Should Netflix be subject to CRTC regulation?

[cybercoma]

Saves me time and money how ? I can search Google as easily as I can search Amazon.

As a producer it saves you time to distribute your products through those aggregates. It's also more effective to have your product in the places people go for those products. I know this sounds obvious, but you're suggesting that the producers replicate what's already out there.

[cybercoma]

Pay per view on the web ? Ummm... no. If I want to buy a DVD, though, I Google the title. I may find it on Amazon, but also on eBay or on the artists website.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is unusual. If someone wants a book, they'll typically search a particular website for it (ie, amazon or indigo). I don't think they would search Google for the title because you're not going to get retailers specifically. You'll get blogs about the book, the author's website, literary critics, and more. If someone's looking to buy something, they'll typically go to a vendor site.

[Wild Bill]

Not true. They can subsidize and promote Canadian culture in a positive way while still giving people choice.

Is that true, when they have consistently blocked Canadians from many International services over the years? For years we had the issue of "pirate" TV satellite dishes. Not only was it illegal to have a dish that pirated American signals for free, it was illegal for a Canadian address to subcribe and PAY for an American satellite service!

Even now, there are many American and British TV online services which supply programming, usually reruns of current shows and a big library of classic tv series. Whenever I try to access or register with such a service, I get a message saying words to the effect of "Sorry! No Canadians!"

Sure seems like they have been blocking and limiting my choices to me, Michael! Especially when there is no equivalent Canadian source for me to choose. If I miss an episode of NCIS, it is freely available at a network website in the USA. Here in Canada, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. Global did not archive any episodes all summer.

American Scifi channels have a great online library. I am blocked because I am Canadian. The scifi channel here has no such library.

In effect, the CRTC blocks American competition, even when there is no Canadian supplier of the equivalent service.

This is why I gave up on satellite and cable TV. I have been using an antenna for over a year. For the first time since I was a kid, I can see those great SuperBowl commercials!

[DogOnPorch]

The CRTC should have been flushed out to sea years ago.

[Michael Hardner]

It seems to me we're discussing how the CRTC can continue to operate under the new technologies that allow users to get content. My response has been in response to the question "how" could they do this, technologically and strategically.

Is that true, when they have consistently blocked Canadians from many International services over the years? For years we had the issue of "pirate" TV satellite dishes. Not only was it illegal to have a dish that pirated American signals for free, it was illegal for a Canadian address to subcribe and PAY for an American satellite service!

I said they *can* address this positively, not that they *will*. Again - *how* should they do this ? IMO - positive promotion of Cancon.

Clearly, if the CRTC has an option to achieve their goals by blocking/preventing then they will do that too. The question we were discussing, I think, is more about what are the limits there.

Even now, there are many American and British TV online services which supply programming, usually reruns of current shows and a big library of classic tv series. Whenever I try to access or register with such a service, I get a message saying words to the effect of "Sorry! No Canadians!"

Right. That was already explained on this thread and it has nothing to do with the CRTC.

[cybercoma]

I'm not sure that the CRTC, as a regulatory body, ought to be in the business of promotion. Promoting material is the responsibility of the producers of content. I understand people's frustrations with the Canadian media websites not providing similar access to material as the US versions do; it's a point of frustration that I have as well. However, this isn't the fault of the CRTC. This is the fault of the corporations that have built these websites and deliver the content. American media corporations, like CBS for instance, do not have distribution rights to their content in Canada. Global or CTV may have the rights to that content in our country, which is why we are not allowed to access the media through CBS's website. The problem is the lackadaisical nature of Canadian media corps that rest on their laurels. They're not afraid of the Canadian public because we don't voice our grievances with enough conviction that they worry about it. There's no more competition for content in the US. A show that's on CBS is not also aired on another network, giving people the choice between two providers. It airs on CBS and it's put on their website. They just provide a much better product, probably because they have a lot more money.

[GostHacked]

I'd be ok with it if the CRTC Cancon rules actually play good Cancon material. But that is also a part of corporate radio/tv.

