You may hate Rob Ford . . .

[guyser]

So putting that aside, I believe your understanding is based on the 'dark alley, violent act' stereotype of rape, but as I emphasized, date rape is also rape, and accounts for the highest percentage of rapes. While stranger rape and date rape are both rape, there are different variables involved as to how and why they occur; different patterns, so it stands to reason that the mindset some men have would be a variable in whether or not they would commit date rape. Add intoxication, and it further increases the likelihood of the mindset becoming the action.

No I am not of the dark alley understanding.

Date rape is a horrible phenomenon that I know only too well. Booze seems to be more an excuse than a reason, at least with the women I know who have been raped/assaulted.

I dont think different patterns is valid either insofar as to the why's of rape. It appears to me to be vulnerability in all the cases that I know.How tha rapist gets the woman to that stage may incur patterns, but the end goal is to get her vulnerable.

[Guest American Woman]

No I am not of the dark alley understanding.

Date rape is a horrible phenomenon that I know only too well. Booze seems to be more an excuse than a reason, at least with the women I know who have been raped/assaulted.

How would you know if it's more of an excuse than a reason? Do you honestly think that a person's judgment and reasoning are not affected by alcohol?

You do realize that some boys/men wrongly judge a girl's/woman's character by her dress, right?

I dont think different patterns is valid either insofar as to the why's of rape.

Assuming your answer to the above question is yes, you do realize that some boys/men judge a girl's/woman's character by her dress, how can you believe that this mindset couldn't have any bearing on any of their actions?

If a guy is intoxicated and he's of the mindset that his date's provocative dress is an indication that she's out for sex, it stands to reason that it could make him more likely to commit date rape. I don't understand why you think a man's mindset could have no influence on his actions - especially when he's intoxicated.

Edited September 5, 2012 by American Woman

[guyser]

Assuming your answer to the above question is yes, you do realize that some boys/men judge a girl's/woman's character by her dress, how can you believe that this mindset couldn't have any bearing on any of their actions?

If a guy is intoxicated and he's of the mindset that his date's provocative dress is an indication that she's out for sex, it stands to reason that it could make him more likely to commit date rape. I don't understand why you think a man's mindset could have no influence on his actions - especially when he's intoxicated.

The clothing a woman wears is not indicative of her character but more of the person making that character assumption.

Date rape, and rape in general is all about power and control with a mysoginistic bent to it.

Why are , invalid, mentally challenged, sick and infirm , older women and grannies raped? It sure as hell cant be the dress.

[Guest American Woman]

The clothing a woman wears is not indicative of her character but more of the person making that character assumption.

Exactly! And the likelihood of date rape is wrapped up in that character, or more correctly, lack of character; ie; the character of the man making that assumption.

Date rape, and rape in general is all about power and control with a mysoginistic bent to it.

That's not true. As I pointed out, there are different patterns, different causes, different mindsets involved. Not all rapes are the same, ie: based on the same mindset/circumstances/desires.

Why are , invalid, mentally challenged, sick and infirm , older women and grannies raped? It sure as hell cant be the dress.

How many of them are victims of date rape?

[cybercoma]

How would you know if it's more of an excuse than a reason? Do you honestly think that a person's judgment and reasoning are not affected by alcohol?

You do realize that some boys/men wrongly judge a girl's/woman's character by her dress, right?

Assuming your answer to the above question is yes, you do realize that some boys/men judge a girl's/woman's character by her dress, how can you believe that this mindset couldn't have any bearing on any of their actions?

If a guy is intoxicated and he's of the mindset that his date's provocative dress is an indication that she's out for sex, it stands to reason that it could make him more likely to commit date rape. I don't understand why you think a man's mindset could have no influence on his actions - especially when he's intoxicated.

Even if a woman is out for sex, dressed provocatively, and has a history of being sexually adventurous, that still doesn't excuse someone forcing themselves on her without her consent. It certainly isn't in any way shape or form her fault if someone does either. A woman has every right to be as sexual as she wants without having to worry about being raped for it.

