Mr.Canada Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 In that sense, perhaps. But, there was more to immigration back then; in order to have the better life each desired, there had to be built a framework within which it could grow. Common language, law, and order was needed, and commerce. These things required governments, regulators, and traditions, which, not too ironically, ended up looking essentially the same as the same systems back in the home country. I think there's still a desire on the part of some immigrants to do the same; there are certainly people who come here and start to recreate some of what they left behind, ranging from social groups to legal systems. It's obviously hard to say how many want how much, though. [ed.: sp] People who come to Canada need to embrace the Canadian system not try to change it. If they aren't happy here they can go someplace else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) People who come to Canada need to embrace the Canadian system not try to change it. People coming to Canada always have and always will change the system. It just needs to be allowed to happen organically; people should not try to force incompatible concepts or practices onto the existing order. [ed.: sp (what is with my butterfingers tonight?)] Edited October 2, 2012 by g_bambino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 People coming to Canada always have and always will change the system. It just needs to be allowed to happen organically; people should not try to force incompatible concepts or practices onto the existing order. [ed.: sp (what is with my butterfingers tonight?)] Finally something reasonable. So you are against Sharia Law or do you support it in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 That really is just a slogan - Sharia Law isn't the issue... It's about accommodating religious arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 That really is just a slogan - Sharia Law isn't the issue... It's about accommodating religious arbitration. Michael, Sharia Law isn't reasonable accommodation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 The question is whether we can have religious arbitration while protecting the fundamental rights of individuals, namely women and children? It's not Sharia Law in its entirety that's the problem people want addressed. It's human rights abuse that people are concerned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Michael, Sharia Law isn't reasonable accommodation. I don't get it - these accommodations were probably provided because the Jews wanted them. Can you understand that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 It's human rights abuse that people are concerned about. Sure, and I agree with all of this but the bigger problem is sloganeering and the dumbing down of every debate by people who refuse to discuss things with any grace or subtlety. Let's stop that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Sure, and I agree with all of this but the bigger problem is sloganeering and the dumbing down of every debate by people who refuse to discuss things with any grace or subtlety. Let's stop that. I'm not really sure why you're responding to me with this. I agree with you. I was giving a concrete example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 That really is just a slogan - Sharia Law isn't the issue... It's about accommodating religious arbitration. That's how the issue is pitched. The reality is that participation in arbitration is consensual, even if the consent is given pre-dispute. The problem with Sharia is that "consent" is inferred from "birth". And yes, I feel the same way about quasi-compulsory Bet Dins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Sharia law is like anything else to do with religion. It depends on the interpretation. I think we should leave it up to Muslim women. If they want it, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I'm not really sure why you're responding to me with this. I agree with you. I was giving a concrete example. Well, maybe I can convince you - not to change your mind - but to see the issue from a different angle. This issue, when it's discussed on here, is brought up as part of the international zionis... sorry I mean Muslim conspiracy. It's as ridiculous as any conspiracy theory, even if you agree that religious laws should be kept out of the justice system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 The problem with Sharia is that "consent" is inferred from "birth". But... they WERE going to ask them, right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 That's how the issue is pitched. The reality is that participation in arbitration is consensual, even if the consent is given pre-dispute. The problem with Sharia is that "consent" is inferred from "birth". And yes, I feel the same way about quasi-compulsory Bet Dins. Agreement. Children enter a particular religion at birth. I believe Dawkins termed it 'child abuse'. Also, who determines who is Muslim enough to be judged by such a system. One's father? The government? It's a slippery slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Well, maybe I can convince you - not to change your mind - but to see the issue from a different angle. This issue, when it's discussed on here, is brought up as part of the international zionis... sorry I mean Muslim conspiracy. It's as ridiculous as any conspiracy theory, even if you agree that religious laws should be kept out of the justice system. I'm very confused by your responses to me right now. I think maybe I weighed in on a line of thought, not recognizing where it was going, and you're inferring something from my posts that I hadn't intended. In any case, I'm really not sure why you're directing this at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Wait... MH, are you sauced and debating politics online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch 27 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 So Sharia should have its "own system" within Canada? Is that what you would like? To appease those who come here with strong apposing views of western civilization? Well, maybe I can convince you - not to change your mind - but to see the issue from a different angle. This issue, when it's discussed on here, is brought up as part of the international zionis... sorry I mean Muslim conspiracy. It's as ridiculous as any conspiracy theory, even if you agree that religious laws should be kept out of the justice system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch 27 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Whom aren't aloud to speak? Nice one..... Sharia law is like anything else to do with religion. It depends on the interpretation. I think we should leave it up to Muslim women. If they want it, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 In any case, I'm really not sure why you're directing this at me. Yes, I am directing it at you. Sometimes the answer is not "yes or no" but "why are we debating this ?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 So Sharia should have its "own system" within Canada? Is that what you would like? To appease those who come here with strong apposing views of western civilization? No, I would love that clearly. All Canadians should be forced to submit to Muslim law in its entirety. It should be very clear that that is what I'm demanding from my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Wait... MH, are you sauced and debating politics online? Which is the one true faith ? What's your favourite bourbon ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy MacNab Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Sharia law? I'm getting sick of hearing of a system that condones "honour" killings of one's wife and daughters and that thinks a female who has not been married and bedded by the time she has her first period is a fusty old maid. Anyone who suggests Sharia law should be on the next scow outta here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Sharia law? I'm getting sick of hearing of a system that condones "honour" killings of one's wife and daughters and that thinks a female who has not been married and bedded by the time she has her first period is a fusty old maid. It's usually brought up by people who are against it, like you are. At least on this board. Anyone who suggests Sharia law should be on the next scow outta here. This one's for Cybercoma - see what I mean now ? It's now officially impossible to advocate for the separation of church and state unless you spin it as an anti-Muslim thing. BTW, they say a prayer before the NASCAR races that ends with "Praise Jesus Christ. Shalom." thereby insulting all three "great" religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Whom aren't aloud to speak? Nice one..... They are in Canada. I seem to remember Muslim women were very outspoken against Sharia law being allowed in Ontario under McGuinty, and were instrumental in his decision not to allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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