NDP , Harper's safety not worth the price to send over amoured car

[g_bambino]

The Governor General/Queen has a Lincoln Town Car BPS.............

Yes, they do. I'm not certain if they're bullet/bomb-proofed or not. However, I can't think of a single time the governor general has taken his/her car(s) along on a state or working visit to another country. The Queen has perhaps taken one of her British state limousines abroad, but very rarely, if ever; especially since the Britannia (which had an on board garage) was decommissioned. (Now, there was a way to show off overseas!)

[ed.: +]

Edited November 7, 2012 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

It was based on an RCMP security assessment and they will never make those public. It might well be that they had bad experiences with cars the Indians provided on previous occasions. For example, maybe they found they were all bugged. They would not say that for diplomatic reasons. Maybe the cars were rust buckets and poorly maintained. Again, they would not say that for diplomatic reasons. Maybe the Canadian cars have special additional security features not present on the Indian cars. They still wouldn't tell us that. So you're never going to know.

No. But one has to wonder why India's state cars suffice for other visiting dignitaries, including heads of state and government.

[scribblet]

Of course they are, who said they aren't?

Many obviously, at least not security as deemed by RCMP and CSIS, 'they 'know better than the professionals I suppose.

[PIK]

It was based on an RCMP security assessment and they will never make those public. It might well be that they had bad experiences with cars the Indians provided on previous occasions. For example, maybe they found they were all bugged. They would not say that for diplomatic reasons. Maybe the cars were rust buckets and poorly maintained. Again, they would not say that for diplomatic reasons. Maybe the Canadian cars have special additional security features not present on the Indian cars. They still wouldn't tell us that. So you're never going to know.

That is what I had mentioned earlier, what is being said in the car could be very valuable to certain goverment/ businessman over there. But one thing is for sure this threrad really showed how petty the left has become. If this is all they have to go after harper on ,then that tells me harper is doing a excellent job and that scares the hell out of them, the libs might be thinking god's son might not even be enough now to allow them to get back into power. Edited November 7, 2012 by PIK

[g_bambino]

Many obviously, at least not security as deemed by RCMP and CSIS, 'they 'know better than the professionals I suppose.

I don't know about this. Perhaps the RCMP said that, for some reason, two armoured vehicles needed to be brought over from Canada. Then again, the RCMP may set out their recommendations, but that doesn't necessarily stop the PMO from taking "security measures" further; or, inflating the entourage and increasing the amount of equipment for visual effect and then publicly claiming it was all for "security measures".

[cybercoma]

A lot of assumptions on both sides. Assumptions about "bugged vehicles" and "tamil tigers" on one side, and assumptions that the PMO inflated the security recommendations by the RCMP on the other.

Stephen Harper shows time and again that he has an overinflated sense of self-importance: changing all the pictures in their wing of Parliament to photos of himself, personalizing the 2011 party platform by calling it "Stephen Harper's Low-Tax Plan for Jobs and Economic Growth," telling farmers that HE is offering them a royal pardon, contempt of parliament, gagging his MPs, and on and on. It all sounds too much like Jean Chrétien's arrogance with a strange jingoistic twist of valorizing military pursuits. Dear Leader indeed. It wouldn't be the least bit surprising if the PMO was trying to give off the appearance of Harper being far more important than he actually is in our system.

And this all goes back to something that I said years ago. It's part of a process to associate Stephen Harper with the nation of Canada itself. When Stephen Harper becomes a symbol of Canada, any criticism of Stephen Harper and his policies becomes unpatriotic, undemocratic, and, well, anti-Canadian. This is a symptom of totalitarianism. When you take into consideration the suppression of communications (ie, not meeting with the press, not allowing government scientists to present their findings at conferences and to the media, not allowing MPs to speak unless it's vetted by the PMO, handing MPs the exact same talking points for question period) and the suppression of dissent (ie, closing scientific centres that may contradict Conservative ideology, eliminating funding for NGOs that may contradict Conservative ideology), the symptoms of totalitarianism continue to mount. Jeffrey Simpson said Jean Chrétien was a "friendly dictator" and conservatives in Canada rightly criticized his rule. Well, it's not any better with Harper and I would argue it's worse, but Canadians chose this government. So, we get the kind of leadership that we vote for.

[scribblet]

Right, it is all supposition as we know only that the RCMP and CISIS deemed it necessary. Nothing to do with how you or others like to characterize Harper, in fact as said before, it's nothing but petty and shallow complaining about nothing to score political points.