[cybercoma]

All this talk about a woman dressing modestly to protect herself and not being promiscuous to protect herself is nothing more than a sign of a culture that tries to control women in every way. How about we teach men not to rape women? Perhaps that should be the thrust of the message, no? The idea that a woman should dress moderately or not be provocative suggests an implied consent. There is no such thing as implied consent. Maybe we should be making that clear, instead of trying to control what women do with their bodies, how women look, and the way women behave. If you're going to control anything, you should be controlling the poor behaviour of the rapists.

[guyser]

Exactly! And the likelihood of date rape is wrapped up in that character, or more correctly, lack of character; ie; the character of the man making that assumption.

I wish I knew, but I doubt that rapes occur because of dress. In every case, no, but in the majority I would think not.

That's not true. As I pointed out, there are different patterns, different causes, different mindsets involved. Not all rapes are the same, ie: based on the same mindset/circumstances/desires.

I dont rec all seeing where you pointed that out, maybe you said it, but I dont see any evidence

This may change your mind though.

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-root-cause-rape-male-dominated-society-254626.html

Blurb...""For most men, aggression, whether physical or verbal, is instrumental, a way of controlling others, attaining social or material benefits, dominance, and self esteem" (Taslitz, 1999, p. 25). In other words, aggression is central to a man's behavior. And men are central to society's institutions. Therefore, male aggression creates the atmosphere for rape because society grants men the role of control over women in all institutions. "What I see all too often are stories about military bases, big business, universities, professional sports organizations where women were humiliated and abused by men who thought they had a license to do whatever they wanted to them" (Lefkowitz, 1999).

How many of them are victims of date rape?

Well...we were talking of rape and date rape

Edited September 6, 2012 by guyser

[Guest American Woman]

I wish I knew, but I doubt that rapes occur because of dress. In every case, no, but in the majority I would think not.

Even if it's not the majority, if it does increase the likelihood, it is a factor. It sometimes sends a mixed signal to some men, and again, that's not blaming the woman - but it is the way it is. I'm not saying that it's the sole reason, but it's a contributing factor, a factor which sometimes increases the likelihood of rape, especially, as I've been pointing out, date rape.

I dont rec all seeing where you pointed that out, maybe you said it, but I dont see any evidence

Research shows that how a woman dresses may be interpreted as a cue to her character, vulnerability, willingness to have sex, and provocation of males’ behavior and, consequently, affects the likelihood of sexual assault, including date rape. (Workman & Freeburg, 1999). link

Because some men are confused about women's sexual consent cues (Holcomb, Holcomb, Sondag, & Williams, 1991), how a woman dresses may be misinterpreted as a cue to her willingness to have sex (Cassidy & Hurrell, 1995). Misinterpretation of sexual consent has potential to result in date rape (Cassidy & Hurrell, 1995; Muehlenhard, 1988; Muehlenhard & Hollabaugh, 1988; Muehlenhard & Linton, 1987).

link

The consensual sex scenario is a component of the date rape prevention program, and is largely based on many of the known correlates to the occurrence of date rape and the work of Beneke (1982), who interviewed rapists and identified some of the most common reasons that rapists cited for mistakenly believing consent occurred (e.g., if a woman was dressed attractively, if the man spent a lot of money on the date), (see Holcomb, et al., 1993 for exact wording of the scenario). link

Sexual Signals: Unmixing the Message

At the heart of questions about date rape lie basic differences in the ways in which males and females interpret behavioral signals by the other sex.

[...] factors that can lead to mixed messages: Body language and behavior by a woman that can be misconstrued, including dress, posture, physical closeness, touching, etc. link

Well...we were talking of rape and date rape

Yes, but I've been stressing date rape in regards to how a woman is dressed and pointing out that the reasons/circumstances/mindset is different from violent stranger rape, so maybe there's been some confusion there.

Again. It stands to reason that if some men have the mindset, it could, and sometimes does, affect his actions; especially when alcohol is involved. If girls/women know this, are aware if it, they may be more inclined to strongly communicate their desires if they prefer that style of dress. IOW, it's not a bad thing to be informed about the possible increased risk. In fact, I think it's a bad thing to put out the message to young girls and women that they can dress however they want and it's not going to increase the risk of sexual assault at all.

