You may hate Rob Ford . . .

[Guest American Woman]

So you agree that how one dresses has little bearing on whether or not they'll be sexually assaulted, then. Great.

"Little bearing?" I didn't say how much bearing it had, only that I thought it could have some bearing, and since you are not saying "no bearing," I can only assume that you agree with me.

Probably not, but that doesn't mean I'd have a rational basis upon which to base my objections.

So you would object to the way your daughter dresses with no rational basis?

[Black Dog]

"Little bearing?" I didn't say how much bearing it had, only that I thought it could have some bearing, and since you are not saying "no bearing," I can only assume that you agree with me.

You know, piddly, overly pedantic ticky-tacky crap like this is why no one likes you.

So you would object to the way your daughter dresses with no rational basis?

Why is that so difficult to imagine? I gather you have kids and I bet you behave irrationally when it comes to them all the time. Most parents do.

[Guest American Woman]

That's disgusting.

Really? Disgusting, how?

The real question is are you comfortable if your son gets drunk and rapes a girl, as your statement above suggests?

Is there something wrong with your ability to comprehend what people say? Seriously. That's about as ignorant a statement as I've ever seen. :angry:

Where in the world was it so much as remotely suggested that one would be "comfortable" with it? The fact that it might be more likely to happen doesn't JUSTIFY it.

What the girl is wearing is irrelevant.

Not necessarily. Not if the boy thinks how she is dressed is a signal - and one adds drugs/alcohol to the situation.

What the girl is wearing is irrelevant regarding blame and guilt - that all falls on the guy. But studies show that provocative clothing may increase the chance of date rape. Again. That has nothing to do with blame, guilt, asking for it. It is, however, the reality regarding the chance of it happening.

Rape is rape. Teaching boys, as you are, that it's okay to rape a girl if they're drunk or she's dressed 'provocatively' is absolutely disgusting.

What's disgusting is your ignorant accusation. Seriously. Retract it, or I'll report it.

Edited September 4, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

You know, piddly, overly pedantic ticky-tacky crap like this is why no one likes you.

Awwww, gee. No one likes me? That's news to me.

There was nothing "pedantic" (your favorite word!) about it. There is a huge difference between "little bearing" and "no bearing." They are two different things. So care to clarify what your position is instead of having a childish tantrum?

Why is that so difficult to imagine? I gather you have kids and I bet you behave irrationally when it comes to them all the time. Most parents do.

Generally speaking, my reasons for prohibiting something wasn't "because I said so." I had reasons. I'm guessing you have some reasons of your own, but are just not coming forth with them.

[Black Dog]

There was nothing "pedantic" (your favorite word!) about it. There is a huge difference between "little bearing" and "no bearing." They are two different things. So care to clarify what your position is instead of having a childish tantrum?

Of course it's pedantry.

How about you back up your point that provocative clothing increases the risk of rape.

Generally speaking, my reasons for prohibiting something wasn't "because I said so." I had reasons. I'm guessing you have some reasons of your own, but are just not coming forth with them.

I don't have a daughter, so this is all irrelevant.

[Guest American Woman]

Of course it's pedantry.

Really. So you don't know the difference between "little bearing" and "no bearing?" You honestly don't realize that there's a difference? If you don't, that doesn't make me "pedantic," it makes me more knowledgeable.

How about you back up your point that provocative clothing increases the risk of rape.

Right after you clarify your position - do you claim it has little bearing or no bearing?

[Black Dog]

Really. So you don't know the difference between "little bearing" and "no bearing?" You honestly don't realize that there's a difference? If you don't, that doesn't make me "pedantic," it makes me more knowledgeable.

"A pedant is a person who is excessively concerned with formalism and precision, or who makes a show of his or her learning."

Yup.

Right after you clarify your position - do you claim it has little bearing or no bearing?

I'd say no bearing. No: let's see this evidence you've amassed.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Black Dog

[cybercoma]

Of course it's pedantry.

How about you back up your point that provocative clothing increases the risk of rape.

She doesn't have to because she can't. She wants you to prove that it doesn't increase rape, even though she knows full well that you can't prove a negative.

