First nations patiences waning

[login]

Learn to spell, but the Chief's plight moves me not.

yankees have no place in this discussion to state what is a concern for them

this is a canadian issue. learn your place

what the hell does an american know about treaty law

Edited December 29, 2012 by login

[TimG]

Oh come on, state-owned Chinese corporations appear to be deriving some benefit too.

And in return Canadians get the capital necessary to develop the oil sands. Without this capital the oil sands are worthless.

[Big Guy]

I find these “self starvation” to death threats a strange way to try to achieve a goal. It seems only to serve to get publicity since the threat appears to be mis-directed. It is like someone walking into a bank, pulling out a gun and holding it to his/her own temple and threatening to shoot unless they get the money. Also in our society, the mere fact that a person is prepared to commit suicide indicates that the person is suffering from some form of mental illness. Why would anyone acquiesce to the demands from somebody suffering from mental illness?

[Argus]

And the fact that people defend the status quo is rather insane.

The chiefs defend it. Why not? They're doing fine. Is there any chief on any reservation who is living in poverty?

[Argus]

The answer is to try to negotiate new treaties, which is basically what we are doing now with mixed success.

The problem so many people refuse to face is that natives claim every inch of Canada about eight times over. Every little band and tribe lays claim to vast swaths of territory, often overlapping, and demands billions in compensation. Why do you think no government of any stripe has every succeeded in doing anything more than negotiate the occasional settlement? Jean Chretien was an enthusiastic supporter of native rights and determined to break the treaty log jam for them as minister, but he soon lost his illusions.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Argus

[Argus]

Of course they're different. They have treaties with the Crown. You and I don't.

While there is no doubt that in some cases the crown has broken its obligations in terms of honoring certain land claims, many of the so-called treaties are undocumented and largely invented out of whole cloth. Bands and tribes put forth a treaty based upon what someone's great uncle walking bear heard from his own grandfather. It's nonsense and impossible to sort through.

[Argus]

Ours wasn't a conquest. Those "conquered" people defended our asses in 1812 and earlier against other Native tribes. They worked in partnership with us from the beginning.

This is nonsense, of course. Do you think the natives voluntarily removed themselves to reserves so as to not offend us with their bad manners and unfashionable clothing?

Edited December 29, 2012 by Argus

[Moonbox]

yankees have no place in this discussion to state what is a concern for them

this is a canadian issue. learn your place

what the hell does an american know about treaty law

You don't know anything about any law, so learn your place and stop talking. Your lack of punctuation, poor spelling and obviously complete lack of understanding of how the legal system works puts you in no position to criticize anyone. Like I said pages ago, it's clear the education system failed you, and it's equally clear that you didn't go to post-secondary. You're the worst kind of person to have running around frothing and raving about politics. You have passion, but no education and clearly no clue what you're talking about.

[dre]

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Edited December 29, 2012 by dre

[bush_cheney2004]

yankees have no place in this discussion to state what is a concern for them

LOL! Pot...Kettle...White.

this is a canadian issue. learn your place

Go read the Jay Treaty.

what the hell does an american know about treaty law

An American knows not to play stupid Crown games.

[Keepitsimple]

Here's some excerpts from an article from The Star - apparently by an independent reporter. Although the Federal government can offer assistance, First Nations have insisted that the government leave them alone to manage the money and provide leadership. Reading the article is very frustrating - and until First Nations step up to the plate and help their own (good bands helping less fortunate; relocating reservations, merging, melding, building, educating), we'll continue to run in circles.

In Attawapiskat, there is a huge question mark about what happened to the $95 million the reserve has received from the federal government since 2006. While Chief Theresa Spence is on a hunger strike in Ottawa, band council members here rebuffed each one of the Star’s interviews requests. Ignace Gull, the past chief of the reserve, also declined to talk to the Star.

Money has flowed into the reserve. Where it went is a mystery.

Few people want to talk about that because they fear repercussions.

There are houses on the reserve with 50-inch TVs, big computers; youngsters walk around with iPods. Shiny new trucks and snowmobiles whiz along the icy roads. Clearly, not everyone is poor. But where there is poverty, it is staggering. Some houses don’t have proper doors or windows to ward off the relentless wind. Others still don’t have running water. Many families lead a hand-to-mouth existence. Some subsist on bread, eggs and cheese, two of the cheapest things available at the Northern, the only store here, because it is subsidized by the government.

