Reality-Based Politics

[August1991]

In the real world, different people sometimes produce benefits for other people.

In the real world, some left-handed people produce benefits for right-handed people.

In the real world, some left-handed people marry another left-handed person.

In the real world, the State can help some people co-operate.

In the real world, more State fiat money can help some people during a general economic recession.

In the real world, the State can sometimes destroy individual freedom.

In the real world, gravity forces all people down to earth.

Edited November 29, 2012 by August1991

[cybercoma]

In the real world, people sometimes make coherent OPs.

[guyser]

Pass the bong , stop bogarting that will ya?

[blueblood]

In the real world, people sometimes make coherent OPs.

Ha ha ha ha ha

[kimmy]

I think that August is trying to remind us that the black-and-white rhetoric of both sides of the political spectrum doesn't really correspond to real-world issues, and that the common good is best served when politicians put pragmatism ahead of dogma.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

No, sometimes dogma and ideology are exactly what is required. Either way, such a concept would apply to more than U.S. politics and political spectrum.

[sharkman]

In the real world, the US voter didn't buy into the Romney(stark) view of the economy, and opted for the feel good vibe coming from the Obama campaign. They chose to believe that things weren't as bad as all that.

Edited November 30, 2012 by sharkman

[Guest American Woman]

In the real world, the US voter didn't buy into the Romney(stark) view of the economy, and opted for the feel good vibe coming from the Obama campaign. They chose to believe that things weren't as bad as all that.

In the real world, some US voters didn't vote with only the economy in mind.

[sharkman]

Yes, although I would suggest that those voters if asked wouldn't have seen the economy as dire as Romney's opinion of it.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes, although I would suggest that those voters if asked wouldn't have seen the economy as dire as Romney's opinion of it.

Not everyone relied on Obama's or Romney's opinion regarding the economy, but rather formed their own opinion.

[August1991]

In the real world, people sometimes make coherent OPs.

The latest Leftist buzzword/phrase is "reality-based politics". (google)

You know, it was once "global warming", then "climate change". Same diff. Or how about "progressive", it was once a leftist buzz-word too, like social or modern. "Social justice", typical modern leftist bafflegab.

To be cynical, leftists use words the way some men use women.

I think that August is trying to remind us that the black-and-white rhetoric of both sides of the political spectrum doesn't really correspond to real-world issues, and that the common good is best served when politicians put pragmatism ahead of dogma.

Kimmy, ever the optimist.

"With all this shit, there must be a Shiny Pony!"

Edited December 1, 2012 by August1991

[Bonam]

To be cynical, leftists use words the way some men use women.

Care to elaborate?

[cybercoma]

The latest Leftist buzzword/phrase is "reality-based politics". (google)

You know, it was once "global warming", then "climate change". Same diff. Or how about "progressive", it was once a leftist buzz-word too, like social or modern. "Social justice", typical modern leftist bafflegab.

To be cynical, leftists use words the way some men use women.

Kimmy, ever the optimist.

"With all this shit, there must be a Shiny Pony!"

Oh boy. A thread specifically for bashing the Left.

[Guest American Woman]

To be cynical, leftists use words the way some men use women.

Hmmm.... turning that around, 'conservative men use women the way some leftists use words.' Fair statement?

[Michael Hardner]

Please ... only someone who is blind to the mechanics of politics could claim that the left is the side that creates buzzwords. This is part of defining the debate and both sides have teams of PR people and ad agencies who try to come up with the perfect phrase to frame their point of view in a way that gives them political traction.

Weapons of Mass Destruction, Axis of Evil, Family Values, Obamacare etc. etc.

[kimmy]

No, sometimes dogma and ideology are exactly what is required.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I'm among those who would accept very little compromise of ideology when it comes to our fundamental freedoms.

But on economic issues... trying to make your choices based purely on dogma with no regard for practicality seems ridiculous to me. I think the dumbest thing going on in the US right now is the impact the Grover Norquist pledge is having on the fiscal cliff negotiations.

Either way, such a concept would apply to more than U.S. politics and political spectrum.

US political spectrum? Debatable. US politics? Agreed, as some US politicians and some US media make everything seem more polarized than it really is. "reality based politics" was no doubt coined by Americans, and I'm sure they had American politics in mind when they coined it.

-k

[kimmy]

Kimmy, ever the optimist.

"With all this shit, there must be a Shiny Pony!"

I need to get that printed on a t-shirt!

Please ... only someone who is blind to the mechanics of politics could claim that the left is the side that creates buzzwords. This is part of defining the debate and both sides have teams of PR people and ad agencies who try to come up with the perfect phrase to frame their point of view in a way that gives them political traction.

Weapons of Mass Destruction, Axis of Evil, Family Values, Obamacare etc. etc.

"Redistribution of wealth" and "pro-growth" were a couple from the last cycle.

edit to add: "the job creators!" as a term for describing everybody making more than $250,000 a year.

-k

Edited December 1, 2012 by kimmy

[kimmy]

In the real world, the US voter didn't buy into the Romney(stark) view of the economy, and opted for the feel good vibe coming from the Obama campaign. They chose to believe that things weren't as bad as all that.

In the real world, some US voters didn't vote with only the economy in mind.

And I'm sure that many more who did vote with the economy in mind didn't believe that Willard's "plan" would have helped anybody except Willard and his friends.

-k

[dre]

I need to get that printed on a t-shirt!

"Redistribution of wealth" and "pro-growth" were a couple from the last cycle.

edit to add: "the job creators!" as a term for describing everybody making more than $250,000 a year.

-k

We force them to use silly jingoistic slogans and catchphrases. These people are trying to appeal to an ever more stupid electorate. Most people simply dont have the attention span for anything more than "gotcha politics".

[bush_cheney2004]

...Weapons of Mass Destruction, Axis of Evil, Family Values, Obamacare etc. etc.

Or these: American-style, Americanization, Ethical Oil, Liveable Wage, Human Rights, etc.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I'm among those who would accept very little compromise of ideology when it comes to our fundamental freedoms.

And yet, many of those "fundamental freedoms" are exactly that....ideology and dogma.

US political spectrum? Debatable. US politics? Agreed, as some US politicians and some US media make everything seem more polarized than it really is. "reality based politics" was no doubt coined by Americans, and I'm sure they had American politics in mind when they coined it.

I doubt that, as the concept goes way back to at least Lenin if not further. I suppose watching so much American media probably makes it seem that way.

[Bonam]

We force them to use silly jingoistic slogans and catchphrases. These people are trying to appeal to an ever more stupid electorate. Most people simply dont have the attention span for anything more than "gotcha politics".

Care to provide some evidence demonstrating how the stupidity of the electorate has increased over time?

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe the electorate has just voted contrary to the views of the self anointed elites, and are "stupid" for doing so.

[blueblood]

And I'm sure that many more who did vote with the economy in mind didn't believe that Willard's "plan" would have helped anybody except Willard and his friends.

-k

It's a pretty easy sell when your idea is to pillage 1 percent of the populations wallet while 99 percent of the electorate Get a tax cut. That sell was made in 1917 Russia, Cuba, venezula, etc.

Lynch mob politics instead of dealing with reality.

[BubberMiley]

That sell was made in 1917 Russia, Cuba, venezula, etc.

You're right. Slightly raising the income taxes of the very rich is exactly the same as 1917 Russia.

Lynch mob politics instead of dealing with reality.

You're right. Slightly raising the income taxes of the very rich is exactly the same as lynching them.