Hey American Woman, prove to me that there isn't a tree somewhere on the planet that opens to reveal a diamond that weighs 500lbs when you utter a single word in one of the many languages spoken on earth. I'll wait while you go speak every word in every langauge to every tree on earth.

If you don't get how burden of proof works, then stop posting here because there's no point discussing anything with you.

edited to add: :rolleyes: a bajillion times over!

Edited September 4, 2012 by cybercoma

[Black Dog]

ANYWAY. Back to the subject of the thread, Ford's day in court is today; here's a run down of the whole affair.

[guyser]

You are gutless Bleeding Heart. You come on here to sneer at someone thinking you are superior to them and then

you expect me to defend your right to do so.

Sneering might be a bit much, but one thing for sure, I do know most people are smarter than the Mayor and his niece.

Sadly, Krista inherited her unc's smarts. Poor girl, best stick w lingerie football.

Edited September 5, 2012 by guyser

[Rue]

Sneering might be a bit much, but one thing for sure, I do know most people are smarter than the Mayor and his niece.

Sadly, Krista inherited her unc's smarts. Poor girl, best stick w lingerie football.

Teee hee look who has joined the giggle fest against the Fords. Hee hee hee.

I am not sure what is more funny you trying to tee hee along with Black Dog or his yelping in fear over American women.

Lol.

Go help Black Dog will write his book on women's clothing.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Rue

[Black Dog]

Teee hee look who has joined the giggle fest against the Fords. Hee hee hee.

I am not sure what is more funny you trying to tee hee along with Black Dog or his yelping in fear over American women.

Lol.

Go help Black Dog will write his book on women's clothing.

Time to re-up your meds, bro.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Black Dog

[Rue]

She doesn't have to because she can't. She wants you to prove that it doesn't increase rape, even though she knows full well that you can't prove a negative.

Hey American Woman, prove to me that there isn't a tree somewhere on the planet that opens to reveal a diamond that weighs 500lbs when you utter a single word in one of the many languages spoken on earth. I'll wait while you go speak every word in every langauge to every tree on earth.

If you don't get how burden of proof works, then stop posting here because there's no point discussing anything with you.

edited to add: :rolleyes: a bajillion times over!

Your attempt to rewrite what she said and the rolly eyes is par for the course. Tell me the rolling eyes is that like a sneer or more like a giggle.

I mean it must be something to walk around with your ass packed tight with that smugness towards anyone you disagree with.

Listen up Clarence Darrow, your attempt to put words in her mouth didn't get a response and nor will it. Her words like Ford's speak for themselves. No matter how you twist them neither suggested nor claimed wearing certain clothing causes rape.

See your little pee brain can't fathom degrees of perception. All you can fathom is something is black or its white.

What she said and I said and the original Ford said was that women know they live in a world of double standards and have to be careful what they wear in certain places and times.

How about you and the women's clothing expert Black Dog and his knowledge of women's attire and daughters and your knowledge of both and Guyster's run along.

Now you want proof do you? Oh come on here it is then. All three of you wear g strongs and then parade down young street. When you get a reaction at how saggy your buttoxes are and how many car accidents you have caused, do tell us how there was no cause and effect and you need proof that your bum bums caused horror and reaction. Then lecture me on it ok?

Not only are you a fashion expert but now you are a lawyer.

Dang you are a a trio of pathetic punch and judy fluctuating pirates. That is something like piddly only more wee wee in the wagon. Those who call others names, are of course subject to them. So there. Hiss and hiss again to you and your colleagues in women's attire. Come on now, lets all wince along at each others petunias. Go one, tell me I am being pendantic. Hee hee hee. I thought I was being snitty giggly.

By the way tell Black Dog I want to have babies with American Women and have them live next to him and moon him four times daily. Woo woo hee hee. Giggle.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Rue

[Black Dog]

Your attempt to rewrite what she said and the rolly eyes is par for the course. Tell me the rolling eyes is that like a sneer or more like a giggle.