Edited to add:

I'm not arguing the information in the link you cited; I agree with it. I just don't think it applies to all rapes, and I think there may be other contributing factors as well, especially regarding date rape.

Edited September 6, 2012 by American Woman

[Boges]

So we'll have to wait awhile to see if Ford loses his job. He was on the stand for four hours yesterday and basically plead ignorance.

Even supporters would have to say, seeing him admit to never reading the Councilor handbook and never attending the Councilor orientation, makes him look foolish. Of course he does a lot of stuff that makes him look foolish.

He'll probably be found guilty of a conflict of interest but since he stood no real personal gains from his conflict of interest it's really hard to think the judge will turf him from office for $3,000 raised for a charity and that he voted not to repay the donation.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Boges

[Black Dog]

Even if it's not the majority, if it does increase the likelihood, it is a factor. It sometimes sends a mixed signal to some men, and again, that's not blaming the woman - but it is the way it is. I'm not saying that it's the sole reason, but it's a contributing factor, a factor which sometimes increases the likelihood of rape, especially, as I've been pointing out, date rape.

It's pretty clear from the links you posted that it's not clear how much of a contributing factor it is or whether we're dealing with post-hoc rationalizations.

for example (from your first link)

In addition, studies show that men and women, who saw photographs of a rape victim in “provocative” clothing, attribute more responsibility to the victim than those who saw a rape victim dressed in “conservative” clothing

...

More research indicates that, “provocative” dress on the part of the victim of date rape, resulted in a greater likelihood that people would attribute responsibility for the assailant’s behavior to the victim, as well as the association of the greater tendency for people to agree that the behavior of the assailant was justified (Cassidy & Hurrell, 1995).

And from your second link:

Among statements endorsed by 356 college men were items about victim dress as a cause of rape (e.g., "Women provoke rape by their appearance or behavior"). Provoking rape is synonymous with causing rape. Cassidy and Hurrell (1995) asked 173 male and 179 female high school students to read a vignette depicting date rape. The vignette was accompanied by a photograph of a victim in (a) provocative clothing, ( conservative clothing, or © no photograph. Students who viewed a photograph of the victim in provocative clothing were most likely to indicate that the victim was responsible for her assailant's behavior, that his behavior was justified, and were least likely to judge the act of unwanted sexual intercourse as rape.

Nor is the research you cited all in agreement. from your second link:

Fairstein (1993, pp. 132-133) noted, "most sexual assaults occur when there is a combination of two critical conditions: opportunity and vulnerability. The rapist needs the opportunity to commit the crime, and he succeeds when a victim is vulnerable at the moment of his opportunity." Richards, Rollerson, and Phillips (1991) hypothesized that nonverbal, as well as verbal, cues may affect perceptions of a woman's submissiveness and, subsequently, a potential assaulter's judgment of vulnerability. They found that dominant and submissive college women displayed visually different appearances (e.g., submissive women wore body-concealing clothing). College men's perceptions of dominant and submissive women were based primarily on dress as impressions were not influenced by body movements or presence/absence of sound. Richards et al. (1991) concluded that there was evidence to support the proposition that college men selected submissive women for exploitation.

IMO, we can't really draw too much of a conclusion from this and I certainly don't think the evidence presented is sufficient to conclude that telling women to change or be aware of how they dress is good advice. What all this research does tell us is that there's a lot of work to be done when it comes to changing attitudes towards the perception of rape victims who are seen to be "asking for it" (to paraphrase the Barabara Kay article) because of how they dress. To me, a good place to start there would be to spend less time chiding women for their sartorial choices and more time telling men that it's not ok to rape someone because you think they want sex because of how they are dressed.

[Rue]

Let me ask you this, big man. When a woman dresses in a way that you consider "slutty," do suddenly get the urge to rape her? Let me know because if you do, I think you pose a risk to society and should probably be locked up.

Big man? What we back to being inscure about out penis size when debating? Lol.

