So tell us again how the Arab Spring was Democracy in Action.

[Boges]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/23/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Cairo (CNN) -- Protesters stormed the headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood's political wing in Alexandria on Friday, state TV reported, a day after Egyptian President Mohamed Morsy issued orders that essentially allow him to run the country unchecked until a new constitution is drafted.

The Freedom and Justice Party's building was set afire during the protest, Nile TV reported. Demonstrators also rallied Friday in Cairo against Morsy and the growing influence of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Morsy's spokesman announced Thursday that the president had issued an order preventing any court from overturning his decisions. Morsy also ordered retrials and reinvestigations in the deaths of protesters during last year's uprising against strongman Hosni Mubarak. That could lead to the reprosecution of Mubarak, currently serving a life prison term, and several acquitted officials who served under him.

So you want Mubarak out, you protest, he leaves, you get an election, you elect The Muslim Brotherhood and you act surprised when they try to seize absolute power?

This was the least surprising result of the Arab Spring.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Boges

[Guest]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/23/mohammed-morsi-dubbed-egypts-new-pharaoh/

Not a happy place at the moment.

[Argus]

Not a surprise. Democracy is not something Islamists support once they use it to get into power. Someone commented that Morsy had just declared himself Pharaoh. His word will be law. His declarations cannot be overturned or even challenged by any body or court.

[Hudson Jones]

I don't know enough about the politics and I still have more to learn, but from a discussion I heard at Council of Foreign Relations, someone made a comment about how there are people from the Mubarak regime who still have quite a bit of power in the military and in the judiciary. Morsi's move prevents them from getting in the way of the transition and a constitution from being drafted.

The Muslim Brotherhood is actually not known as a hardline religious group. Many of the members are pro-democracy.

While drafting the constitution, Morsi was also able to compromise with the elected religious members. Originally, they wanted the principles of Islamic Law to be the main source of Egyptian legislation, however, the compromise was to leave the final authority to apply those principles with the elected Parliament and civil courts. The Salafists, the ultraconservatives religious group hold 1/4 of the seats and they are the main group who have been pushing for the adoption of Islamic Law. Morsi has tried resisting their push.

As mentioned in the article:

Morsy also ordered retrials and reinvestigations in the deaths of protesters during last year's uprising against strongman Hosni Mubarak. That could lead to the reprosecution of Mubarak, currently serving a life prison term, and several acquitted officials who served under him.

Those who were acquitted, were acquitted because the judiciary is still tainted with the old regime. This is something that Morsi has been working to fix. Morsi has made some significant moves in order to remove powerful military generals who ran Mubarak's dictatorship.

So far, I see Morsi doing a good balancing job considering that he has to deal with the still powerful members of the old regime, the hardline Muslim members, the Palestinian/Israeli issue and keeping the Americans happy, so that the aid money continues to be delivered to his country.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Hudson Jones

[DogOnPorch]

The Muslim Brotherhood is actually not known as a hardline religious group. Many of the members are pro-democracy.

[Hudson Jones]

?

How can I turn you off? You're like an annoying infomercial that never ends.

[DogOnPorch]

If you'd bother to read this article from the post-war 40s, you'll see that the Muslim Brotherhood has not been a moderate pro-democracy group...ever.

[Hudson Jones]

Got it: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?app=core&module=usercp&tab=core&area=ignoredusers

[jbg]

Not a surprise. Democracy is not something Islamists support once they use it to get into power. Someone commented that Morsy had just declared himself Pharaoh. His word will be law. His declarations cannot be overturned or even challenged by any body or court.

I thought Morsi was a disciple of and admirer of Jefferson, Washington, McDonald and Churchill.

[BubberMiley]

I thought Morsi was a disciple of and admirer of Jefferson, Washington, McDonald and Churchill.

Ronald McDonald?

[DogOnPorch]

I thought Morsi was a disciple of and admirer of Jefferson, Washington, McDonald and Churchill.

He is if you ask Mr Hudson. The Muslim Brotherhood are moderate...pro-democracy....well, some of them apparently are. No matter that they have quite a history of being anything but that. Including the recruitment of Third Reich escapees looking for continued work.

Edited November 24, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

Ronald McDonald?

Love your icon.

[dre]

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

So you want Mubarak out, you protest, he leaves, you get an election, you elect The Muslim Brotherhood and you act surprised when they try to seize absolute power?