I mean it must be something to walk around with your ass packed tight with that smugness towards anyone you disagree with.

Listen up Clarence Darrow, your attempt to put words in her mouth didn't get a response and nor will it. Her words like Ford's speak for themselves. No matter how you twist them neither suggested nor claimed wearing certain clothing causes rape.

See your little pee brain can't fathom degrees of perception. All you can fathom is something is black or its white.

What she said and I said and the original Ford said was that women know they live in a world of double standards and have to be careful what they wear in certain places and times.

How about you and the women's clothing expert Black Dog and his knowledge of women's attire and daughters and your knowledge of both and Guyster's run along.

All three of you wear g strongs and parade down young street. When you get a reaction at how saggy your buttoxes are and how many car accidents you have caused, do tell us how there was no cause and effect and you need proof then lecture me on it ok?

Not only are you a fashion expert but now you are a lawyer.

Dang you are a pathetic punch of prancing pirates. That is something like piddly only more wee wee in the wagon. Those who call others names, are of course subject to them. Come on now, lets all wince along at each others petunias. Go one, tell me I am being pendantic. Hee hee hee. I thought I was being snitty giggly.

www.zoloft.com/

[guyser]

Teee hee look who has joined the giggle fest against the Fords. Hee hee hee.

Glad you enjoy a good old giggle fest. The Fords sure do provide a lot that is to giggle over. Dumb people do that.

I am not sure what is more funny you trying to tee hee along with Black Dog or his yelping in fear over American women.

Wow, count yourself as smart as the Fords then since I havent said one word in the Black Dog vs AW debate.

Go help Black Dog will write his book on women's clothing.

Naw, Im doing the photos, much more fun.

I even have a photo of Krista dressed in lingerie , or 'whore clothes' as she puts it.

Got another mindless off topic rant for us again? They sure are fun, rants about nothing popping up are always a good read, and youu've provided two for us lately. BD is right, better up the meds.

[Black Dog]

Sounds like Ford is getting completely reamed by Clayton Ruby today. So far, Ford has copped to not reading the Councillor's handbook or attending orientation (his reason being his dad was an MPP so Rob figured he already knew all there was to know about the rules for politicians), not reading the Municipal Conflict of Interest Act and not bothering to ask staff if there was any potential conflict in soliciting donations for his foundation on official city letterhead. Amazing stuff.

[guyser]

What she said and I said and the original Ford said was that women know they live in a world of double standards and have to be careful what they wear in certain places and times.

Hmm....I wonder why Krista, Doug and Mayor Ford are all apologizing, all on the same page being that Kristas comments were dumb..,....but here you are defedning even what they (ya know, the idiot ones) agree was stupid?

Yikes

How about you and the women's clothing expert Black Dog and his knowledge of women's attire and daughters and your knowledge of both and Guyster's run along.

Well , at least we can keep up with things and write coherent thoughts. Rise up to our level and you too can see the light.

[guyser]

Sounds like Ford is getting completely reamed by Clayton Ruby today. So far, Ford has copped to not reading the Councillor's handbook or attending orientation (his reason being his dad was an MPP so Rob figured he already knew all there was to know about the rules for politicians), not reading the Municipal Conflict of Interest Act and not bothering to ask staff if there was any potential conflict in soliciting donations for his foundation on official city letterhead. Amazing stuff.

Ruby should rip him a new one.

He had admitted to the above before the trial, and why he didnt read any of it is anyones guess.

Inability to read may be one reason. Pomposity is another.

Worst $3500 he didnt spend.

Looks good on him if he gets the boot, and chances are he will, it cannot be passed off as inadvertant, or of merely a minor agregiance, but quite rightly because I'm Rob Ford dammit!.

When you think he has done something dumb, all you have to do is wait a day and another dumb thing surfaces. He should have quit when he got scared by the Warrior Princess.

On a side note, he wont be hounded going into KFC when he isnt the mayor.

Edited September 5, 2012 by guyser

[cybercoma]

Your attempt to rewrite what she said and the rolly eyes is par for the course. Tell me the rolling eyes is that like a sneer or more like a giggle.