If I understand this correctly Michael, the control of the CRTC and the idea of government as a defender of local culture really means making sure the people CAN"T watch, read or listen to what they WANT!

Instead, the government limits their choices to what it says the people SHOULD want!

No wonder there have always been conflicts. No wonder there has always been tv piracy.

Also the desire to avoid the non stop bombardment of advertising. You have ads BEFORE the ads now, scrolling across the bottom of EVERY channel, distracting me from the current show they want the adverstising to pay for. One reason I ditched the cable TV. I'll watch what I want to watch, when I want to watch it... the net provides me that ability.

But the traffic can be denied. Usually a website using a media plugin to the browser will use another TCP/IP port. Also you can end up blocking IPs that are known proxy/vpn sites. And through DNS you can severly restrict what content you can view. This is happening on a country level. For example if you are looking at HULU.com, it will deny you streaming based on your IP being from Canada. But you can VPN and proxy to the site to make it look like you are from the USA, but your streaming will be degraded due to the extra steps the data needs to go through to get to the destination.

[August1991]

That is not what I said. I said, the state cannot stop cannot stop a Canadian from purchasing a service over the Internet from a US supplier. This is a statement of technical facts of life. This means CRTC can't regulate these services even if they wanted to.

In fact, what does can-con mean for an on-demand service? It is not like Netflix can force people to want Canadian content.

IOW, according to you, the State cannot regulate language/culture. So, why do we have official language provisions in our Constitution?

[imagine!]

If people in Canada want to speak Chinese, should they be free to do so? But should the State also only speak Chinese? Or should the State insist on specific languages as State or Official languages.

Indeed, according to you TimG, the Canadian State may one day in the future issue tax statements solely in Chinese (or Arabic) and Canadian citizens will have to hire translators. TimG, would you agree with such a Canadian future?

Edited October 11, 2012 by August1991

[TimG]

IOW, according to you, the State cannot regulate language/culture. So, why do we have official language provisions in our Constitution?

Again that is not what I said. The state can try to regulate anything it wants but technological change has rendered such rules useless. I don't see why you keep responding with strawmen.

[August1991]

Again that is not what I said. The state can try to regulate anything it wants but technological change has rendered such rules useless. I don't see why you keep responding with strawmen.

So if in the future, the majority sends you a tax bill solely in Chinese, or if Friday becomes a holiday, TimG, that's OK.

[TimG]

So if in the future, the majority sends you a tax bill solely in Chinese, or if Friday becomes a holiday, TimG, that's OK.

Let's put it this way: if the majority in society actually shifted so much to make those things remotely plausible then it would be fine with me. However, they are absurd examples that missed the point again: the Canadian government cannot stop people from buying services over the Internet. This Netflix immune to any regulation imposed by the CRTC.

[August1991]

Let's put it this way: if the majority in society actually shifted so much to make those things remotely plausible then it would be fine with me.

Well, they would not be fine with me.

Some of us are left-handed.

Why would the government want to stop a willing seller and buyer from making a deal?

When the government (majority) forbids you buying pork, speaking French or kneeling to Mecca.

-----

The measure of a civilised society is how the majority treats the minority.

Edited November 3, 2012 by August1991

[eyeball]

When the government (majority) forbids you buying pork, speaking French or kneeling to Mecca.

Where on Earth did this non sequitur come from? What does it have to do with why governments stop willing sellers and buyers from making a deal? You apparently edited gutted the gist of whatever you tried to say out of your post.

Is it safe to assume whatever the cause it's the result of some of us being left-handed?

Edited October 30, 2012 by eyeball

[August1991]

Where on Earth did this non sequitur come from? What does it have to do with why governments stop willing sellers and buyers from making a deal? You apparently edited gutted the gist of whatever you tried to say out of your post.

Is it safe to assume whatever the cause it's the result of some of us being left-handed?

It's not a non sequitur at all.

IMV, a civilized society does not decide individual rights by majority vote. Maybe, I can express myself better: the ultimate measure of the civilization of a society is how the majority treats the minority.

Europe once knew such cities, and countries. Maybe it will again.