This was the least surprising result of the Arab Spring.

THis is whats known as blowback.

Westerners are know almost nothing about these societies and when they promote regime change they have no idea if the new regime will be better or worse.

[dre]

I thought Morsi was a disciple of and admirer of Jefferson, Washington, McDonald and Churchill.

Typical post for you.

[Argus]

I don't know enough about the politics and I still have more to learn, but from a discussion I heard at Council of Foreign Relations, someone made a comment about how there are people from the Mubarak regime who still have quite a bit of power in the military and in the judiciary. Morsi's move prevents them from getting in the way of the transition and a constitution from being drafted.

Morsi was able to fire top generals with apparent ease. You mean he can't fire a bureaucrat without an edict which says no one can challenge his decrees? There have been a number of legal challenges to the composition of the people drafting the constitutions. As someone said, democracy is messy and involves a lot of back and forth. Morsi apparently has no patience for such messiness. This is not atypical for Arabs, and particularly Islamists. Compromise seems to be a foreign concept over there.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Of course this is worrying. But, Egypt wants democracy and if the Muslim Brotherhood wants to be anti-democratic it will make an excellent lesson for the other democracies in the region.

[Hudson Jones]

Morsi was able to fire top generals with apparent ease. You mean he can't fire a bureaucrat without an edict which says no one can challenge his decrees? There have been a number of legal challenges to the composition of the people drafting the constitutions. As someone said, democracy is messy and involves a lot of back and forth. Morsi apparently has no patience for such messiness. This is not atypical for Arabs, and particularly Islamists. Compromise seems to be a foreign concept over there.

Even though it's a relatively short paragraph, you managed to make a lot of misinformed comments.

If you care to learn a little more about Morsi and the political dynamics involved in Egypt, I would recommend reading this article.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Hudson Jones

[jbg]

Even though it's a relatively short paragraph, you managed to make a lot of misinformed comments.

If you care to learn a little more about Morsi and the political dynamics involved in Egypt, I would recommend reading this article.

That article was written just before the recent power grab. Why an Arab Spring if it was just to replace one dictator with another?

[Peter F]

yah, whats the use of all this civil insurrection stuff. Cannot these arabs learn from the american example?

[jbg]

yah, whats the use of all this civil insurrection stuff. Cannot these arabs learn from the american example?

Perhaps excerpts from the Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again" (link) say it best:

We'll be fighting in the streets

With our children at our feet

And the morals that they worship will be gone

And the men who spurred us on

Sit in judgment of all wrong

They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution

Take a bow for the new revolution

Smile and grin at the change all around me

CHORUS: Pick up my guitar and play

Just like yesterday

And I'll get on my knees and pray

We don't get fooled again

Don't get fooled again

Change it had to come

We knew it all along

We were liberated from the fall that's all

But the world looks just the same

And history ain't changed

'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution

Take a bow for the new revolution

Smile and grin at the change all around me

CHORUS

No, no!

********************

There's nothing in the street

Looks any different to me

And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye

And the parting on the left

Is now the parting on the right

And the beards have all grown longer overnight

************************************************

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss

Same as the old boss

Morsi, ain't you the same as the "old boss"? I don't expect an answer.

[Guest Peeves]

I for one never thought any uprising in any Muslim country (other than the minor kerfufle in Iran) was about democracy. They are unlikely to get what we consider democracy. What they wanted was a say in government and human rights.

looks like that's becoming unlikely. Still, the uprisings aren't over yet, nor the blood shed.

[Guest Peeves]

yah, whats the use of all this civil insurrection stuff. Cannot these arabs learn from the american example?

What ever that's supposed to mean.

[Michael Hardner]

. What they wanted was a say in government and human rights.

looks like that's becoming unlikely.

What is the difference between 'say in government' and 'democracy' ?

[jbg]

What is the difference between 'say in government' and 'democracy' ?

There is a huge difference between being able to express an opinion without fearing either imprisonment or violence (say in government) and having government regularly chosen and replaced by the people (democracy).

[Michael Hardner]

There is a huge difference between being able to express an opinion without fearing either imprisonment or violence (say in government) and having government regularly chosen and replaced by the people (democracy).

I can see that, but Peeves made the point. If they want to be able to protest and toss out corrupt governments, why wouldn't they want the power to vote them out ?