Sutherland is one of the more outspoken people on the reserve and he does not mince words when he says it has a lot to do with “leadership.” He says he is not talking about the federal government or the provincial ministry of Indian Affairs but leadership within the community.

“We need a strong leader, need someone to make tough decisions,” he says, adding business projects are needed so that there are more employment opportunities, more money coming into the reserve.

The well-being of a community starts at the top, he says. “You are only as good as the people around you,” says Sutherland, but quickly adds, “I am not knocking Theresa (Spence) down at all.”

Many children have never seen their parents go to work because there are no jobs. Many children don’t go to school because they feel the education is substandard.

Serena Koostachin, chief of the youth council and a recent high school graduate, says most young people believe schooling is a joke. “It is not as strict as schools down south ... so most do not go to school,” says the 20-year-old.

Link: http://www.thestar.c...-drug-addiction

Edited December 29, 2012 by Keepitsimple

[login]

I find these “self starvation” to death threats a strange way to try to achieve a goal. It seems only to serve to get publicity since the threat appears to be mis-directed. It is like someone walking into a bank, pulling out a gun and holding it to his/her own temple and threatening to shoot unless they get the money. Also in our society, the mere fact that a person is prepared to commit suicide indicates that the person is suffering from some form of mental illness. Why would anyone acquiesce to the demands from somebody suffering from mental illness?

no, hunger strikes are a recognized form of protest. keep grasping big guy

has nothing to do with mental illness it is courageous passive resistance.

Edited December 30, 2012 by login

[Merlin]

has nothing to do with mental illness it is courageous passive resistance.

The only thing she is resisting is the temptation to eat pies. By the look of her she isn't withering away and could stand to loose a few pounds. She isn't Gandhi, she's a middle aged women who makes more a lot of money per year to mismanage her bands funds which are supplied by the government. Perhaps the government will cut off her bands funding directly. The government needs to start taking control of the funds themselves because it's obvious that decades of letting these Indians do it has gone no where.

The natives aren't good at managing their own money, that's obvious. I'd like to see the treaty where it says that the government of Canada needs to endlessly support the Indian people of Canada. Perhaps we should start enforcing the treaties exactly as they are written instead of giving the Indians handouts.

[Big Guy]

no, hunger strikes are a recognized form of protest. keep grasping big guy

has nothing to do with mental illness it is courageous passive resistance.

Anything a person does could be “recognized” as a form of protest from immolation, to assassination, to mass murder, to picketing, to holding somebody hostage, to a hunger strike, to holding your breath, to …

I suggest that whether that form of protest is “courageous passive resistance”, a frivolous form of self promotion or an indicator of mental illness will depend on the subjective evaluation of the observer as to the expected end result of the protest. If one believes that the end justifies the means then there are no parameters or limitations as to the methodology employed.

I still do not believe that committing suicide (or the threat of doing so) is an indicator of a stable mind. I know that I would never take seriously anyone who would feel that the threat of committing suicide is an effective bargaining tool.

[cybercoma]

This is nonsense, of course. Do you think the natives voluntarily removed themselves to reserves so as to not offend us with their bad manners and unfashionable clothing?

Do you think they were on reserves in the 17th, 18th, and early 19th centuries? Because that's the time period I was talking about in the post you were replying to.

[login]

You don't know anything about any law, so learn your place and stop talking. Your lack of punctuation, poor spelling and obviously complete lack of understanding of how the legal system works puts you in no position to criticize anyone. Like I said pages ago, it's clear the education system failed you, and it's equally clear that you didn't go to post-secondary. You're the worst kind of person to have running around frothing and raving about politics. You have passion, but no education and clearly no clue what you're talking about.

I wasn't talking to you and you are clearly just sh1t disturbing.

why don't you add something meaningful to the discussion.

I don't need someone not even from Canada spewing feces onto a thread to which they have no insight.

You are out of touch.

