F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[bush_cheney2004]

There you be, so clearly posting the Monty Python clip got me tossed........but as I said, I fail to see what this has to do with the F-35.....

Sure looks that way.....the owner/mods should have never enabled embedded images or video content if that is frowned upon as "clutter". They were warned of exactly such an outcome. Pounding an issue with satire or sarcasm is acceptable in most circles, just not here ?

[Guest Derek L]

Sure looks that way.....the owner/mods should have never enabled embedded images or video content if that is frowned upon as "clutter". They were warned of exactly such an outcome. Pounding an issue with satire or sarcasm is acceptable in most circles, just not here ?

Well, like I said, it's not my site, so not my rules..........The irony I find in this slight sidebar is that it was brought up by a member that ignores you, well is placed on ignore by several other posters that I know of……meh

But to get back on topic:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20131021/DEFREG01/310210014/Turkey-Reissue-F-35-Order

ANKARA — Turkey’s procurement authorities will reissue an order for the first two F-35 joint strike fighters the country intended to buy but suspended at the beginning of this year.

“We will submit a request to the Defense Industry Executive Committee in December or January to renew our order for the first two aircraft,” Turkey’s top procurement official, Murad Bayar, said.

More good news for the program, fore Turkey:

After the initial purchase of the two jets, Turkey plans to order 100 stealth fighters to replace its F-4 Phantoms and F-16 Fighting Falcons. Bayar said Turkey remains committed to the full acquisition.

And I fully expect, maybe prior to the New Year, for the British to order their first tranche of 48 F-35Bs for the RN and RAF.

[bush_cheney2004]

More good news for the program, fore Turkey:

And I fully expect, maybe prior to the New Year, for the British to order their first tranche of 48 F-35Bs for the RN and RAF.

Bickering over the cost is a fool's endeavour...it's not like the U.S. is going to shut the program down now. Momentum is building as risks are bounded and mitigated. Unless something extraordinary happens, the F-35 will be Canada's next strike fighter.

Edited October 21, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest Derek L]

Bickering over the cost is a fool's endeavour...it's not like the U.S. is going to shut the program down now. Momentum is building as risks are bounded and mitigated. Unless something extraordinary happens, the F-35 will be Canada's next strike fighter.

My thoughts exactly, especially since (as long predicted) the costs are dropping…….I fully expect movement from the Canadian side of things this coming Spring, I doubt the actual signing of the full contract, but I expect the restated intention to buy, followed by a “surprise announcement” that one of our bases has been selected as a International F-35 Training center…..

[bush_cheney2004]

but I expect the restated intention to buy, followed by a “surprise announcement” that one of our bases has been selected as a International F-35 Training center…..

Agreed...the shared contract fix is in as subsystem and component manufacturing goes to partner nations. Peacemongers don't have a chance to stop this now that they have bent the cost curve downward. Is it too early to speak of 'CF-35s" ?

[Guest Derek L]

Agreed...the shared contract fix is in as subsystem and component manufacturing goes to partner nations. Peacemongers don't have a chance to stop this now that they have bent the cost curve downward. Is it too early to speak of 'CF-35s" ?

I think not.........then again, I have yet to stop

[Guest Derek L]

To add, what I'll receive no small amount of joy in watching will be the Canadian contract coming in on budget, or even the possibility based on the downward spiral in cost (roughly 6-7% between tranches/LRIP contracts) of it coming in slightly under budget, and then watching the Opposition parties “spin it”…….I fully expect the NDP to take the stance that they are responsible for controlling costs due to their shrill opposition and they are fully behind supporting Canada‘s aerospace industry, in particular Quebec piece of the pie, well the Federal Liberals take the tact of saying they knew it would be a success from the onset and this is why they involved us in the program, and if not for the Harper Governments dawdling, we’d already have the CF-35 in service…..

(Book)Mark my words

[AlienB]

Bickering over the cost is a fool's endeavour...it's not like the U.S. is going to shut the program down now. Momentum is building as risks are bounded and mitigated. Unless something extraordinary happens, the F-35 will be Canada's next strike fighter.

