bush_cheney2004 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Gee, I think I will send AIPAC another $100 after all of this complaining. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Gee, I think I will send AIPAC another $100 after all of this complaining. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 Israel gets about 3 billion a year in jet fuel parts and weapons for its fleet of US aircraft. Okay, so I think you are finally agreeing that Israel receives $3 billion a year in welfare cheques from the U.S. because it cannot pay for it. I understand you don't like it, but this is the sort of things allies do. Also, if you look-up a thing called Lend-Lease, you'll see that America has been very generous to ALL its friends over the decades. Not just Israel. Does Canada give money to Israel? What about Israel? When is the last time Israel gave money to its allies? Does U.S. give money to Canada? The reasons U.S. has been giving money to the countries around Israel is because they want them to follow the status quo in regards to Israel's occupation of Palestinians. If Israel could afford doing this itself, they would do it, but they prefer handouts from the U.S. I sometimes wonder how many U.S. people actually know about these handouts which only benefit Israel, while their social programs are being cut and their debt continues to climb. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
GostHacked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 I can, like yourself, complain all I wish. Then we are both hypocrites. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Then we are both hypocrites. Speak for yourself. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest American Woman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 They see suicide attacks as a weapons just like you see jets, helicopters and tanks as weapons. No different. So is that you saying "no different?" Or you defending what "they see?" Because it sounds an awful lot like you are defending suicide attacks to me. Suicide attacks that are aimed at purposely killing civilians. Like that child in the image you posted. Israel has killed Palestinian civilians. Many more Palestinian civilians than Hamas or any other Palestinian group has killed Israeli civilians. When a boy is shot in the stomach by an Israeli gun, then a person is dead. No amount of talk can justify the killing. Who has ever "justified" that? It is what it is - which is unavoidable at times - just as civilian deaths were in other wars. It's not deliberate, and it's always regretted - and when Hamas stores its rockets among civilians, the likelihood of civilian death becomes that much greater. Where is your outrage over that? The rockets are usually fired as a response to Israel's actions. The same pattern is evident in the latest escalation. "Usually?" I'd ask for evidence, but for now I'll take your admission that it's not "always," as I'm still waiting for evidence of the "carpet bombing you referred to - because I don't see that in any of the 'examples' that you followed with. I will comment on your first example, though, as I think it's typical of what happens: THURSDAY, 8 NOVEMBERFollowing a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a twelve year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer. Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier. A "lull?" How long was this "lull?" And what preceded it? But evidently the 12 year old continued to play soccer in the same area that "Israeli soldier invaded." Where there were also "Palestinian fighters." Yes, his death is sad, but Israel certainly did not set out with the intention of killing him. Why wasn't he somewhere safe? Israel is not surrounded by a military. Israel is surrounded by Arab, Islamic nations - who refuse to recognize the Jewish state. Israel is dealing with Hamas, who refuses to accept Israel and has said that Jewish children worldwide are a legitimate target. How does that amount to "defense," as you say? Furthermore, Hamas has been sending rockets into Israeli cities at an increasing rate: Hamas has fired about 800 rockets into civilian targets in Israeli cities (not settlements), since the beginning of 2012, and lately has hastened the pace, for no apparent reason at all. http://www.huffingto..._b_2135723.html I think by now we can both agree that it wasn't because of "carpet bombing," right? You're not still holding on to that claim, are you? Its waters are not controlled by a foreign force. There is freedom of movement in and out of Israel. There is no blockade by a foreign power on what goes in and out of Israel. There isn't assassinations or attempts at assassination of its government on a regular basis.Think about that the next time you try to question a people who try to defend their rights. Oh, I think about a lot - I just don't see targeting Israeli civilians, or Jewish children worldwide, as a necessary "defense" of .... anything. I also see rockets flying into Israel as a legitimate reason for Israel to fight back. I also see the loss of innocent Israeli lives as just as horrific as loss of innocent Palestinians, and if Hamas had more value for Palestinian lives, there would likely be a lot less deaths. I've already quoted the statements coming out of the U.S., Canada, and the U.K. - and now I will add Hague's condemnation of the rocket attacks, which you keep defending (emphasis mine): "Hamas bears principal responsibility for the current crisis. I utterly condemn rocket attacks from Gaza into southern Israel by Hamas and other armed groups." http://icscotland.ic...-name_page.html Yet you keep putting the blame on Israel. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 I sometimes wonder how many U.S. people actually know about these handouts which only benefit Israel,.... That's your opinion. I'm an American, and it's not mine. