Canada closes embassy in Iran, expels diplomats.

[pete t teepee]

A symbolic gesture with little real practical value.

While Israel can certainly bomb Iranian installation, recent conflicts in Lebanon have clearly showed the limits of Israel's military capabilities when subjected to asymmetrical warfare, which would undeniably come out a a prolonged conflict.

Canada has no interests in getting in that particular mess. It should go back to its old position; a neutral vantage point from which it can uses its resources to mediate. We do not have the power or the clout to really matter that much as a belligerent force and it affects our standings with the people favorable to the other side.

It didn't show the limits of Israel's military. It showed the limits of Israel's diplomacy.They'd have damned themselves if they wholesale cooked the country. They were already getting slammed for the damage they'd done. Going for all of hezbollah, which immersed itself amongst the population was not an option as no serious and immediate threat to the countries existence was present. They chose lebanon's strategic targets and dialed them backwards in time by two decades, exactly as they said they would. If the rest of the world reached a consensus that a real threat to Israel's existence was present, at a given moment in time, Israel, today, has enough american supplied tech and hardware to "erase" any of the surrounding countries, at will. Israel can and WILL incinerate every living thing in any of those countries if it's survival is at stake.

[Handsome Rob]

I think people may not realize that ever since Ken Taylor, the Canadian Embassy in Iran has always been difficult and relations with Iran very trying.

While I don't consider Iran a Global Threat, one must remember they march to a very different drummer and could be unpredictable. I am not surprised are Diplomats have been pulled, I don't believe this is the first or last time. Nor Do I think Iran much cares what we do.

My concern would be for any Canadians in Iran, who may require the services of the Embassy which they will not be able to receive.

In the end, few here realize that Iran is a democracy and that the people are not as harsh as the right wing government that gets elected.

In fact as well as name?

Is there any more proof that the election valid than there is that it isn't?

[Wild Bill]

What was said when they blew up Iraq and Syria's nuclear facilities? Same thing will happen here, unfortunately. A direct strike on Iran by anyone is an act of war. I think that in defense you can counter attack, but a first strike option is an act of war.

Is it? Depends on how you define the point of origin of an attack.

Consider Pearl Harbour. If the USA had seen the Japanese war fleet steaming towards them, would it not have been a defensive move to attack that fleet first? After all, it would have been obvious that there was no other reason for a huge passle of warships to come barreling down at them!

With atom bombs it is even more crucial! Israel is watching a declared enemy, who has aided and abetted groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to rain rockets down on sleeping civilians, develop the capability of not just an atomic bomb but the rockets to deliver it on top of Jerusalem. The diplomatic rhetoric from the rulers of Iran is hateful and vindictive, to say the very least.

And you say they should not worry about it? If they don't launch a first strike and people like YOU are wrong, what happens?

Just what the bleeding hell do you expect Israel to do? If you expect them to just sit there and not do anything until and unless Iran has ALREADY dropped a bomb on them then you sir, are a loony!

Iran could be far more transparent with International inspections if it wanted to prove that it does not have the capability of nuking Israel, or perhaps even some Arab neighbour. It wasn't that long ago it was in a fierce war with Iraq.

It has chosen to do precisely the opposite! As far as Iran is concerned, it has a right to nuclear capability and the rest of the world can just piss off! If Iran says it is refining uranium for peaceful reactors, the world should just believe it, despite the fact it is refining hundreds of times the amount needed for reactors, in quantities only useful for making nuclear warheads. Iran says that it has developed rockets just to put satellites in orbit then everyone including Israel is just expected to believe them, even though the Safir rocket's 2nd stage capabilities have been kept top secret and the rocket would be perfect for carrying a warhead!

Your argument seems to be that everyone should just take Iran at its word until and unless it has nuked a city or two, no matter what we see and hear before then. Very easy for YOU to say!

If you are wrong, an "oopsie" from folks who believe as you do will not bring back a single innocent life.

[dre]

Is it? Depends on how you define the point of origin of an attack.

Consider Pearl Harbour. If the USA had seen the Japanese war fleet steaming towards them, would it not have been a defensive move to attack that fleet first? After all, it would have been obvious that there was no other reason for a huge passle of warships to come barreling down at them!

With atom bombs it is even more crucial! Israel is watching a declared enemy, who has aided and abetted groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to rain rockets down on sleeping civilians, develop the capability of not just an atomic bomb but the rockets to deliver it on top of Jerusalem. The diplomatic rhetoric from the rulers of Iran is hateful and vindictive, to say the very least.