Listen up pee wee (now that you mentioned it)...at no time have I ever made any comment that would suggest I consider any women's attire slutty but I am sure something you or Black Dog would wear would probbably be oh you know as he says pendantic, you know tacky..

You restated my point in such a manner because it shows you do not understand it and need to paraphrase it into something neither I ever contended nor American Women nor Ford ever stated and therein lies the problem. You and Doggy Doo jump to conclusions because you need to reframe peoples' positions that differ from yours into neat little black and white categories for your brain to fathom and make simple rigid differentation from. Picking up those grey areas in between the extremes is something the two of you don't seem to grasp.

This was never about moral choices or what is or is not enticing for me. I am not the rapist. What I feel means sweet phack all. This is about what women feel and what women do to make themselves feel safe and they have a right to express their opinions on that matter that do not agree with yours or Doggy Doo's.

What one violent person may or may not find enticing is not the issue and never was. It would be absurd to try reduce this issue into what is or is not slutty but again that is how your mind works, it can't possibly perceive there is a range fo perception.

This is not about telling a woman not to look slutty. You and the purveyor of all that is politically proper on this planet, the fashion monger of the politically correct Doggy Doo rdeliobeately misframed Ford'sc omment into a ridiculous attempt at suggesting she and now we were all commenting on women being sluts. But that is par for the course. Mistating what people say is what you do right? Then we giggle tee hee.

Let's try it again. Maybe you want to read this slowly. Whether you or I agree with it or not, reality is such that there are men out there who will look at what a woman wears and interpret it in a sexual way. Whether that increases the likelihood of that man acting out violently I do not know nor claimed to know other than to say if women advise other women, careful tou might unintentionally spark the wrong interest-it is their opinion to each other and neither you nor Bud as much as you may tell us you wear women's clothes are experts on it. In fact from what I gather neither of you has daughters either.

But hell from what you say if your Mama goes for a walk with no underwear and the wind blows that would not bother you. So bully for you. (there I conclude that the way you conclude I assume people are sluts)

Uh no Cyber, I am not the one who comes on this Board and in one breath extols the virtues of Muslim extremist fundamentalists who pee pee cluck cluck at Israel and then in the next breath suddenly talk as if he is a a champion of women's croghts to look sexually yum yum is not my domain. It is doggy doo's. This boy has enough problems keeping his own underwear from bunching up you dig?

What I and others have said are that women must use their own individual judgement as to what to wear. This is about women making an individual choice. If some wish to wear highly sexual clothing its their choice and dont' pretend like you need me to explain what revealing clothing is. Play that idiotic game with someone else. If you don't know what a vagina or breasts look like go ask someone.

Women will make up their individual minds what to wear and when. They will make their own choices. Not me. Not you. Not Doggy doo. Them. Some women will advise other women what I did my daughters and every parent has with their daughters-watch what you wear-there is a double standard out there-be carefukl and use some street sense. Be pro-active.

If you can't understand that and want to twist that around into an opportunity to giggle and guffaw at a young woman who was trying to say something intended to be positive that keep giggling.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Rue

[cybercoma]

So again, it's women's fault for getting raped because they weren't being pro-active in protecting themselves by not dressing like a slut. Got it.

Edited September 6, 2012 by cybercoma

[Black Dog]

I know I'll regret wading into the mouth of madness, but...

This was never about moral choices or what is or is not enticing for me. I am not the rapist. Neither was that the post. What one violent person may or may not find enticing is not the issue and never was. This is not about telling a woman not to look slutty. You and the purveyor of all that is politically proper on this planet, the fashion monger of the politically correct Doggy Doo restated this comment into a ridiculous attempt at suggesting we were all commenting on being sluts.

You're right, it's not about telling women not to look slutty. It's about telling women not to dress like "whores."

The Krista Ford tweet, again:

“Stay alert, walk tall, carry mace, take self-defence classes & don’t dress like a whore.”

Sluts, whores: in this context, I'm not sure I see the difference.