Canada doesn't have a strike fighter further it has me wonder seriously why the hell Canada is buying into a strike fighter.

A government facing the polls very may give a bone to the public on this issue to appease those with more common sense. It could happen. Going all in on this for the next 30 years is just complete stupidity with the information available. The US has no plans on that course of action and either should Canada. The plan has to budget for future acquisitions the price tag and quantity isn't right.

[Guest Derek L]

Canada doesn't have a strike fighter further it has me wonder seriously why the hell Canada is buying into a strike fighter.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada doesn't have a strike fighter further it has me wonder seriously why the hell Canada is buying into a strike fighter.

Say what ? OK...we will just call Canada's high performance military aircraft with hard mounting points for tactical munitions and targeting pods "Peace Fighters".

A government facing the polls very may give a bone to the public on this issue to appease those with more common sense. It could happen. Going all in on this for the next 30 years is just complete stupidity with the information available. The US has no plans on that course of action and either should Canada. The plan has to budget for future acquisitions the price tag and quantity isn't right.

Sure...the political battles aren't over yet, but the war sure is. Canada will be buying several dozen F-35s. Can't go any worse than buying helicopters has gone.

[Guest Derek L]

Say what ? OK...we will just call Canada's high performance military aircraft with hard mounting points for tactical munitions and targeting pods "Peace Fighters".

Indeed.......The intent behind purchasing the Hornet in the first place was two-fold…….First it’s radar and ability to chuck AIM-7s at Red bombers up North, but more so, for our NATO commitment in Germany to help contribute to SACEUR’s ability to strike at the Red Hordes flowing through the Fulda Gap….

[bush_cheney2004]

Indeed.......The intent behind purchasing the Hornet in the first place was two-fold…….First it’s radar and ability to chuck AIM-7s at Red bombers up North, but more so, for our NATO commitment in Germany to help contribute to SACEUR’s ability to strike at the Red Hordes flowing through the Fulda Gap….

It's cool...if I have learned one thing here it is that a significant portion of Canadians really believe that their war machines are only for "peaceful" purposes. General H. tried to clue them in, but it is a classic case of "La La La...can't hear you !! "

[DogOnPorch]

It's cool...if I have learned one thing here it is that a significant portion of Canadians really believe that their war machines are only for "peaceful" purposes. General H. tried to clue them in, but it is a classic case of "La La La...can't hear you !! "

Canadians see the army as folks who will shovel your snow if it gets too deep.

[Guest Derek L]

It's cool...if I have learned one thing here it is that a significant portion of Canadians really believe that their war machines are only for "peaceful" purposes. General H. tried to clue them in, but it is a classic case of "La La La...can't hear you !! "

Based on our experience with the Hornet and it’s operational use in our service, I suppose one could argue that it helped achieve peace by killing a whole whack of people that ran counter to our Government's designs.

[bush_cheney2004]

Based on our experience with the Hornet and it’s operational use in our service, I suppose one could argue that it helped achieve peace by killing a whole whack of people that ran counter to our Government's designs.

Yes..."Peacemonger" killin' is the most righteous kind ! Protecting "human rights" deserves the best in GPS and laser guided munitions.

[Guest Derek L]

Yes..."Peacemonger" killin' is the most righteous kind ! Protecting "human rights" deserves the best in GPS and laser guided munitions.

You're remiss in noting the delivery vehicle of said peacemaking weaponry……I’m certain the F-35 will afford Canadian Governments for decades to come the ability to deliver peace upon all evil doers

[bush_cheney2004]

…I’m certain the F-35 will afford Canadian Governments for decades to come the ability to deliver peace upon all evil doers

Yes..it is written in the Bible....CF-35s will perform the "human rights" work of The Lord:

Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

[Guest Derek L]

Yes..it is written in the Bible....CF-35s will perform the "human rights" work of The Lord:

Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

Watch the religious talk, half the fleet will be based in Le Fjord-du-Saguenay/Bagotville……..

Edited October 21, 2013 by Derek L

[bleeding heart]

Ah, good ol' Jules! He knew how to perform overkill on a smackdown.