Yup, we got a great leadership and a great country.

[Smallc]

I have no problem with this if it was actually determined necessary. Harper is a human being, and he is a target. I see no problem protecting him.

[cybercoma]

I have no problem with this if it was actually determined necessary. Harper is a human being, and he is a target. I see no problem protecting him.

Complaining about too much security for the Prime Minister is stupid. It's only relevant in the context of conservative ideology calling for austerity for everyone else but themselves. Regardless, security for the PM is not something you skimp on.

[wyly]

an Indian version of events was they offered armored Mercedes for all of Harpers excursions, a PM spokesman denied this ...someone's not telling the truth...

[WWWTT]

Stephen Harper shows time and again that he has an overinflated sense of self-importance: changing all the pictures in their wing of Parliament to photos of himself, personalizing the 2011 party platform by calling it "Stephen Harper's Low-Tax Plan for Jobs and Economic Growth," telling farmers that HE is offering them a royal pardon, contempt of parliament, gagging his MPs, and on and on. It all sounds too much like Jean Chrétien's arrogance with a strange jingoistic twist of valorizing military pursuits. Dear Leader indeed. It wouldn't be the least bit surprising if the PMO was trying to give off the appearance of Harper being far more important than he actually is in our system.

And this all goes back to something that I said years ago. It's part of a process to associate Stephen Harper with the nation of Canada itself. When Stephen Harper becomes a symbol of Canada, any criticism of Stephen Harper and his policies becomes unpatriotic, undemocratic, and, well, anti-Canadian. This is a symptom of totalitarianism.

Good comment and rant.

Canadians won't realize how impotent Harper really is until after he is voted out and all the grand standing comes crashing down.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Complaining about too much security for the Prime Minister is stupid. It's only relevant in the context of conservative ideology calling for austerity for everyone else but themselves. Regardless, security for the PM is not something you skimp on.

Was it stupid then for Manning to do it to Cretien back in the 90's?

WWWTT

[Big Guy]

I agree that everything possible should be done to protect the Prime Minister of Canada when he/she is traveling abroad. The RCMP has been assigned that task and has apparently done it well – Harper is still with us. I believe that the OFFICE is one that should be respected and protected. I also believe that the current Prime Minister has mistakenly tried (consciously or not) to raise the level of importance of his personal position to that of American Presidential status.

The Canadian people did not vote for Stephen Harper for Prime Minister - his caucus elected him. If/when a president of the United States is incapacitated permanently then a series of complicated steps have to be taken since the PERSON elected by the people has to be replaced and some preference given to the policies and views for which the people voted. In the USA the Vice-President (who was also voted in by the people) takes over maintaining continuity.

In Canada the Prime Minister is just that – the prime minister as judged by others in his party – nothing more. Our constitution mandates that he/she can be replaced very easily and very quickly. The irony in our current situation is that there is no guarantee that the replacement for Stephen Harper would continue his personal policies since the current PMO has been so controlling and personality based. It is generally assumed that the appointed Deputy Minister would be eventually elected by caucus as Prime Minister. That would make things interesting for us to-day;

“Current Prime Minister Stephen Harper has not formally designated a deputy prime minister, although he has given special status in the line of authority to members of his cabinet, similar to that which would be accorded to a deputy prime minister. Under an order-in-council issued by Governor General Michaëlle Jean on February 6, 2006 - the day Harper was appointed prime minister - when "the prime minister is unable to perform the functions of his office" Lawrence Cannon, then Jim Prentice, then the balance of the cabinet by order of precedence, "is authorized to act for the prime minister." Previous prime ministers have had similar orders-in-council, under which the deputy prime minister, and then the balance of the cabinet in order of precedence, have been authorized to act for the prime minister.

In the 41st Canadian Parliament, neither Cannon nor Prentice is still sitting as a Member of Parliament; the current order-in-council names Marjory LeBreton, the current Leader of the Government in the Senate, as the first person authorized to act for the prime minister.”

Does this mean that at this time Marjory LeBreton is one heartbeat away from becoming Prime Minister? That would certainly make for interesting changes in Ottawa!

[ontariosouth]

Pretty minor league of the NDP, theres is real threats to security in Pakistan. Harper is out there trying to sell Canada and create jobs for Canadians. He s out there working for us.