I mean it must be something to walk around with your ass packed tight with that smugness towards anyone you disagree with.

Listen up Clarence Darrow, your attempt to put words in her mouth didn't get a response and nor will it. Her words like Ford's speak for themselves. No matter how you twist them neither suggested nor claimed wearing certain clothing causes rape.

See your little pee brain can't fathom degrees of perception. All you can fathom is something is black or its white.

What she said and I said and the original Ford said was that women know they live in a world of double standards and have to be careful what they wear in certain places and times.

How about you and the women's clothing expert Black Dog and his knowledge of women's attire and daughters and your knowledge of both and Guyster's run along.

Now you want proof do you? Oh come on here it is then. All three of you wear g strongs and then parade down young street. When you get a reaction at how saggy your buttoxes are and how many car accidents you have caused, do tell us how there was no cause and effect and you need proof that your bum bums caused horror and reaction. Then lecture me on it ok?

Not only are you a fashion expert but now you are a lawyer.

Dang you are a a trio of pathetic punch and judy fluctuating pirates. That is something like piddly only more wee wee in the wagon. Those who call others names, are of course subject to them. So there. Hiss and hiss again to you and your colleagues in women's attire. Come on now, lets all wince along at each others petunias. Go one, tell me I am being pendantic. Hee hee hee. I thought I was being snitty giggly.

By the way tell Black Dog I want to have babies with American Women and have them live next to him and moon him four times daily. Woo woo hee hee. Giggle.

All that typing and still no academic peer reviewed research showing that the way a woman dresses increases her risk of rape. With how certain you two are, you would think it would be easy to present. The fact that you can't speaks volumes. You'll just keep on keepin on with telling women what they can or can't do with their bodies like a good little conservative. Don't let the facts get in the way.

Let me ask you this, big man. When a woman dresses in a way that you consider "slutty," do suddenly get the urge to rape her? Let me know because if you do, I think you pose a risk to society and should probably be locked up.

Edited September 5, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest American Woman]

Hmm....I wonder why Krista, Doug and Mayor Ford are all apologizing, all on the same page being that Kristas comments were dumb..,....but here you are defedning even what they (ya know, the idiot ones) agree was stupid?

Yikes

The way she said it, how she put it out there, was stupid, and her apology indicates that she is not backing down on her sentiment:

In a statement issued to the Toronto Sun, Krista Ford said, “What I meant to say was that women should take measures to protect themselves and be very careful not to place themselves or allow themselves to be placed in vulnerable positions that may compromise their safety,” Ford stated in her apology...

I won't put the onus on women and say that they "should" take measures to protect themselves, but it doesn't hurt to put it out there that there are some measures women can take if they are so inclined.

So I would say that she's apologizing for saying what she meant the way she did. She's in the public eye, her family is in the public eye, so it makes sense that they would all try to do "damage control."

But the reality is, some boys/men do have the mistaken belief that how a woman dresses is an indication of her "willingness" and "desire" to have sex, and especially when intoxicated, such a mindset has the potential to result in sexual assault, date rape in particular, which is indeed rape. It's one of the reasons, in pamphlets educating university students about the dangers of rape, again, including date rape (which is prevalent among university students), they specifically say that how a woman dresses is not an indication of sexual desire or consent. They are trying to get that message out there; educate the students. But unless/until everyone gets it, provocative dress does affect the likelihood of rape.

I would like to add, again, in light of the ugly, untrue comments that have been made, that there's a huge difference between discussing factors that may increase the chance of sexual assault, only with women's safety in mind - and blaming women who chose to dress provocatively for being sexually assaulted.

Edited September 5, 2012 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

But the reality is, some boys/men do have the mistaken belief that how a woman dresses is an indication of her "willingness" and "desire" to have sex, and especially when intoxicated, such a mindset has the potential to result in sexual assault, date rape in particular, which is indeed rape. It's one of the reasons, in pamphlets educating university students about the dangers of rape, again, including date rape (which is prevalent among university students), they specifically say that how a woman dresses is not an indication of sexual desire or consent. They are trying to get that message out there; educate the students. But unless/until everyone gets it, provocative dress does affect the likelihood of rape.