Let's try it again. Maybe you want to read this slowly. Whether you or I agree with it or not, reality is such that there are men out there who will look at what a woman wears and interpret it in a sexual way. Whether that increases the likelihood of that man acting out violently I do not know nor claimed to know other than to say if women advise other women, careful tou might unintentionally spark the wrong interest-it is their opinion to each other and neither you nor Bud as much as you may tell us you wear women's clothes are experts on it. In fact from what I gather neither of you has daughters eithe

...

What I and others have said women must use their own individual judgement as to what to wear. This is about women makingg an individual choice. If some wish to wear highly sexual clothing its their choice and dont' pretend like you need me to explain what revealing clothing is.

In other words: if women wear revealing clothing they should expect to be raped.

Cool.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Black Dog

[cybercoma]

Nope. No victim blaming here. Just sound rational advice. Nevermind giving the advice that it's never ok to rape a woman no matter what she wears and that you must always get consent to have sex with someone. Nope. Stop dressing like whores, ladies. You might entice the uncontrollable desires of men. It's excusable, you see, because it's in their nature. They can't control it. Ladies, you can control how you dress though. So stop being whores and you won't get raped. Maybe a nice burqa or hijab in August. We won't force you to wear it though. We're not like those animals in the Middle East. It will be your choice. Except, if you don't make that choice, it's your fault if a man rapes you. So sorry.

Edited September 6, 2012 by cybercoma

[Rue]

Oh look his Majesty, the Bawana, The Doggy of the Dark....there but for the Grace of the Almighty, the Annointed One Appointed As Purveryor of all that is acceptable has pronounced:

"It's pretty clear from the links you posted that it's not clear how much of a contributing factor it is or whether we're dealing with post-hoc rationalizations."

There you go. The Doggy can't understand so its not clear. His brain can't imagine of a range of perceptions between his favourite colour black and the favourite colour of Aryans, white.

He pronounces in one sweeping statement because its not clear to him, its not clear for us all. Why thank you Lord Bwana for thinking for me and telling me what must be.

The point of those articles was not to provide the Lord Bwana with a simplistic black and white answer but to show there is a range of perception between those who can control their pee pees and those who can not. No more no less and that because some can not, it might be pro-active in some cases to avoid behaviour that might be misinterpreted by some but certainly not all. No where in the studies did it blame women if they do not wear certain clothing. No where did it suggest their individual choice to decide should not exist.

Oh but read now how the Lord Bwana purveyor of all thoughts for us all talks in the Roral prerogative as he states:

....we can't really draw too much of a conclusion from this and I certainly don't think the evidence presented is sufficient to conclude that telling women to change or be aware of how they dress is good advice...

Now you see how it works. The Lord Bwana talks about we, then ooopsy switches to I.

Of course if one reads back the above it is lacking in logic. But logic well come now Bwana is about pronouncing subjective feelings on his followers. Logic is not his strong suit.

Whether one can draw definitive statistical proof or not as to the mode of clothing and whether it triggers sexual responses has nothing to do with whether advising anyone man or woman that being aware of how they dress is good advice. In fact it is such a classic example of the lack of Doggy Doo's logic and need to turn everything into an either or equation that his absurdity speaks for itself.

Common sense something the politically appropriate Doggy of the Dark seems to lack, would tell us being aware of our appearance and how it may attract negative or positive behaviour can help us be proactive in avoiding misunderstandings.

But then in Black Dog's case we write off psychology, psychiatry, alternative dispute resolution approaches, marriage and relationship insight counseling-we just throw them all out because Bwana Doggy has made his pronouncement and interestingly uses the exact same reasoning the tobacco industry used to deny cancer is caused by smoking.

Oooooh how appropriate.

Tee hee. Black Dog has stated it for all to see, he needs evidence wearing spandex causes men to have erections.

I am working on it. I right now have twenty men locked in a room and we walk through women in various attire and measure their flacidity and blood flow.

Tyra Banks is assisting. We are using her models and Mr. Jay actually has been quite helpful in explaining what he thinks is ticky tacky attire or what makes a slut. He has me figured out to a tee hee hee hee hee.

[Black Dog]

Oh look his Majesty, the Bawana, The Doggy of the Dark....there but for the Grace of the Almighty, the Annointed One Appointed As Purveryor of all that is acceptable has pronounced:

"It's pretty clear from the links you posted that it's not clear how much of a contributing factor it is or whether we're dealing with post-hoc rationalizations."

