j44 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Edited to add: As I said, the Republican Convention was all for show. Do you think otherwise? Do you think it would be a positive thing if Americans hung on every word? Of course it was for show and then don' have to hang on every word but it is far better to pay attention to the RNC than the other show. You mean the opportunity for some rube family to exploit their little child for money? And the appetite for people to want to watch that sort of trainwreck? ^This. You're comparing being politically engaged to watching TLC? ^and this But what about the fact that the royal family are muti-millionaires? - simply by virtue of their birth? And the head of the said family is your head of state - how does that make you feel? At least Snooki got there by the opportunities afforded in our countries. The royal family got there simply by birth. If the family on this show uses their fame and wealth to work for causes and charities this is a comparable situation. Until then, it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 No, I don't, actually. I mean "candidates," just as I said. I didn't see any Canadian candidates that I would vote for dress up their children like a plastic doll and parade them around. But since you said "candidates",I am sure you have a link. Maybe in the UK,Mexico,Japan,France,Portugal? WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Edited to add: As I said, the Republican Convention was all for show. Do you think otherwise? Do you think it would be a positive thing if Americans hung on every word? No, but if you're going to vote for a presidential ticket you should probably take a few minutes to listen to what these guys have to say even if it's bologna, especially if it's a guy new to most people. I don't see people skipping watching something garbage on tv (yet important) for something even more garabge as something endearing for Americans or any country for that matter. Hopefully the "Toddler & Tiaras" demographics stays home on voting day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 yes.... and no. Seriously. Think about it. Isn't the opportunity for Joe America to make a success the most important thing? - to Joe America? Edited to add: As I said, the Republican Convention was all for show. Do you think otherwise? Do you think it would be a positive thing if Americans hung on every word? Watching it doesn't mean hanging on every word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Really? That's the "best hope?" And who exactly has determined that? - the same people who claim that the best hope for members of the working class in Canada is to land a spot on a hockey team? A new report from the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD) finds that social mobility between generations is dramatically lower in the U.S. than in many other developed countries. So if you want your children to climb the socioeconomic ladder higher than you did, move to Canada.The report finds the U.S. ranking well below Denmark, Australia, Norway, Finland, Canada, Sweden, Germany and Spain in terms of how freely citizens move up or down the social ladder. Only in Italy and Great Britain is the intensity of the relationship between individual and parental earnings even greater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Politically engaged? Please. The Republican Convention was a show - complete with Clint Eastwood. Same as the Democratic Convention will be. They are what they are. Is that a bad thing? That's the question. Speaking for myself, I'm no more inclined to watch the Conventions than I am Honey Boo Boo, but to me, it shows that Americans are not going to be taken in by what a candidate has to say at their convention. I see that as a good thing. It is being politically engaged. Liars or not, you should listen to what candidates have to say, especially in the biggest speeches of their careers and in the presidential 2012 election thus far...in the very least to hold them accountable for what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 defines america. the american culture and society is flushing down the toilet and some people are proud of it. Aw, whether you think this argument is legitimate or not you opened yourself up to it and must have seen it coming. As one who thinks American has done, and still does, great things for the world you posting this does not exactly send a great message. It just re-enforces an image a lot of people have. I don't think that image is correct (at least not in most cases) but it puts it out there. Snooki didn't build that... This is the best line I've read in ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Of course it was for show and then don' have to hang on every word but it is far better to pay attention to the RNC than the other show. Why? If it's all for show - same as Honey Boo Boo- is it better to watch the Republican Convention? I pay attention to politics - but I don't pay attention to the conventions. To me they are as much a 'show' as Honey Boo Boo, but at least Honey Boo Boo is supposed to be a show, purely for entertainment. Furthermore, as I said, Joe America is making money off it as opposed to Joe Politician. Is that a bad thing? ^This. I suggest you observe how politicians are putting their kids out there for political gain. ^and this How is watching a convention that is, even to your admission, for show - being "politically engaged?" If the family on this show uses their fame and wealth to work for causes and charities this is a comparable situation. Until then, it is not. Seriously. You think politicians are using their fame and wealth for "causes and charities??" More to the point, you believe that was the purpose of the [Republican] Convention? Edited August 31, 2012 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Watching it doesn't mean hanging on every word. x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Why I love the US... Your crazy half - aka the Republican base - has made it cool once again for a western democracy to chant its own name again and again like zombies. It's endearing to see. I mean that type nationalist pride went out of style after the fall of the Nazis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yeah, because of course no dumbass Canadians watch. They're all too busy watching the AMERICAN conventions. Hanging on every word. I don't know... I haven't a clue if the 'Snooki show' is carried anywhere in Canada... until she showed up one night on Late Night, I had never heard of this 'American idol' kudos to you for laying out just why you, 'love the U.S.'