[eyeball]

Nope, I'm afraid that didn't help a bit...I don't think we're on the same page or even in the same book to be honest.

[cybercoma]

I was flipping through Netflix last night and I have to wonder, is Netflix not already subject to CRTC regulations. The movies that are available differ by country and there's quite a bit of Canadian content on there (Kenny vs Spenny, Trailer Park Boys, Kids in the Hall, etc). I'm kind of glad that it's not just the American site that they feed through to Canada. It's nice to have that Canadian content on there to choose from. It's probably much easier for Netflix not to have to do that and just have a single site for everywhere, but Canadian Content rules make sure that there is Canadian programming to choose from.

Edited November 3, 2012 by cybercoma

[eyeball]

I still haven't succeeded in finding a place or way to legally watch the movie; 2010 The Year We Make Contact, online. I tried the VPN route and I even offered to pay. Nada. So...I guess I'm off to explore the underworld. A friend of mine has invited me into the inner circle of Torrentday.

I doubt this silly state of dysfunction in the market has anywhere near as much to do with culture as it does with some stinking rich bastard somewhere trying to maintain their entitlements, which is what I think is really going on. I'm betting the interference in the ability of ordinary Canadians to openly and honestly engage in free trade in the market/economy is due to a cabal of telecom and internet providers, lobbyists and regulators trying to fix that market so they can screw us. It's how Ottawa has always rolled. I've seen this sort of thing before.

I never had any friends in DFO invite me into their inner circle though. That said, they're just a little too exclusive and corrupt for my liking, I just wouldn't fit in and the ghosts of the fish I've killed who haunt me now would never let me live it down.

[TimG]

I still haven't succeeded in finding a place or way to legally watch the movie; 2010 The Year We Make Contact, online.

http://www.vudu.com/...We-Make-Contact 2.99 per view. need a US credit card (you can pick them up at Safeway). Edited November 3, 2012 by TimG

[eyeball]

I've been down this route before and got stopped when I tried to close the deal. Trying to trick vudu into believing I'm not a Canadian doesn't sound any less legal than using Torrentday.

Edited November 3, 2012 by eyeball

[eyeball]

I've heard these purchasable credit cards are dodgy things too.

So where are we now...2.99 for the flick, plus the cost of an anonymous credit card and a phony address...what about GST/HST? Am I supposed to just mail that in on my own?

At what point do the producers take any responsibility for the hoops and loops and ethically questionable contortions consumers have to go through to see their produce?

Less face it. The market and economy is an amoral jungle and rules are obviously for suckers.

[TimG]

I've been down this route before and got stopped when I tried to close the deal. Trying to trick vudu into believing I'm not a Canadian doesn't sound any less legal than using Torrentday.

The difference is the content owner is getting paid if you use card with a fake address since you are only bypassing the annoying geographical restrictions. Also, torrents are a PIA. The UI is clunky, requires a lot of fiddling and sometimes you need to install special software to see the movies. Now that I have access to the content I want legally I can't be bothered to go through the hassles needed to acquire them illegally. Edited November 3, 2012 by TimG

[eyeball]

6 of one half a dozen of the other I guess, but deeper down I know that's just not true. I don't mind paying but my bottom line doesn't exist in a vacuum. I expect to pay world wide prices on the world wide web, and I know damn well as a Canadian I'm being gouged simply because I'm a Canadian and I'm quite certain I'm going to be gouged even deeper once the telecoms and Ottawa figure out their end run around free markets and global realities.

I can't figure out why content owners would stand for their customers being treated this way. If they don't give a damn about us why should we give a damn about them?

[Bryan]

I'll give the content providers one chance to take my money. If I'm refused simply due to my location, I've got no compunction about finding "other" venues to watch.

The funny part about Netflix is, lately in many cases the Canadian version has had better selection than the American one. Just prior to the release of The Avengers, I went and watched Captain America, Thor, and IronMan 2 on Netflix. When I mentioned this to some people I know in the US, they practically called me a liar, because those movies were not available on Netflix in the uS.

[Mr.Canada]

t's very easy to make netflix think you're in the USA. I have the American Netflix. Google is your friend.