There you go. The Doggy can't understand so its not clear. His brain can't imagine of a range of perceptions between his favourite colour black and the favourite colour of Aryans, white.

He pronounces in one sweeping statement because its not clear to him, its not clear for us all. Why thank you Lord Bwana for thinking for me and telling me what must be.

The point of those articles was not to provide the Lord Bwana with a simplistic black and white answer but to show there is a range of perception between those who can control their pee pees and those who can not. No more no less and that because some can not, it might be pro-active in some cases to avoid behaviour that might be misinterpreted by some but certainly not all. No where in the studies did it blame women if they do not wear certain clothing. No where did it suggest their individual choice to decide should not exist.

Oh but read now how the Lord Bwana purveyor of all thoughts for us all talks in the Roral prerogative as he states:

....we can't really draw too much of a conclusion from this and I certainly don't think the evidence presented is sufficient to conclude that telling women to change or be aware of how they dress is good advice...

Now you see how it works. The Lord Bwana talks about we, then ooopsy switches to I.

Of course if one reads back the above it is lacking in logic. But logic well come now Bwana is about pronouncing subjective feelings on his followers. Logic is not his strong suit.

You might want to revisit this.

Whether one can draw definitive statistical proof or not as to the mode of clothing and whether it triggers sexual responses has nothing to do with whether advising anyone man or woman that being aware of how they dress is good advice.

Actually it does. If there's no indication that how one dresses is a key element of sexual assault, then advising women how to dress to avoid it is not good advice.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Black Dog

[Boges]

Might as well have the Mods change the name of this thread to Slutty Clothes and it's relationship to the likelihood of rape.

[Guest American Woman]

If there's no indication that how one dresses is a key element of sexual assault, then advising women how to dress to avoid it is not good advice.

I see. So it has to be a "key" element in order to make young girls/women aware of it. If it's not a key element, it shall not be brought up in discussions concerning rape/date rape and risk factors that young girls/women should be aware of. Young girls shall not be told that how they dress may give men the wrong perception of them, which may lead to men of such a mindset to commit a sexual assault - because of course the logical conclusion is that men with such a mindset, men who would think that women who are dressed provocatively want sex, would never act on their beliefs. Their beliefs are simply their beliefs, which they quietly hold within themselves at all times, never letting it affect their actions or their judgment - even when intoxicated. To think otherwise is to blame women for rape.

That's quite the mindset. *

*Cue the "you're pedantic!" response and/or the favorite second grader's crybaby response - "no one on this playground forum likes you!"

Edited September 6, 2012 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

I see. So it has to be a "key" element in order to make young girls/women aware of it.

Way to ignore my earlier response. But I guess you can't resist a good drive-by at a strawman of your own making.

If it's not a key element, it shall not be brought up in discussions concerning rape/date rape and risk factors that young girls/women should be aware of. Young girls shall not be told that how they dress may give men the wrong perception of them, which may lead to men of such a mindset to commit a sexual assault - because of course the logical conclusion is that men with such a mindset, men who would think that women who are dressed provocatively want sex, would never act on their beliefs.

Based on all of this, we can assume you would tell girls not to dress too slutty (lest they give the wrong impression about their sexual availability) or too conservatively (lest they give the impression they are submissive and thus easy marks). Nor should they drink or be around people, especially men, who are drinking. Don't express too much interest in a man, lest he take it too far and rape you, but don't be too coy either because if you mix signals, he might rape you. If on a date, don't let them pay for your date, don't let them drive. In fact it's probably best of young women continue to be brought up in a climate of absolute fear for their own safety.

That's quite the mindset.

*Cue the "you're pedantic!" response and/or the favorite second grader's crybaby response - "no one on this playground forum likes you!"

No you're not being pedantic here, but your other default mode: dense.

