F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[bush_cheney2004]

At the time, the PET Government was being shamed by our European NATO partners into replacement, once replacement and renewal was deemed important, the typical procurement pork barrelling was played out……strangely enough with Quebec sovereignists favouring a Canadian Quebec built F-16, all the while questioning the patriotism of PET (and briefly Joe Clark) for favouring an “American built aircraft”…..

OK, so that would mean no big peacemonger protests in the streets, no wailing and anger on the Interwebs (if it had existed), and no Raging Grannies singing songs at fairs and pubs. Fast forward to now and there is far more visibility and opportunity to challenge such a program, even with CF-18's scheduled to start falling out of the sky in six years. 'Course, that ain't 'nuthin for Mighty Sea Kings.

[Guest Derek L]

OK, so that would mean no big peacemonger protests in the streets, no wailing and anger on the Interwebs (if it had existed), and no Raging Grannies singing songs at fairs and pubs. Fast forward to now and there is far more visibility and opportunity to challenge such a program, even with CF-18's scheduled to start falling out of the sky in six years. 'Course, that ain't 'nuthin for Mighty Sea Kings.

Oh we certainly had our own home-grown “don’t nuke the whales crowd” , look no further then the protests at CFB Goose Bay (low level NATO strike training) and the testing of the Tomahawks in the Soviet Canadian “Steppes”, but ultimately European NATO partners (to say nothing of Ronnie Ray Guns) excreted pressure on Canada for it’s lacklustre commitments, so far as to raise the spectre of punitive economic penalties in some areas, until Canada made some motions towards pulling up it’s socks……

I posted this report in another thread done by CBC back in the early 80s that highlights Canada’s drastic failings under the then Liberal government:

And yes, it was that bad and the CBC was really accurate in their findings……..And many of those critiques can be applied to various areas of our Forces today sadly. Me thinks the CBC needs to get the band back together

[bush_cheney2004]

And yes, it was that bad and the CBC was really accurate in their findings……..And many of those critiques can be applied to various areas of our Forces today sadly. Me thinks the CBC needs to get the band back together

Damn....that was bad. Shockingly bad. No wonder it was called the "GIUK gap".

[Guest Derek L]

Damn....that was bad. Shockingly bad. No wonder it was called the "GIUK gap".

It most certainly was………and if Canadians, and in turn our politicians, don’t pay heed to past mistakes, we could very rapidly return to such a state within all the elements of the Canadian Forces……starting with the replacement of both our Hornets and Destroyers/Frigates……which is why the F-35 is in the forefront of Canadian Forces procurement.

[DogOnPorch]

Here's a vid from a few days back of an F-35 @ Hurlburt Field in Florida. It certainly is a very clean aircraft. Not a rivet in sight. A Dutch pilot does the check-out.

Edited December 31, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[waldo]

Here's a vid from a few days back of an F-35 @ Hurlburt Field in Florida. It certainly is a very clean aircraft. Not a rivet in sight. A Dutch pilot does the check-out.

well... that's quite the improvement from the relatively recent fake plane photo-op effort put forward by LockMart! But, uhhh... can it really do anything? How's that software coming along?

[waldo]

Another important milestone (like the earlier news of LGB) to demonstrate the F-35 will be able to meet it’s planned IOC dates, ~ summer of 2015 for the USMC and summer of 2016 for the USAF, and starting 2017 for several of the partner nations.

(bold highlighting added by the waldo)

I gave you an earlier pass on the ongoing IOC date shuffle/charade... I thought I'd wait on the upcoming OT&E report. But I certainly didn't have to wait on that, after all:

Experts to Study F-35 Software Delays

Frank Kendall, the Pentagon’s undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics, was ordered to put together a group to study the issue and submit a report to Congress by March 3 as part of 2014 National Defense Authorization Act, which sets policy goals and spending targets for the fiscal year that began Oct. 1.

Air Force Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, who oversees the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the Pentagon’s most expensive weapons acquisition program, and auditors from the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, have identified the aircraft’s software development “as an area of risk because of its complexity,” according to an earlier version of a report accompanying the legislation.

the article incorrectly associates a LockMart VP's statement on the number of lines of code... the reference made to 8 million lines of code is actually the "2F" version... not the ultimate "3F" 20 million lines of code package deemed the "full software package". And speaking of the above quoted F-35 cheerleader's reference to IOC dates, per the article:

By using a more limited version of the software, the Marine Corps plans to begin operational flights of the fighter jet in 2015, followed by the Air Force in 2016 and the Navy in 2019.

