.

Guns aren't allowed on planes, and weren't long before 9-11. We didn't ban all weapons from existence, just banned them from planes. As it stands, they're banned from schools, too, and there is ongoing dialog about that.

[punked]

Perhaps you don't have children in U.S. schools. Long before 9/11, many U.S. school districts adopted strict security policies and rules for weapons of any kind, and this was carried over into banned guns even as states permitted right-to-carry. Perhaps you have not been in the U.S. for many decades.

Except for that half of schools that have armed security in them right? Like you know Columbine.

[bush_cheney2004]

Except for that half of schools that have armed security in them right? Like you know Columbine.

...and some school districts have their own police departments. The point is that AW is right...there have been many measures taken to address violence and safety in U.S. schools for many years. It is not true to say that threats and risks have been ignored.

You still haven't reconciled your acceptance as "tolerable" for many other gun homicides involving children compared to Newtown.

Edited December 24, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[punked]

Guns aren't allowed on planes, and weren't long before 9-11. We didn't ban all weapons from existence, just banned them from planes. As it stands, they're banned from schools, too, and there is ongoing dialog about that.

I am pointing out that people didn't go crazy when they banned everything from planes including liquids. They accepted that it was a measure to keep them safe. I don't think that is the answer with guns. I think the answer with guns is to admit there is a problem and to study it because small measures like the one passed a long time ago of having a minim age for gun ownership have shown to make huge differences. I think we can fix this problem with out infringing on anyones rights but first everyone needs to admit their is a problem.

Putting guns in schools wont stop a mass shooter at a movie theater. What will? I don't know lets study the problem so we can have a real discussion with facts and figures instead of "once my cousin had a gun and stopped a robbery" that is a story. That is all it is.

[bush_cheney2004]

I am pointing out that people didn't go crazy when they banned everything from planes including liquids.

Including the NRA.....the gun ban on aircraft has been in place for a long time. Then after 9/11, pilots were authorized to have a gun in the cockpit. Sky marshalls also had guns in the cabin.

[bush_cheney2004]

What will? I don't know lets study the problem so we can have a real discussion with facts and figures instead of "once my cousin had a gun and stopped a robbery" that is a story. That is all it is.

Study complete.....send all the crazy people to Canada where it is so 100% safe.

[Wilber]

...and some school districts have their own police departments. The point is that AW is right...there have been many measures taken to address violence and safety in U.S. schools for many years. It is not true to say that threats and risks have been ignored.

All of them have addressed symptoms, not the cause.

[punked]

...and some school districts have their own police departments. The point is that AW is right...there have been many measures taken to address violence and safety in U.S. schools for many years. It is not true to say that threats and risks have been ignored.

You still haven't reconciled your acceptance as "tolerable" for many other gun homicides involving children compared to Newtown.

Well have these measures worked? Know what would be nice? Letting the NIH or someone study these measures and how they work so we can have a national solution. It would be nice if that was something the NRA and gun owners supported. A study of what does and does not work. Has stand your ground made Florida safer? Show me the numbers? Oh you can't because it is against the law in Florida to collect stats on gun innocents.

I am tired of hearing stories from the Pro gun people I want facts. I can not get facts because the Pro gun people have made it almost impossible in the US to find them. Why would they do that? Oh because they already know the answer. We saw this with cigarettes, I can see when science is being silenced because people want to say they know the solutions and they don't want to be shown they are wrong.

[punked]

Including the NRA.....the gun ban on aircraft has been in place for a long time. Then after 9/11, pilots were authorized to have a gun in the cockpit. Sky marshalls also had guns in the cabin.

Want to address the point I was making.

[Guest American Woman]

I am pointing out that people didn't go crazy when they banned everything from planes including liquids. They accepted that it was a measure to keep them safe.

They banned them from planes, not the rest of the world. As I pointed out, guns and weapons have already been banned from schools.

I don't think that is the answer with guns. I think the answer with guns is to admit there is a problem and to study it because small measures like the one passed a long time ago of having a minim age for gun ownership have shown to make huge differences. I think we can fix this problem with out infringing on anyones rights but first everyone needs to admit their is a problem.

Obviously people wouldn't be discussing armed police officers in school, mental health, the role that the media and video games et al play into such instances if they didn't see school shootings as a problem. You seem to think that if people don't see your viewpoint as the only viewpoint, then they are dismissing it - not admitting that there is a problem.

Putting guns in schools wont stop a mass shooter at a movie theater.

Security on airplanes won't stop a terrorist attack on a train, either - so should we not have security on planes?

What will? I don't know lets study the problem so we can have a real discussion with facts and figures instead of "once my cousin had a gun and stopped a robbery" that is a story. That is all it is.

There are real discussions involving facts and figures going on, but some seem to want to limit the discussion to their idea of "gun control." Period.

[punked]

They banned them from planes, not the rest of the world. As I pointed out, guns and weapons have already been banned from schools.

Obviously people wouldn't be discussing armed police officers in school, mental health, the role that the media and video games et al play into such instances if they didn't see school shootings as a problem. You seem to think that if people don't see your viewpoint as the only viewpoint, then they are dismissing it - not admitting that there is a problem.

Security on airplanes won't stop a terrorist attack on a train, either - so should we not have security on planes?

There are real discussions involving facts and figures going on, but some seem to want to limit the discussion to their idea of "gun control." Period.

Yah there is such a discussion. Why isn't the NRA for lifting the ban on government studies of these problems. Know what is stupid. Saying there is a problem but we refuse to let people study that problem and advocate for what works (statistically) to solve it.