And you say they should not worry about it? If they don't launch a first strike and people like YOU are wrong, what happens?

Just what the bleeding hell do you expect Israel to do? If you expect them to just sit there and not do anything until and unless Iran has ALREADY dropped a bomb on them then you sir, are a loony!

Iran could be far more transparent with International inspections if it wanted to prove that it does not have the capability of nuking Israel, or perhaps even some Arab neighbour. It wasn't that long ago it was in a fierce war with Iraq.

It has chosen to do precisely the opposite! As far as Iran is concerned, it has a right to nuclear capability and the rest of the world can just piss off! If Iran says it is refining uranium for peaceful reactors, the world should just believe it, despite the fact it is refining hundreds of times the amount needed for reactors, in quantities only useful for making nuclear warheads. Iran says that it has developed rockets just to put satellites in orbit then everyone including Israel is just expected to believe them, even though the Safir rocket's 2nd stage capabilities have been kept top secret and the rocket would be perfect for carrying a warhead!

Your argument seems to be that everyone should just take Iran at its word until and unless it has nuked a city or two, no matter what we see and hear before then. Very easy for YOU to say!

If you are wrong, an "oopsie" from folks who believe as you do will not bring back a single innocent life.

Your argument seems to be that everyone should just take Iran at its word until and unless it has nuked a city or two, no matter what we see and hear before then. Very easy for YOU to say!

Your argument seems to be that we should take wild guesses about what might happen, and waste trillions of dollars and kill hundreds of thousands of people based on those guesses.

Meanwhile Iran has no history of overt aggression against anyone at all. The aggressors over there are us and our friends.

[cybercoma]

Pearson is rolling over in his grave.

[gunrutz]

Pearson is rolling over in his grave.

Cool, i hope he is comfy.

[cybercoma]

Cool, i hope he is comfy.

Your ignorance about the importance of our foreign service is astounding. Ken Taylor helped 6 Americans in 1979 escape Tehran through our embassy. That's just the biggest example of what kind of work our foreign service does there. What about the Canadians that are detained in iran awaiting execution? Shutting down our embassy turns our back on them. This is hardly surprising, however, since the Conservatives seem to be completely incapable of diplomacy and conversation even domestically, let alone internationally and lightyears away from being adept at using it in problematic situations. They want to fix the plugged toilet in their bathroom with a sledgehammer. All they're going to end up with is an even bigger, more disgusting mess.

[bleeding heart]

Canada has just cited Iran's regimes support for Syria's regime as one of the main reasons for this action on the same day our leader arrives in Russia to extol Canada's need for closer ties with China.

China and Russia also support Iran and Syria.

I feel like I'm having my nose rubbed in something but I'm also getting this sense I'm missing something.

I get that feeling too.

[bleeding heart]

I guess the attack on the british embassy had nothing to do with the situation,

The British have, very recently, expressed their true opoinions about the worth of embassies...so no harm, no foul, from their vantage point.

.And by critizing the harper ggoverment on this ,shows that you support Iran over our own goverment.

Exactly! When the PM speaks, it is not for us to criticize or to disagree. People need to learn their proper place, and learn some respect for the Great Man.

[Signals.Cpl]

Your argument seems to be that we should take wild guesses about what might happen, and waste trillions of dollars and kill hundreds of thousands of people based on those guesses.

Meanwhile Iran has no history of overt aggression against anyone at all. The aggressors over there are us and our friends.

Yeah but they have a history of covert aggression... but I guess that doesn't count does it?

[Signals.Cpl]

Your ignorance about the importance of our foreign service is astounding. Ken Taylor helped 6 Americans in 1979 escape Tehran through our embassy. That's just the biggest example of what kind of work our foreign service does there. What about the Canadians that are detained in iran awaiting execution? Shutting down our embassy turns our back on them. This is hardly surprising, however, since the Conservatives seem to be completely incapable of diplomacy and conversation even domestically, let alone internationally and lightyears away from being adept at using it in problematic situations. They want to fix the plugged toilet in their bathroom with a sledgehammer. All they're going to end up with is an even bigger, more disgusting mess.

So you think that the Liberal Government before the Conservatives was adept at solving such issues?

Edited September 8, 2012 by Signals.Cpl

[cybercoma]

So you think that the Liberal Government before the Conservatives was adept at solving such issues?

Is that a question?

The answer is no. I don't. For that matter, I don't think the Progressive Conservatives before them were any better either, nor the Liberals before them.