The full software package, known as 3F, is designed to support a suite of internal and external weapons, including the GPS-guided Joint Direct Attack Munition, laser-guided Paveway II bomb, Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, and infrared Sidewinder missile.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada's brand spanking new F-35's will be able to use all of the 1300 GBU-12 Paveway 2 laser guided bombs that it purchased after expending about 240 bombs on Libya.

Edited December 31, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest Derek L]

I gave you an earlier pass on the ongoing IOC date shuffle/charade... I thought I'd wait on the upcoming OT&E report. But I certainly didn't have to wait on that, after all:

Experts to Study F-35 Software Delays

the article incorrectly associates a LockMart VP's statement on the number of lines of code... the reference made to 8 million lines of code is actually the "2F" version... not the ultimate "3F" 20 million lines of code package deemed the "full software package". And speaking of the above quoted F-35 cheerleader's reference to IOC dates, per the article:

And from your linked piece:

By using a more limited version of the software, the Marine Corps plans to begin operational flights of the fighter jet in 2015, followed by the Air Force in 2016 and the Navy in 2019.

This is not news Waldo, we talked about this before…….Even with the initial 2F package, the aircraft will still be a vast improvement over the F-16s, Harrier II and F/A-18C/Ds that it will replace in USAF and USMC service, hence why the IOC for both the USAF & USMC have been moved forward….

Based on reducing costs and further nations joining the program, I’m curious as to what point you’ll see you’re on the wrong side of history?

Clearly if the Waldo and some bloggers disparage the program, one would think nations would be running away from it in droves….that has yet to happen though

[DogOnPorch]

well... that's quite the improvement from the relatively recent fake plane photo-op effort put forward by LockMart! But, uhhh... can it really do anything? How's that software coming along?

AirBoyd is a great YouTube channel. All sorts of videos are sent in, both civilian and military.

The best combat aircraft do absolutely nothing for their entire careers. As I've already pointed out, the SR-72 is going to be a reality. That's the sort of environment 2030 will be on the high end. Anywhere on the planet in one hour...on demand...kaboom. Even ICBMs will be facing competition. That will certainly start an arms race. So we better think ahead...and ahead isn't some design from the middle of the previous century.

[DogOnPorch]

Canada's brand spanking new F-35's will be able to use all of the 1300 GBU-12 Paveway 2 laser guided bombs that it purchased after expending about 240 bombs on Libya.

With a 3 foot CEP...pretty deadly indeed.

Ding!

[waldo]

This is not news Waldo, we talked about this before…….Even with the initial 2F package, the aircraft will still be a vast improvement over the F-16s, Harrier II and F/A-18C/Ds that it will replace in USAF and USMC service, hence why the IOC for both the USAF & USMC have been moved forward….

if you have a foundation to support that claim... other than your personal opinion, please provide it. More pointedly, there's nothing in that article to suggest the actual "scaled down software version" the U.S. Marines & USAF will use in relation to that puffed-up IOC date is even the 2F package. If you can actually confirm that... please do.

of course you just fly on by the raised concern over software delays - of course you do! What the article really highlights is the real state of the F-35 in relation to all the propaganda you post. I'll try again: are you prepared to offer up any LockMart comments on what to expect within the upcoming release of the next iteration of the OT&E report? As before, as always, you go real silent whenever these U.S. Government auditing type reports are discussed. Is there a problem?

.

Based on reducing costs and further nations joining the program, I’m curious as to what point you’ll see you’re on the wrong side of history?

reduced costs? You know you get in real trouble when we talk costs... you have this habit of making boastful pronouncements without realizing you're quoting costs without... engines, etc. Do you have some revised LockMart costing you're prepared to puff-up over?

your "wrong side of history" is fluff. All I need to do is ask you to put up the actual committed procurement numbers... and compare those to the initial stated commitments. Do that for all branches of the U.S. military, original JSFail partner nations and new countries. Somehow you keep ignoring this request, particularly when you're asked to translate those actual committed procurement numbers into program cost impacts... original costing versus current costing.

.