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Does U.S. give money to Canada? Yes, but not directly. Canada benefits from a myriad of bilateral agreements, infrastructure, and military aid that is not equally reciprocated. Canada is probably the largest recipient of U.S. "aid" in the world. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 That's your opinion. I'm an American, and it's not mine. Right....U.S. provides about $15 billion in humanitarian, military, and economic aid each year, apart from wars and expeditions. Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine have all benefitted from U.S. foreign aid. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Right....U.S. provides about $15 billion in humanitarian, military, and economic aid each year, apart from wars and expeditions. Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine have all benefitted from U.S. foreign aid. Yep. A sampling of what was requested of Congress in 2011: ....most countries outside of Western Europe, Canada and Australia get foreign aid from the U.S. This year the requested amount for Russia was $68.7 million. For China, it’s $12.9 million. A whopping $647.7 million has been allocated for Nigeria. Even $20 million is set aside for communist Cuba. The $1.5 billion requested for Egypt in the president’s fiscal year 2011 budget puts the country fourth on the list of recipients for aid managed by the State Department and the United States Agency for International Development. Only Afghanistan ($3.9 billion), Pakistan ($3.1 billion) and Israel ($3 billion) have more aid requested for them. http://www.forbes.com/sites/brianwingfield/2011/01/29/making-sense-of-u-s-foreign-aid-to-egypt-and-elsewhere/ Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) We need to stop supporting Israel's aggression and start supporting justice and human rights. I strongly disagree. I believe we need to stay out of the babbling going on the in Middle East. Both Israel and Palestine are at fault here - BOTH of them are uncompromising to reach a permanent peace agreement. BOTH of them are not making any efforts to establish peace despite international efforts. Edited November 15, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Peace is way overrated anyway.....when Canada or the USA want to settle disputes in other countries, they invade and/or bomb them. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 cartoon Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Ground troops ready to go in? Edited November 15, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 You won't see that in Canada or the US as they don't situate their fighting forces amongst children in hopes that the enemy will waste a few just in time for the evening news. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Speak for yourself. I always do. And some people just don't like it, but that is just the way it is. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 I always do. And some people just don't like it, but that is just the way it is. I have no problem with your self proclaimed hypocrisy. Carry-on, in fact. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 I have no problem with your self proclaimed hypocrisy. Carry-on, in fact. Awww Mufti. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Posted November 16, 2012 More on a possible repeat of 2008: Israel’s breaking of the ceasefire is reminiscent of what happened in 2008, when Israel launched a cross-border raid on Hamas fighters in Gaza, prompting a barrage of rocket fire onto southern Israel. This provided the Israeli military with a reason to launch a large-scale ground operation into the Gaza Strip; known as ‘Operation Cast Lead’, the three-week Israeli military offensive left more than 1,400 Palestinians dead, including at least 300 children. The Israeli operation was widely condemned. But Israel’s ability to launch attacks freely onto the Gaza Strip may differ from four years ago, largely due to the recent uprisings throughout the Middle East and the altered political situation in the region. On Wednesday night Egypt – which is now led by President Mohammad Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood – recalled its ambassador to Israel over the air strikes. The timing of violence between Israel and Gaza has also raised questions about political motives, as Israeli politicians are in the midst of an election campaign. “It is an objective fact that it is serving the purposes of (Israeli PM) Netanyahu very well: to turn away the attention and make the public agenda focused on military issues, and not on social issues,” Adam Keller, an Israeli activist and spokesperson of Gush Shalom, an Israeli peace movement, told IPS. Link Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
DogOnPorch Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 From Jan. 31st 1947...quite interesting. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Derek L Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 Israel should get jiggy with it.....draw in Iran to take care of another pressing issue. Obama is going to find out what he just signed up for. in a second term. I agree…..Israel is damned if they do, damned if they don’t………If many think Israel is “committing genocide” now, perhaps they should make like Samson and bring the roof down……Then the “crime” would fit the presumptive charge. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 Humorous, but inaccurate. Yeah. Quote
Sleipnir Posted November 16, 2012 Report Posted November 16, 2012 Anonymous threatening Israel http://anonnews.org/press/item/1885/ Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
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