F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[Rue]

Now with free trade we should get either the French or Swedish fighter or a mix of both. The F35 is over-rated and too expensive in my opinion,

I preferred in the past the US Navy's choices over the years in fighters including our last fighter. I can understand the desire to have wanted to choose a fighter everyone else was but enough already.

The F-14 was the best of the best. That was a jet.

Canada does not need a stealth fighter. It needs a log distance visible aircraft to show the flag. It also needs today, right now as I speak 5 submarines on each cost, at least 3 frigates on each cost, two honest to God destroyers for international operations, and a mimimum of 4 more icebreakers with 3 patrolling at all times up North.

Our crying need is a navy first, then an air-force with long distance fighters, then proper clothing and weapons for

soldiers. Clothing and rifles that work would be nice. So would a way to drive them around the North. Helicopters for search and rescue. Gosh that would be nice.

And another thing, for phacks sake enough already, hire more Inuit as rangers and have them patrol our northern waters. They can manage with proper equipment and rubber boats.

We need to use them as Rangers even more now to offset all the foreigners wanting to invade our North.

Harper get off your tuchus and do something. What about all that talk? You have left our armed forces decay no different than Trudeau.

No not Justin, Pierre. Stop it.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Rue

[On Guard for Thee]

Canada bombed Iraqi patrol boats and ground forces in 1991, flying missions from Qatar as part of the UN coalition forces.

Maybe you weren't born yet.

Canada refused to partake of Gulf War II because it was declared illegal. I was flying there. Maybe you weren't awake yet.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada refused to partake of Gulf War II because it was declared illegal. I was flying there. Maybe you weren't awake yet.

Nonsense...Canada provided more support to the invasion of Iraq than many coalition nations.

[On Guard for Thee]

Nonsense...Canada provided more support to the invasion of Iraq than many coalition nations.

No, that statement is nonsense. It was a "coalition of the willing" if you may recall. 49 countries. Canada was not among the willing. Now someone who did support it at the time was Harper. Although by 2008 when we somehow elected the bozo, he also agreed and made a statement that "the war was a mistake". Bravo Chretien.

[On Guard for Thee]

And if you notice, Bush doesn't travel a whole lot as some other past presidents do. I'm sure he doesn't have a lot to say that anyone is interested in anyway, but also, he needs to be careful as if he sets foot on a country that is a signatory to the ICC in the Hague, he could be arrested, because of Iraq.

[bush_cheney2004]

And if you notice, Bush doesn't travel a whole lot as some other past presidents do. I'm sure he doesn't have a lot to say that anyone is interested in anyway, but also, he needs to be careful as if he sets foot on a country that is a signatory to the ICC in the Hague, he could be arrested, because of Iraq.

Way off F-35 topic, but President Bush has visited Canada several times in and out of office...he was not arrested. Canada violated the treaty...the shame ! What is the penalty for violating the treaty...oh wait...nothing. President Bush has visited many countries, most recently South Africa.

All of these presidents have bombed Iraq....none fear arrest when visiting Canada.

Back to topic at hand....Canada will buy the F-35A....to bomb more "Iraqs"...again.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yeah I see presidents, no Canadian PM's though. Chretien said no. And the F 35 is as dead as a doornail here, as it is in many countries that initially showed interest.

[bush_cheney2004]

....And the F 35 is as dead as a doornail here, as it is in many countries that initially showed interest.

Wrong again...Canadian sub-contractors have already done over $500 million in F-35 business. And they want to do a lot more.

[On Guard for Thee]

Interesting correlation though with conservative governments and the aviation industry. Diefenbaker nixed the Avro arrow which could have boosted our economy a long way up. and Harper was trying to buy a plane that would have taken our economy a long way down. I guess conservatives just don't get the aviation industry.

[On Guard for Thee]

Wrong again...Canadian sub-contractors have already done over $500 million in F-35 business. And they want to do a lot more.

Oh I'm quite happy for Canadian companys to make money helping to build it. I just don't want Canadian taxpayer money wasted buying it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh I'm quite happy for Canadian companys to make money helping to build it. I just don't want Canadian taxpayer money wasted buying it.

Doesn't matter what you want either way. Watch and learn.

[bush_cheney2004]

Interesting correlation though with conservative governments and the aviation industry. Diefenbaker nixed the Avro arrow which could have boosted our economy a long way up.

No...as even Canada wouldn't buy its own Avro Arrow. No customers....no "jets".

[On Guard for Thee]

Nope. The liberals got voted out, Diefenbaker came in and the US, seeing they were about to get their you know what's kicked in the aviation busines, twisted his arm into buying the Bomarc missile. Yep and how many of those are still operationg? I can tell you. One. And the next thing you know all the major American aviation and space operations are being run by Canadians. Good move Diefenbaker.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nope. The liberals got voted out, Diefenbaker came in and the US, seeing they were about to get their you know what's kicked in the aviation busines,

Yet more nonsense...the Americans actually helped Avro develop the Arrow with resources Canada didn't even have (B-47 engine test bed, wind tunnels, Nike rockets for shape testing, missile, fire control, interim PW engines, etc.). The Arrow "jet" was obsolete before ever going into production. It was a fast but doomed white elephant that nobody would buy.

No worries, as I'm sure that Canada will enjoy its new CF-35's just as much as it enjoys CF-18's, CC-130's, and C-17's. Need some more Chinooks after the Liberals sold yours away for chump change ? America has more of those for you too.