Clearly if the Waldo and some bloggers disparage the program, one would think nations would be running away from it in droves….that has yet to happen though

like I said, put up the actual committed purchases, original commitments and impacts on program costs.

.

[bush_cheney2004]

How much does Canadian industry love the F-35 Lightning II program ? Let us count the ways:

• Apex (New Brunswick) was recently selected to manufacture bracket structures for the F-35 forward fuselage and wing sections that support the Conventional Take-Off and Landing (CTOL) and Carrier Variant (CV).
  
• Avcorp Industries (British Columbia) is contracted by BAE Systems as the sole source supplier for the outboard wing assembly which is unique to the F-35 CV.

• Asco Aerospace (British Columbia) manufactures the most complex titanium bulkhead in the F-35 wing section, the critical longeron structure and aluminum frames for the forward fuselage, and the titanium leading edge spars for Avcorp's CV outboard wing.
  
• CMC Electronics (Quebec) produces an optical transceiver for Harris Corporation that is used in up to 57 different locations on the F-35. CMC also provides a Laser Range Receiver module used in the Electro Optical Targeting System.
  
• Celestica (Ontario) produces more than 15 printed circuit boards for the F-35 Power and Thermal Management System (PTMS). The components are provided to Honeywell Aerospace, in Toronto, for assembly into complex controller subsystem.
  
• Composites Atlantic (Nova Scotia) manufactures F-35 outer moldline skins for Northrop Grumman. The panels are on the upper center fuselage. They also manufacture complex composite inserts for the weapons bay doors.
  
• GasTOPS (Ontario) designs and manufactures unique sensors for the Pratt & Whitney F-135 engine which powers all F-35 aircraft. The sensors provide engine bearing and blade health information to improve the management of maintenance tasks. GasTOPS is also developing a blade health sensor for the lift fan which will be used on all F-35 STOVL aircraft.
  
• Handling Specialties (Ontario) designed and produced unique, new technology assembly tooling used to manufacture the F-35 wings at Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas. Handling also produced tooling used in the final assembly and checkout of the aircraft.
  
• Heroux Devtek (Ontario/Quebec) is contracted to assemble aluminum boxes for the complex Power Thermal Management System (PTMS) developed and produced by Honeywell Aerospace in Toronto. These units are on every F-35 variant. Heroux Devtek also designed, qualified and now produces all the uplocks for the main and nose landing gear doors.
  
• ITL Circuits (Ontario) manufactures printed circuit boards for the external lighting on all F-35 aircraft.
  
• Magellan Aerospace (Manitoba/Ontario) has been on the F-35 program since the concept demonstration phase in 1998. Magellan has contracts with Lockheed Martin, BAES and Rolls Royce. Multiple business areas produce critical components including CTOL horizontal tails, engine gear box casings for the F-135 engines, the roll post doors and the lift fan vane box for all STOVL aircraft.
  
• NGRAIN (British Columbia) developed critical software for the Low Observable Health Assessment System (LOHAS) system which helps maintain the F-35 outer skin during operations. LOHAS helps maintainers insure the outer stealth and aerodynamics of the F-35 are in a ready condition between flights and provides guidance if any service is needed.

Edited December 31, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Peter F]

This f35 thing is a cash cow!. We don't even have to buy the thing and Canada makes oodles off it. Hopefully we won't ever make the mistake of paying the operational costs of the damn thing and cut into our profit margins.

[DogOnPorch]

...or let those companies relocate closer to the action so-to-speak.

[waldo]

vapourware!

[bush_cheney2004]

Ontario needs the F-35 really bad...the province has lost over 300,000 manufacturing jobs in the past 10 years. Skyrocketing hydro costs and taxes have grounded economic growth while the debt keeps piling up. The F-35 JSF is a jobs program for Ontario.

[Guest Derek L]

if you have a foundation to support that claim... other than your personal opinion, please provide it. More pointedly, there's nothing in that article to suggest the actual "scaled down software version" the U.S. Marines & USAF will use in relation to that puffed-up IOC date is even the 2F package. If you can actually confirm that... please do.

What software package is currently within the avionics and engine ?

of course you just fly on by the raised concern over software delays - of course you do! What the article really highlights is the real state of the F-35 in relation to all the propaganda you post. I'll try again: are you prepared to offer up any LockMart comments on what to expect within the upcoming release of the next iteration of the OT&E report? As before, as always, you go real silent whenever these U.S. Government auditing type reports are discussed. Is there a problem?