Edited December 30, 2012 by login

[login]

Anything a person does could be “recognized” as a form of protest from immolation, to assassination, to mass murder, to picketing, to holding somebody hostage, to a hunger strike, to holding your breath, to …

I suggest that whether that form of protest is “courageous passive resistance”, a frivolous form of self promotion or an indicator of mental illness will depend on the subjective evaluation of the observer as to the expected end result of the protest. If one believes that the end justifies the means then there are no parameters or limitations as to the methodology employed.

I still do not believe that committing suicide (or the threat of doing so) is an indicator of a stable mind. I know that I would never take seriously anyone who would feel that the threat of committing suicide is an effective bargaining tool.

You are just being stupid.

https://www.google.c...iw=1366&bih=575

come back when you actually arn't in denile, insane or a lying manipulator.

People don't go on hunger strikes to die ignoramous, Your whole angle is faulty logic and bad rhetoric that only a moran! would be swayed by.

It is a strawman at best. at worst you are trying to get retards to be conservative party supporters. think about it.

Canada doesn't need more.

It is about the future.

Edited December 30, 2012 by login

[Guest]

Now Joe Clark has gone for a visit. Pretty soon Harper will be the only Canadian who hasn't met her.

[Argus]

Now Joe Clark has gone for a visit. Pretty soon Harper will be the only Canadian who hasn't met her.

Joe Who?

[login]

just retracting, it appears mulcair has not met spence, meaning there was a false report in either this article or the one that stated he had.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/28/health-minister-b-c-chief-urge-theresa-spence-to-end-hunger-strike-as-idle-no-more-protests-continue/

[Big Guy]

You are just being stupid.

https://www.google.c...iw=1366&bih=575

come back when you actually arn't in denile, insane or a lying manipulator.

People don't go on hunger strikes to die ignoramous, Your whole angle is faulty logic and bad rhetoric that only a moran! would be swayed by.

It is a strawman at best. at worst you are trying to get retards to be conservative party supporters. think about it.

Canada doesn't need more.

It is about the future.

After reading the content, tone, and civility of your response it re-enforces for me the accuracy of my opinion and the substance of yours. Your lack of manners is paralleled only by the lack of strength of your position. I assume that you do understand that in these forums the prime indicator of a lack of coherent support for a position is manifested in an unprovoked attack on any poster who does not share that position.

BTW, I have no intention of ever “coming back” to anything that you have to offer. It appears that you post not to encourage commentary but to create targets for your anger. You may find in the future that making phone calls is not very productive or informative when no one picks up at the receiving end. Please listen to this dial tone …

[Argus]

After reading the content, tone, and civility of your response it re-enforces for me the accuracy of my opinion and the substance of yours. Your lack of manners is paralleled only by the lack of strength of your position. I assume that you do understand that in these forums the prime indicator of a lack of coherent support for a position is manifested in an unprovoked attack on any poster who does not share that position.

BTW, I have no intention of ever “coming back” to anything that you have to offer. It appears that you post not to encourage commentary but to create targets for your anger. You may find in the future that making phone calls is not very productive or informative when no one picks up at the receiving end. Please listen to this dial tone …

That was one of the most civil yet effective smackdowns I've ever seen on this site. Grats

[cybercoma]

just retracting, it appears mulcair has not met spence, meaning there was a false report in either this article or the one that stated he had.

http://news.national...tests-continue/

Yeah. This is exactly what I'm talking about with the NDP now. They're too busy nitpicking petty nonsense to actually address big issues. At this rate they'll be back to third party in no time.

[ironstone]

I have to hand it to Spence,she seems to be easily winning the public relations battle.Unfortunately,nothing positive is likely to come out of this whole affair.Even more money,with little or no oversight will be poured into select Aboriginal hands to people like Theresa Spence.I think she is being totally unreasonable and is trying to cover up her own incompetence in managing the money handed over to her and the council members on a silver platter.

She looks remarkably well for someone that has allegedly had nothing to eat for three weeks.I hope she is at least actually staying in the tent and not in some posh hotel when the cameras stop rolling(remember the empty tents at night during the occupy movement).

I see this movement being pushed by corrupt chiefs who are more interested in staying on the gravy train while too many Aboriginals are the one's who pay the price.

[Canuckistani]

Good points. That's how it works. The squeaky Indigenous Peoples get some grease to shut them up, nothing ever changes.