[On Guard for Thee]

The Arrow would have ruled the skies untill the F18 came online. We traded that for Bomarc's. One base still exists. It's where the radio operators for the North Warning System sit in North Bay Ontario. How much did we piss into the wind on that nonsense.

[bush_cheney2004]

Don't feel too bad...the Arrow still rules the bottom of Lake Ontario. It sleeps with the fishes.

[DogOnPorch]

The Arrow was to be a dedicated interceptor more akin to the Tu-28 or the F-106 than some multi-role 'king-o-the-skies' like the F-4 II Phantom. It was to carry the Genie in most situations. No cannons or such...

...the Arrow still rules the bottom of Lake Ontario. It sleeps with the fishes.

It's like something out of 'The Music Man'...

[PIK]

Yet more nonsense...the Americans actually helped Avro develop the Arrow with resources Canada didn't even have (B-47 engine test bed, wind tunnels, Nike rockets for shape testing, missile, fire control, interim PW engines, etc.). The Arrow "jet" was obsolete before ever going into production. It was a fast but doomed white elephant that nobody would buy.

No worries, as I'm sure that Canada will enjoy its new CF-35's just as much as it enjoys CF-18's, CC-130's, and C-17's. Need some more Chinooks after the Liberals sold yours away for chump change ? America has more of those for you too.

Take a look at the aircraft that came out after the arrow. you will notice that they look just like the arrow. The arrow flies as we speak.

[DogOnPorch]

Take a look at the aircraft that came out after the arrow. you will notice that they look just like the arrow. The arrow flies as we speak.

Which one in particular? The F-4 Phantom II, for example, which dominated the skies from the late 1950s until the late 1980s certainly doesn't look much like the pure interceptor Avro Arrow.

[bush_cheney2004]

Take a look at the aircraft that came out after the arrow. you will notice that they look just like the arrow. The arrow flies as we speak.

Take a look at the aircraft that "came out" before the Arrow....notably Convair's F-106 Delta Dart...which only had one PW J75 engine, but compares well to the CF-105. The CF105's Iroquois engines never made it to prime time for what "could have been" (but never was). Form follows function, so the "look" of a clean design will be similar.

Edited December 27, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[DogOnPorch]

BC2004: Take a look at the aircraft that "came out" before the Arrow....notably Convair's F-106 Delta Dart...which only had one PW J75 engine, but compares well to the CF-105. The CF105's Iroquois engines never made it to prime time for what "could have been" (but never was). Form follows function, so the "look" of a clean design will be similar.

My old boss used to fly a F-106 twin seat for the California National Guard back in the 1970s. Blistering fast.

Edited December 28, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[bush_cheney2004]

My old boss used to fly a F-106 twin seat for the California National Guard back in the 1970s. Blistering fast.

Yep...they made blistering fast QF-106 target drones as well, serving proudly to the bitter end.

[Guest Derek L]

Now with free trade we should get either the French or Swedish fighter or a mix of both. The F35 is over-rated and too expensive in my opinion,

The French Rafale currently costs more then the F-35.......and the Swedish Gripen has been pulled by Saab.....

I preferred in the past the US Navy's choices over the years in fighters including our last fighter. I can understand the desire to have wanted to choose a fighter everyone else was but enough already.

The F-14 was the best of the best. That was a jet.

The Tomcat was the F-35 of it's day.......

Canada does not need a stealth fighter. It needs a log distance visible aircraft to show the flag. It also needs today, right now as I speak 5 submarines on each cost, at least 3 frigates on each cost, two honest to God destroyers for international operations, and a mimimum of 4 more icebreakers with 3 patrolling at all times up North.

Kind of like arming a cop with nothing but a high-viz vest worn by construction workers? Presence does not mater one iota without a viable means of deterrence and if required, action.

Our crying need is a navy first, then an air-force with long distance fighters, then proper clothing and weapons for

soldiers. Clothing and rifles that work would be nice. So would a way to drive them around the North. Helicopters for search and rescue. Gosh that would be nice.

The F-35 has the same range on internal fuel as our current Hornets do with three drop tanks…..

And another thing, for phacks sake enough already, hire more Inuit as rangers and have them patrol our northern waters. They can manage with proper equipment and rubber boats.

Proper equipment……like what?

We need to use them as Rangers even more now to offset all the foreigners wanting to invade our North.

Indigenous folks on snowmobiles, armed with ball-caps and an SMLE might offer presence to our North, but offer little in terms of deterrence……

[Guest Derek L]

Take a look at the aircraft that came out after the arrow. you will notice that they look just like the arrow. The arrow flies as we speak.

Not at all.......those aircraft expanded upon the Phantom......The Arrow was an interceptor that flew very fast in straight lines and was the size of small regional airliner…..Not an all singing and dancing fighter.....

[Guest Derek L]

Nonsense...Canada provided more support to the invasion of Iraq than many coalition nations.

In terms of naval assets, after you guys and the Kippers, the RCN had the third largest contingent in the Gulf…..As we discussed prior, the RCN played “escort” to the Bataan ARG in ’02 under the guise of OEF and such commitment dovetailed into late fall of ’03.…..all the while Bataan was a participant in Iraqi Freedom…..

.....So, after Bataan puked her Marines (and all their rotary wing assets) into Iraq, and reformed as a “Harrier Carrier” to provide CAS for the Allied Forces on the ground in Iraq:

What were RCN Destroyers and Frigates doing with the Bataan? Surely not gaining (combat) experience as an integral part(s) of a mini- carrier battle group, conducting near cyclic, high intensity air operations in a combat environment…….the closest we’ve had since the demise of the Bonaventure.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Derek L