It’s called pragmatism……..how many programmers read Ada? Hence the delays……….by comparison, the Chevy Volt has twice as many lines of code and the Windows operating system four or five times that again……the difference? The Volt and your home PC isn’t expected to survive a modern electromagnetically radiated battlefield……

reduced costs? You know you get in real trouble when we talk costs... you have this habit of making boastful pronouncements without realizing you're quoting costs without... engines, etc. Do you have some revised LockMart costing you're prepared to puff-up over?

Provided weeks/months ago...

your "wrong side of history" is fluff. All I need to do is ask you to put up the actual committed procurement numbers... and compare those to the initial stated commitments. Do that for all branches of the U.S. military, original JSFail partner nations and new countries. Somehow you keep ignoring this request, particularly when you're asked to translate those actual committed procurement numbers into program cost impacts... original costing versus current costing.

How many nations started the program and how many are participating as of now?

like I said, put up the actual committed purchases, original commitments and impacts on program costs.

Already have.....

[waldo]

What software package is currently within the avionics and engine ? [waldo: I'd laugh at that answer as well... again, you have no foundation to presume on what "tailored" software might be jigged-up to line-up with those dancing IOC dates. Thanks for (again) confirming you're simply winging it here!]

It’s called pragmatism……..how many programmers read Ada? Hence the delays……….by comparison, the Chevy Volt has twice as many lines of code and the Windows operating system four or five times that again……the difference? The Volt and your home PC isn’t expected to survive a modern electromagnetically radiated battlefield……

[waldo: pragmatic and F-35 results/successes have no correlation! Ada? Really? Are you sure?... my understanding is that the majority of F-35 code is written in C/C++... 5% (at best) is written in Ada (and that reflects on the F-22 and what's reuseable within the F-35. In any case, any programmer of merit today knows how to code in C/C++. The correct answers as to why the software is so delayed is due to; 1- increased complexity associated with the very nature of the "joint" variant commonality... you know... the failed concept highlighted in the Rand study I recently put forward, and 2- concurrency (again, another failed methodology within the F-35 development approach), and 3- apparently... significant mismanagement within the program itself.]

Provided weeks/months ago... [waldo: oh my! That's... the costing you presented and presumed included engine costs! I asked if you had anything new!]

How many nations started the program and how many are participating as of now? [waldo: nice dodge! Again, let me re-quote what you're dodging... so you can dodge it again: "All I need to do is ask you to put up the actual committed procurement numbers... and compare those to the initial stated commitments. Do that for all branches of the U.S. military, original JSFail partner nations and new countries. Somehow you keep ignoring this request, particularly when you're asked to translate those actual committed procurement numbers into program cost impacts... original costing versus current costing.]

Already have..... [waldo: BS you have! Here, dodge the request again: "like I said, put up the actual committed purchases, original commitments and impacts on program costs.]

"

[Guest Derek L]

blah blah blah

As I’ve said to you numerous times, let me know when one, just one, partner leaves the program……..till then, as you were

[waldo]

blah blah blah

take the carrots out of your ears... the truth will set you free!

.

[Guest Derek L]

take the carrots out of your ears... the truth will set you free!

.

Clearly:

[bush_cheney2004]

Clearly:

Ouch ! That's a lot more cooperation than they have for Global Warming...errr...Climate Change.

[Guest Derek L]

Ouch ! That's a lot more cooperation than they have for Global Warming...errr...Climate Change.

And that graphic is a few years old……devoid of industry participation from Israel, Japan and South Korea

[waldo]

And that graphic is a few years old……devoid of industry participation from Israel, Japan and South Korea

way to reinforce your personal attachments... clearly, the obviously acknowledged "jobs program" reach of the MIC (and the impact on your much touted personal LockMart stock portfolio), is more important to you than the real measure (over budget, under delivery, under performance, over hype) of the failed F-35!

"Too big/too expensive too kill"..... clearly, LockMart learned the lesson from the F-22 cancellation.

by the by... what are these "murmurs" starting to float about the much touted/vaunted F-35 "win" in South Korea? Is there a problem? Around go-around with all players coming back for... round 3? Wassup?