[PIK]

I noticed that bob rae was complaining, is that the same one that took the OPP hele to his cottage and had OPP crusier on standby to pick him up?

[PIK]

Complaining about too much security for the Prime Minister is stupid. It's only relevant in the context of conservative ideology calling for austerity for everyone else but themselves. Regardless, security for the PM is not something you skimp on.

As in the millions harper is giving up on in his pension. Harper is doing things no other PM had the balls to do, We are lucky he is in charge during these tough times. If amoured limo's is all the left has to go on, then they have nothing else I guess. If the left leadership was smart they would quit this pettiness and start acting like the deserve to be voted for. But then when you don't have anything to run on,I guess pettiness is all that is left.

[Sleipnir]

Harper is out there trying to sell Canada.

Yeah selling Canada out is more like it.

[Merlin]

India is a dangerous place. Many of India's PM's have been assassinated or had attempts on their lives over the years. Plus the large bombing in Mumbai and Delhi last year as well should cause concern to any leader considering a visit. To simply ignore the very real danger would appear to be irresponsible of the RCMP, who are in charge of the PM's security in this country and abroad. If PM Harper was killed or even injured in India the amount of inquest and questioning of the RCMP would never cease. I think that they are choosing the lesser of two evils here.

Here is a list of some of the major terrorist attacks in India over the last couple of decades. You'll notice that the events seem to be increasing in frequency since 2000.

[cybercoma]

Was it stupid then for Manning to do it to Cretien back in the 90's?

WWWTT

Yes.

[PIK]

Yeah selling Canada out is more like it.

The tell us how??? You must be NDP, no idea on how to create jobs or create more business.. You just can't survive off taxing people to death. Edited November 8, 2012 by PIK

[wyly]

Pretty minor league of the NDP, theres is real threats to security in Pakistan.

Pakistan? mmm...how does that work when he is in India...

[wyly]

India is a dangerous place. Many of India's PM's have been assassinated or had attempts on their lives over the years. Plus the large bombing in Mumbai and Delhi last year as well should cause concern to any leader considering a visit. To simply ignore the very real danger would appear to be irresponsible of the RCMP, who are in charge of the PM's security in this country and abroad. If PM Harper was killed or even injured in India the amount of inquest and questioning of the RCMP would never cease. I think that they are choosing the lesser of two evils here.

Hereis a list of some of the major terrorist attacks in India over the last couple of decades. You'll notice that the events seem to be increasing in frequency since 2000.

...missing the point entirely aren't you....why are we paying to ship cars to India when the Indian government has cars for such occasions...

But an Indian bureaucrat with the Ministry of External Affairs told The Canadian Press on condition of anonymity that Harper had been offered an armoured Mercedes for his entire visit -- with the exception of a stop in Bangalore where it was the state government taking care of his car.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Indian+government+says+Harper+offered+toprate+security+vehicle/7502572/story.html#ixzz2Bgw1mE1Q

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Indian+government+says+Harper+offered+toprate+security+vehicle/7502572/story.html

[cybercoma]

Why exactly are we questioning the security expertise of the RCMP? If we were in America, would we be questioning the decisions of the Secret Service?

The NDP are soon going to find themselves lost in the desert if they keep on the trajectory they are headed. They need to stop nitpicking on all of these pet issues and start making broader criticisms of the federal government that highlight a plan or vision for the future that the NDP has. They're not showing themselves as a viable alternative to the CPC right now. Instead of situating their criticisms within a broader framework of their overall vision for Canada's future, they're merely picking on particular incidents. It's great that they want to take the fight to the CPC, but to just fight without offering themselves as an undeniable alternative is a fool's errand.

Edited November 9, 2012 by cybercoma

[wyly]

Why exactly are we questioning the security expertise of the RCMP? If we were in America, would we be questioning the decisions of the Secret Service?

this is the oppositions job, question everything, doubt everything, scrutinize everything...this is what should be done at all times and even more so when we have a government that like no other before seeks to control/limit every source of information...

question the RCMP...well ya, they have proven very capable of lying in the past to cover their misdeeds, they don't get a free pass...

[cybercoma]

It's not their job to question everything. It's their job to hold the government accountable. Presumably Mulcair wants to Prime Minister. I'm not sure he should be going around criticizing the PM's security for being too tight. If they have evidence that the RCMP's decision was inappropriate, they should have brought that forward. Instead they're just complaining about spending too much money on security. Probably not the best use of their time.