Edited September 8, 2012 by cybercoma

[madmax]

I wouldn't mind breaking off relations with a lot more dictatorships. I can see where that isn't practical with the bigger ones like China and Russia, but we don't need to have any sort of relationship with Iran, or for that matter, Syria, or Saudi Arabia.

I believe you when you say it, but I don't believe any government of any stripe would dare add Saudi Arabia to the mix.

[Signals.Cpl]

The British have, very recently, expressed their true opoinions about the worth of embassies...so no harm, no foul, from their vantage point.

Exactly! When the PM speaks, it is not for us to criticize or to disagree. People need to learn their proper place, and learn some respect for the Great Man.

Or maybe the Government realizes that things are getting pretty tense in there and would like to get out before we have to send the Special Forces to rescue the diplomats and the diplomatic staff.

[Signals.Cpl]

Is that a question?

The answer is no. I don't. For that matter, I don't think the Progressive Conservatives before them were any better either, nor the Liberals before them.

Yet You blame the conservatives...

[cybercoma]

Yet You blame the conservatives...

Gee, why would I blame the Tories for closing the embassy in Iran when diplomacy has saved people's lives in the past? Why would I blame the Tories for being stupid when there's at least two Canadians caught up in the legal system in Iran as I type this? Why oh why am I blaming the Tories?

[madmax]

I love it how you people never EVER put any blame on the other guy. It's always all the West's fault, no matter how beligerent and nasty the other guy is.

I will only state that you have misread my post.

[Signals.Cpl]

Gee, why would I blame the Tories for closing the embassy in Iran when diplomacy has saved people's lives in the past? Why would I blame the Tories for being stupid when there's at least two Canadians caught up in the legal system in Iran as I type this? Why oh why am I blaming the Tories?

Do you honestly think that our embassy can do anything should things get heated? Im sure the Canadian Embassy would be the first to be taken over. What can they do?

[cybercoma]

Do you honestly think that our embassy can do anything should things get heated? Im sure the Canadian Embassy would be the first to be taken over. What can they do?

Yes. I think they can and I have shown you how they have.

[Signals.Cpl]

Yes. I think they can and I have shown you how they have.

How have they helped?

[cybercoma]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21421&view=findpost&p=827691

[Signals.Cpl]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21421&view=findpost&p=827691

How stupid do you think they are? Just because of what they did in 79 will mean that we are the first target next time around so that we can't do it again. It would have been more effective if no one knew about it... If you were the government of Iran, and you know that last time around the Canadian Embassy did those things what would you do? If it were me, at the first sign of hostilities I would raid the Embassy and capture everyone inside as the Canadian Government has proven what they can do.

[cybercoma]

How stupid do you think they are? Just because of what they did in 79 will mean that we are the first target next time around so that we can't do it again. It would have been more effective if no one knew about it... If you were the government of Iran, and you know that last time around the Canadian Embassy did those things what would you do? If it were me, at the first sign of hostilities I would raid the Embassy and capture everyone inside as the Canadian Government has proven what they can do.

Raiding an embassy is an open declaration of war that would be instantly condemned by every nation on the planet. In fact, it is considered in international law to be the same thing as launching an attack on that nation's soil. Every country on the planet would cut diplomatic ties with them.

Do you know anything about the foreign service, out of curiosity? Because it sounds an awful lot like you're just making stuff up as you go. It doesn't seem like you really know the kind of work that our embassies and ambassadors carry out.

[cybercoma]

Actually, come to think of it there was some discussion recently about this because authorities were going to raid an embassy to get the WikiLeaks guy. so you should be aware of these things. They were even hesitant to arrest a single person in an embassy.

[Signals.Cpl]

Raiding an embassy is an open declaration of war that would be instantly condemned by every nation on the planet. In fact, it is considered in international law to be the same thing as launching an attack on that nation's soil. Every country on the planet would cut diplomatic ties with them.

Do you know anything about the foreign service, out of curiosity? Because it sounds an awful lot like you're just making stuff up as you go. It doesn't seem like you really know the kind of work that our embassies and ambassadors carry out.

What kind of work? Making fake documents to get American citizens posing as Canadians out of Iran? That Kind of work? And by the way, What happened in 1979? I believe there was an embassy involved somehow...

The US is moving more and more military assets to the area, Iran's economy is taking hit after hit so I can see since both sides are a little trigger happy a small incident expanding dramatically. Iran can take over the Canadian Embassy and they would have perfectly legitimate excuse because Canada did something to help out US citizens and then advertised it to the world.