You've been asked to back this up before. I'll ask again.

[guyser]

The way she said it, how she put it out there, was stupid, and her apology indicates that she is not backing down on her sentiment:

In a statement issued to the Toronto Sun, Krista Ford said, “What I meant to say was that women should take measures to protect themselves and be very careful not to place themselves or allow themselves to be placed in vulnerable positions that may compromise their safety,” Ford stated in her apology...

She shot herself in the foot with the 'whore ' thing and she doesnt know it. I honestly do not believe she understands what she said, in its entirety, was not proper.

Mace is illegal, a whore dress is not an invitation (nor have you suggested it is or anyone else here) to sexual assault or rape so we are left with stay alert and take self defence classes.

To know the family is to know they all make horrible choices on pretty much everything they do. Why? Who knows, probably in the genes , and now passed to Krista. (Who BTW is not really in the public eye but rather a family member of a FOrd and gets attention.

So I would say that she's apologizing for saying what she meant the way she did. She's in the public eye, her family is in the public eye, so it makes sense that they would all try to do "damage control."

Someone coached here why she should offer an apology. My opinion, but past history and family genetics says she didnt have a clue why she should.

But the reality is, some boys/men do have the mistaken belief that how a woman dresses is an indication of her "willingness" and "desire" to have sex, and especially when intoxicated, such a mindset has the potential to result in sexual assault, date rape in particular, which is indeed rape. It's one of the reasons, in pamphlets educating university students about the dangers of rape, again, including date rape (which is prevalent among university students), they specifically say that how a woman dresses is not an indication of sexual desire or consent. They are trying to get that message out there; educate the students. But unless/until everyone gets it, provocative dress does affect the likelihood of rape.

People dont get it, never will.

Men are the worst, and in large part that will never change. There will always be predator men out there looking for a woman to exploit.

As for the bold part, I am not in agreement, as my understanding is that dress has virtually zero play in rape, but power and control are.

I would like to add, again, in light of the ugly, untrue comments that have been made, that there's a huge difference between discussing factors that may increase the chance of sexual assault, only with women's safety in mind - and blaming women who chose to dress provocatively for being sexually assaulted.

Blame the victim is the worst kind of thinking there is.

[Guest American Woman]

As for the bold part, I am not in agreement, as my understanding is that dress has virtually zero play in rape, but power and control are.

I can't get inside Krista Ford's head, so all I have to go on are the words in her apology. Yes, the way she presented it was undeniably stupid, but the intent, what she says was her intent, puts it in a different light - and what I happen to believe she meant. But all any of us have is our own opinion about that, so it's rather fruitless to speculate further.

So putting that aside, I believe your understanding is based on the 'dark alley, violent act' stereotype of rape, but as I emphasized, date rape is also rape, and accounts for the highest percentage of rapes. While stranger rape and date rape are both rape, there are different variables involved as to how and why they occur; different patterns, so it stands to reason that the mindset some men have would be a variable in whether or not they would commit date rape. Add intoxication, and it further increases the likelihood of the mindset becoming the action.

Edited September 5, 2012 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

So putting that aside, I believe your understanding is based on the 'dark alley, violent act' stereotype of rape, but as I emphasized, date rape is also rape, and accounts for the highest percentage of rapes. While stranger rape and date rape are both rape, there are different variables involved as to how and why they occur; different patterns, so it stands to reason that the mindset some men have would be a variable in whether or not they would commit date rape. Add intoxication, and it further increases the likelihood of the mindset becoming the action.

You said:

What the girl is wearing is irrelevant regarding blame and guilt - that all falls on the guy. But studies show that provocative clothing may increase the chance of date rape. Again. That has nothing to do with blame, guilt, asking for it. It is, however, the reality regarding the chance of it happening.

What studies? Link or GTFO.

[cybercoma]

provocative dress does affect the likelihood of rape.

There it is again. Until you back it up with some evidence, I'm going to hold this claim with a healthy dose of skepticism.