Glade to see you admit there is a problem. BTW there are studies that show video games aren't the problem. See that? We studied the link, we proved the link doesn't exist so why is the NRA still talking about it? Lets find things but funding the smartest people out there to find the links to the problems and fix them. Read the articles.

Grand Theft Childhood: The Surprising Truth About Violent Video Games, Lawrence Kutner PhD and Cheryl K. Olson ScD

"Video Games and Real Life Aggression", Lillian Bensely and Juliet Van Eenwyk, Journal of Adolescent Health, vol. 29, 2001

"Video Games and Health", Mark Griffiths, British Medical Journal vol. 331, 2005

This is the type of discussion I need. So after you read the studies and know that the NRA is full of crap about video games maybe you will be for studies on other things. Like the link between access to guns and gun crime?

Edited December 24, 2012 by punked

[Guest American Woman]

Yah there is such a discussion. Why isn't the NRA for lifting the ban on government studies of these problems. Know what is stupid. Saying there is a problem but we refuse to let people study that problem and advocate for what works (statistically) to solve it.

Again, there's nothing but people's interpretation of the ban on "funds being used for advocating or promoting gun control" being in place. Again. Public funds are not supposed to be used to promote any one side of an issue.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well have these measures worked? Know what would be nice? Letting the NIH or someone study these measures and how they work so we can have a national solution. It would be nice if that was something the NRA and gun owners supported. A study of what does and does not work. Has stand your ground made Florida safer? Show me the numbers? Oh you can't because it is against the law in Florida to collect stats on gun innocents.

The CDC has already performed such studies. Gun related homicides were on the list years ago. It is now standard for doctors and other health care professionals to ask about guns in the home. Why aren't you aware of this? The point is that we have not ignored the issue, as you ignore gun related homicides for children in tolerated "gang related" shootings for the "inner city".

I am tired of hearing stories from the Pro gun people I want facts. I can not get facts because the Pro gun people have made it almost impossible in the US to find them. Why would they do that? Oh because they already know the answer. We saw this with cigarettes, I can see when science is being silenced because people want to say they know the solutions and they don't want to be shown they are wrong.

Nobody cares what you want in Canada. Get your butt down here and be part of the solution instead of whining.

[bush_cheney2004]

Want to address the point I was making.

I already have, but you haven't reconciled your position on "tolerated" gun homicides for children. Contrary to your warped view from Canada, the "studies have already been done and the numbers are in. Matter of fact, it is far easier to get current data for the U.S. than for Canada.

Edited December 24, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[TheNewTeddy]

As families start to gather for Christmas, I thought it would be wise for me to quote this post.

Seriously...it would be better to lose children after Christmas?

Which is the most disgusting post I've ever seen on this forum.

[punked]

The CDC has already performed such studies. Gun related homicides were on the list years ago. It is now standard for doctors and other health care professionals to ask about guns in the home. Why aren't you aware of this? The point is that we have not ignored the issue, as you ignore gun related homicides for children in tolerated "gang related" shootings for the "inner city".

Have fun reading HB 155. You are wrong. Again this is what Congress has in the appropriations bill for the CDC " “none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”"

Btw in 1999 congress put that language into the appropriations to all Department of Health and Human Services agencies, including the National Institutes of Health. It stands to this day. There is a ban on studying anything that might link gun violence to guns, or advocate for gun control. So you can stop acting the fool you look like right now.

Why are you not aware of this?

Edited December 24, 2012 by punked

[Wilber]

Again, there's nothing but people's interpretation of the ban on "funds being used for advocating or promoting gun control" being in place. Again. Public funds are not supposed to be used to promote any one side of an issue.

Since when was studying the effects of anything promoting one side of an issue?

[bush_cheney2004]

As families start to gather for Christmas, I thought it would be wise for me to quote this post.

Which is the most disgusting post I've ever seen on this forum.

Why is it disgusting ? What kind of fool would accept such carnage as being better after "Christmas" ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Have fun reading HB 155. You are wrong.

Too late....the framework is already in place and the CDC can't stop it. Buy a vowel...get a clue. Remember, I live in the United States...you don't.

[cybercoma]

Since when was studying the effects of anything promoting one side of an issue?

Apparently they're supposed to write studies without conclusions.

[Bonam]

Why is it disgusting ? What kind of fool would accept such carnage as being better after "Christmas" ?

It seems to me that the "carnage" would be equally bad regardless of whether it is before or after the arbitrary date of some pagan holiday. Are there some days of the year when it is preferable to have your children massacred?

Edited December 24, 2012 by Bonam

[bush_cheney2004]

It seems to me that the "carnage" would be equally bad regardless of whether it is before or after the arbitrary date of some pagan holiday. Are there some days of the year when it is preferable to have your children massacred?

I think not. But that's just me.

[punked]

Too late....the framework is already in place and the CDC can't stop it. Buy a vowel...get a clue. Remember, I live in the United States...you don't.

So you lost the argument so the fall back about talking about or studying these issues is?

[betsy]

Another one!

](CNN)[/b] -- Four firefighters were shot, two fatally, while responding to a fire in upstate New York on Monday, and investigators believe the suspect had deliberately set a trap to lure them to the scene.

The alleged assailant, who also died, apparently took aim at the firefighters as they arrived at an early morning house and vehicle fire in the Rochester-area town of Webster, Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-firefighters-shooting/?hpt=us_c1

Surely they can't all be crazies? Either way....there's just too many of them!