! If Snooki can have the American Dream, anyone can... even you, hey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) The US has the worst economic inequality of all OECD countries, that's probably a major reason for poor socioeconomic mobilty in the US. Countries like Chad, Vietnam, Syria, Tanzania rank better in economic equality than the US according to World Bank gini coefficient stats: My link Edited August 31, 2012 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Why? If it's all for show - same as Honey Boo Boo- is it better to watch the Republican Convention? I pay attention to politics - but I don't pay attention to the conventions. To me they are as much a 'show' as Honey Boo Boo, but at least Honey Boo Boo is supposed to be a show, purely for entertainment. Furthermore, as I said, Joe America is making money off it as opposed to Joe Politician. Is that a bad thing? I suggest you observe how politicians are putting their kids out there for political gain. How is watching a convention that is, even to your admission, for show - being "politically engaged?" Seriously. You think politicians are using their fame and wealth for "causes and charities??" More to the point, you believe that was the purpose of the [Republican] Convention? 1. To compare the two as you are doing you must think the RNC has ZERO substance. Is that right? 2. Someone who started a thread like this shouldn't be so condescending. especially since I didn't say I didn't have a problem with other people exploiting their children. 3. Paying attention is part of the process. 4. Are you seriously reading my statements like that or are you purposely twisting them? I was referring to the royal family and I didn't say that was what they were doing at the RNC. Edited August 31, 2012 by j44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Why I love the US... Your crazy half - aka the Republican base - has made it cool once again for a western democracy to chant its own name again and again like zombies. Hence her remark, The inability to comprehend defines a lot of non-Americans. ...and its clearly-implied correlative. She really does think that a geographical accident of birth makes her smarter than everybody! Edited August 31, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Aw, whether you think this argument is legitimate or not you opened yourself up to it and must have seen it coming. Do you think I care what the bud's of the world think? That's one of the things I love about the U.S., too - generally speaking, we don't care. I don't agree with what bud says, so why would I care if I "opened myself up to it?" I made a point - I'm not looking for worldwide agreement; that's not the purpose of this thread. As one who thinks American has done, and still does, great things for the world you posting this does not exactly send a great message. It just re-enforces an image a lot of people have. I don't think that image is correct (at least not in most cases) but it puts it out there. Really? And the reality - ie: "image" is - Americans have opportunities to compete with politicians - their show vs. the politician's "show." I think people are focusing too literally on the Honey Boo Boo show itself, rather than what I am saying. Anyone who would watch the Republican Convention as some sort of 'revelation' doesn't understand what it is all about, IMO. Politics is also sometimes for "show," and I think Americans get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 She really does think that a geographical accident of birth makes her smarter than everybody! Yeah, that's what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Why I love the US... Your crazy half - aka the Republican base - has made it cool once again for a western democracy to chant its own name again and again like zombies. It's endearing to see. I mean that type nationalist pride went out of style after the fall of the Nazis. Here's the kind of thing that pisses me off about the US, and I'm sure it's the same for others around the world: Americans, especially politicians (including several speakers at the Republican Convention this week, including Romney), frequently say something along the lines of "The US is the best country in the world!" amid huge cheers (Romney even said the US was the greatest country in human history last night). Really?...Well FUCK YOU! Most people in most other countries, including Canadians, don't go around saying "we're the best! we're better than all of you!". I've said something like "We're one of the greatest countries in the world!" because it's true, but I don't see Canada as much better than say Denmark or Norway or Germany etc. There's a reason why people think many Americans are arrogant: because they are. Saying "you're the best in the world"...with the rest of the world watching, goes beyond confidence to arrogance. My grandfather was in the Canadian military, and was stationed in Washington DC, therefore my mom grew up for a number of years living there. She said a big difference between Canadian and US schools was that the Americans drill it into the children's heads that they ARE the best, through history and whatnot, and eventually you start to believe it. There is definitely something good to be said of having confidence and pride in your countries, but like wtf? Edited August 31, 2012 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Why I love the US... Your crazy half - aka the Republican base - has made it cool once again for a western democracy to chant its own name again and again like zombies. It's endearing to see. I mean that type nationalist pride went out of style after the fall of the Nazis. Man that's something freekin funny! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Do you think I care what the bud's of the world think? That's one of the things I love about the U.S., too - generally speaking, we don't care. I don't agree with what bud says, so why would I care if I "opened myself up to it?" I made a point - I'm not looking for worldwide agreement; that's not the purpose of this thread. Really? And the reality - ie: "image" is - Americans have opportunities to compete with politicians - their show vs. the politician's "show." I think people are focusing too literally on the Honey Boo Boo show itself, rather than what I am saying. Anyone who would watch the Republican Convention as some sort of 'revelation' doesn't understand what it is all about, IMO. Politics is also sometimes for "show," and I think Americans get that. you are missing my point. It isn't just the bud's of the world that react that way. And part of the problem is that some Americans dont care what the world thinks. I didnt say you cared if you opened yourself up to it. I was implying that such a foolish post would result in such barrage of attacks. And I was wondering if you actually saw them coming or not. Of course people understand that politics is for show sometimes. We don't need this comparison with the show to point that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 1. To compare the two as you are doing you must think the RNC has ZERO substance. Is that right? Actually, I think it has the substance of a "show." Seriously. I think the whole point is to make a show of the candidate and to provide the opportunity to make a speech and not much else. I would never let a convention sway my vote. 2. Someone who started a thread like this shouldn't be so condescending. especially since I didn't say I didn't have a problem with other people exploiting their children. Or perhaps someone who made the comment that you did shouldn't be so sensitive/defensive regarding the response it elicited, because if you do have a problem with politician's exploiting their children too, I didn't get that from your response. 3. Paying attention is part of the process. What people choose to pay attention to is also part of the process. Everything doesn't warrant equal attention. But that's not what I was saying - I was just pointing out that I think it's a positive thing about America that a little Honey Boo Boo can take away from a political "show." If you disagree, so be it. But why must I either agree with you - or else there's something wrong with my POV? I do like that about the U.S. - that there is this kind of opportunity. Do I like the show? No. I like the availability of the opportunity. 4. Are you seriously reading my statements like that or are you purposely twisting them? I was referring to the royal family and I didn't say that was what they were doing at the RNC. Evidently, from your response here, I misinterpreted your prior response - for which I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 4. Are you seriously reading my statements like that or are you purposely twisting them? I was referring to the royal family and I didn't say that was what they were doing at the RNC. Welcome to the world of debating with American Woman.(I personally think she's already started drinking,if you know what I mean) WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ya know, earlier I thought about posting something about that Harvard class on Congressional politics where half of the students got caught cheating. I thought it was an amusing story. Not just that it was a class on politics but on congress. I didn't post it because I didnt think it deserved its own thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Actually, I think it has the substance of a "show." Seriously. I think the whole point is to make a show of the candidate and to provide the opportunity to make a speech and not much else. I would never let a convention sway my vote. Or perhaps someone who made the comment that you did shouldn't be so sensitive/defensive regarding the response it elicited, because if you do have a problem with politician's exploiting their children too, I didn't get that from your response. What people choose to pay attention to is also part of the process. Everything doesn't warrant equal attention. But that's not what I was saying - I was just pointing out that I think it's a positive thing about America that a little Honey Boo Boo can take away from a political "show." If you disagree, so be it. But why must I either agree with you - or else there's something wrong with my POV? I do like that about the U.S. - that there is this kind of opportunity. Do I like the show? No. I like the availability of the opportunity. Yeah, that is part of the point. I wasn't being sensitive or defensive. I was saying that I thought you were being condescending. And it should be kinda obvious that I have a problem with anyone exploiting their children. Don't you see that as what the people on the show are doing? I don't think saying that you are happy that a show like that can exist and that it is a good thing that it takes attention away form politics is the same thing. I didn't say you had to agree with me or anyone else. But again, you opened yourself up to a debate like this when you started this thread. I don't know if you can really say it is wrong for us to disagree with you. People paying attention to that show is NOT part of the political process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Yeah, that's what I think. Evidently. A remark about failures of "non-Americans"," in this context, implies something else about "Americans." Grammar's a bitch! Edited August 31, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 you are missing my point. It isn't just the bud's of the world that react that way. And part of the problem is that some Americans dont care what the world thinks. But here's the thing. Not everyone reacts the way bud/the buds of the world did; and if you think it's a problem that not every American cares what the world thinks about everything, I personally don't see that as a bad thing. I don't think it's our obligation to care what the world thinks about everything, and I think it would be detrimental to our country to have that attitude. Do you care what the world thinks regarding everything Canada does? I didnt say you cared if you opened yourself up to it. I was implying that such a foolish post would result in such barrage of attacks. And I was wondering if you actually saw them coming or not. I don't think it's a foolish post. I think I had a point to make, and I think everyone is so busy reacting that they are failing to see what I am actually saying. You are defending the Republican Convention as Political Awareness. I see it as just another "show." I also see it as a good thing that Joe America can generate as much attention as a political "show." Of course people understand that politics is for show sometimes. We don't need this comparison with the show to point that out. My point goes further than that; in fact that was hardly my point, but if you don't see it, so be it. I can live with that. I was making a point that I don't think people here are necessarily getting - or perhaps it is a cultural thing. Or perhaps the problem with several members being suspended at one time is a skewed perspective on the board. I'd appreciate responses from a broader base, but that's ok. I can have such discussions in the Real World, so to speak. I was just interested in what people here had to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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