[Guest American Woman]

Oh look his Majesty, the Bawana, The Doggy of the Dark....there but for the Grace of the Almighty, the Annointed One Appointed As Purveryor of all that is acceptable has pronounced:

"It's pretty clear from the links you posted that it's not clear how much of a contributing factor it is or whether we're dealing with post-hoc rationalizations."

Well, if it's not clear how much of a contributing factor it is, then it must not be discussed. Young girls and women should not be informed that some men wrongly think this way, and thus be able to make a decision on how to dress or how to act, accordingly. They should not be told that provocative clothing sometimes sends a mixed message, and mixed messages sometimes lead to sexual assault, therefore they should be sure to strongly, clearly let their feelings about sex be known. That's all very bad, and it puts the blame on women.

The point of those articles was not to provide the Lord Bwana with a simplistic black and white answer but to show there is a range of perception between those who can control their pee pees and those who can not. No more no less and that because some can not, it might be pro-active in some cases to avoid behaviour that might be misinterpreted by some but certainly not all. No where in the studies did it blame women if they do not wear certain clothing. No where did it suggest their individual choice to decide should not exist.

Nope. Not at all. The purpose is to inform and educate, so young girls and women are in the best possible position to protect themselves and keep themselves safe regardless of their dress. For the life of me, I can't see how anyone can comprehend that as "women who dress provocatively are to blame" or that it's telling young girls/women how to dress. Seems to me those who want to keep this information on the Q-T are doing young girls and women a disservice.

Common sense something the politically appropriate Doggy of the Dark seems to lack, would tell us being aware of our appearance and how it may attract negative or positive behaviour can help us be proactive in avoiding misunderstandings.

Exactly. And that's what university literature informing students about the danger of rape/date rape are doing - teaching young girls/women how to be proactive in avoiding misunderstandings and how to deal head on with what sometimes results in mixed messages.

Edited September 6, 2012 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

Nope. Not at all. The purpose is to inform and educate, so young girls and women are in the best possible position to protect themselves and keep themselves safe regardless of their dress. For the life of me, I can't see how anyone can comprehend that as "women who dress provocatively are to blame" or that it's telling young girls/women how to dress.

Right, you're just telling girls that if they dress provocatively, they stand a strong chance of getting raped. But you're not telling them how they should dress, no sir. You're not saying, you're just saying is all.

Seems to me those who want to keep this information on the Q-T are doing young girls and women a disservice.

Oh, it's pretty clear that there's no shortage of people who are trumpeting the idea that girls who dress like sluts are gonna get raped and you know, that's too bad, but just the way it is.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Black Dog

[Guest American Woman]

Oh, it's pretty clear that there's no shortage of people who are trumpeting the idea that girls who dress like sluts are gonna get raped and you know, that's too bad, but just the way it is.

What's pretty clear is that there's no shortage of people with the inability to comprehend what's actually said (so at least you're not alone ), and you know, that's too bad, but that's just the way it is, so the rest of us just have to live with it.

[Black Dog]

What's pretty clear is that there's no shortage of people with the inability to comprehend what's actually said (so at least you're not alone ), and you know, that's too bad, but that's just the way it is, so the rest of us just have to live with it.

You're such a concern troll on this, it's kinda hilarious.

[Guest American Woman]

Oh, it's pretty clear that there's no shortage of people who are trumpeting the idea that girls who dress like sluts are gonna get raped and you know, that's too bad, but just the way it is.

What's also pretty clear is that there's no shortage of people who are defending men who may be more likely to commit rape, particularly date rape, because of their warped viewpoint regarding women who dress provocatively by insisting that these men would never let their mindset affect their actions or their judgment - even when intoxicated. Because, apparently, all men of that warped mindset are such noble creatures.

[Black Dog]

What's also pretty clear is that there's no shortage of people who are defending men who may be more likely to commit rape, particularly date rape, because of their warped viewpoint regarding women who dress provocatively by insisting that these men would never let their mindset affect their actions or their judgment - even when intoxicated. Because, apparently, all men of that warped mindset are such noble creatures.

Busy at the old strawman factory today, I see. You should hire some workers, help with your country's economy.

Upon further inspection, maybe not: these strawmen of yours are pretty low-quality, even by strawman standards.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Black Dog