[DogOnPorch]

B-1 Lancers at Dyess AFB on Oct 19th, 2013. Originally supposed to be a dash bomber similar to the B-58 Hustler mission-profile wise, they've gone on to be quite the multi-role machine. Those (cough) old enough will recall the hoopla over these being built in the first place...canceled then resurrected. Shades of today's F-35s...lol.

The B-58 Hustler for comparison purposes. Another expensive controversial aircraft...that was built and entered service.

[Guest Derek L]

B-1 Lancers at Dyess AFB on Oct 19th, 2013. Originally supposed to be a dash bomber similar to the B-58 Hustler mission-profile wise, they've gone on to be quite the multi-role machine. Those (cough) old enough will recall the hoopla over these being built in the first place...canceled then resurrected. Shades of today's F-35s...lol.

Not really.......The Joint Strike Fighter program, born within the Clinton Administration, has had bipartisan support since it’s inception with the United States…….and the overwhelming majority of JSF partner nations……..Even with the bipolar stance of our Federal Liberals on the program, I fully expect in the months ahead for their position on the F-35 to “soften” and eventually approach support.

I expect this for three key reasons:

1. Costs and development are progressing positively, as such, they will lose the creditability attacking a successful program

2. The negative impact leaving the program would have on our Aerospace industry, an industry spread across Canada, but mostly focused (in it’s involvement in the F-35 program) around metro Montreal and Vancouver……both vote rich regions the Liberals will need to make gains in during the next election

3. The naming of retired General Andrew Leslie as the young Trudeau's “military advisor”…….

Edited October 22, 2013 by Derek L

[DogOnPorch]

I mean the beechin' and complaining from the public who had little clue as to what they even were. Not the process.

[bush_cheney2004]

No need to be subtle about such things:

The U.S. company that makes the controversial F-35 fighter is publicly warning that Canadian industry stands to lose as much as $10.5-billion in spinoff contracts if the federal government ends up not buying the warplane.

Orlando Carvalho, executive vice-president of aeronautics at Lockheed Martin, delivered this cautionary message in Montreal on Friday. He said Canadian companies can keep the roughly $500-million in fighter-related contracts they have, but no more F-35 work would be likely for this country if Ottawa does not embrace the Lockheed plane.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-company-says-backing-out-of-f-35-deal-will-cost-canada/article14324026/

[Guest Derek L]

No need to be subtle about such things:

The U.S. company that makes the controversial F-35 fighter is publicly warning that Canadian industry stands to lose as much as $10.5-billion in spinoff contracts if the federal government ends up not buying the warplane.

Orlando Carvalho, executive vice-president of aeronautics at Lockheed Martin, delivered this cautionary message in Montreal on Friday. He said Canadian companies can keep the roughly $500-million in fighter-related contracts they have, but no more F-35 work would be likely for this country if Ottawa does not embrace the Lockheed plane.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-company-says-backing-out-of-f-35-deal-will-cost-canada/article14324026/

Incidentally, many of the Federal ridings that would be hurt the most are currently held by the NDP…….

[waldo]

How are they unqualified? As per the NGFC, or eve similar contracts & programs outlined by the other partners, engines, spares, training aides etc are sold separately..This is not only so with the F-35, but all similar contracts, I seem to recall earlier this year us going over this when you claimed a per price from Boeing for Super Hornets devoid of engines, EW and target pods and like.

I can't make it any clearer... twice now (that I've observed), you have purposely put up flyaway costs that don't include engines. While doing so you compared those costs to the Harper Conservative and/or KPMG review costs (which included full costs inclusive of engine). This is no trivial "oversight" in that earlier LRIP costs for a F-35 engine were ~$20-$25 million. As I'm aware, it keeps being pointed out that Pratt & Whitney "refuse" to release the current costs for engines for the respective versions. Of course, this play directly into your game/sham since the costs (sans engine) are the only ones available.

in this latest exchange, after I point this out to you, you have the audacity to claim engine costs were within your supplied link..... ya, "go fetch". If you're aware of the engine costs (interesting since I can't find the latest cost anywhere!), why would you put up costs (without engine cost) and presume to compare that back to initial (full cost estimates that included engine cost)? Why?