Wisconsin Shikh temple shooting

[Guest Derek L]

I don't think it's so positive that he got shot "well."

Of course not, but he still did his job in the face of danger......That's positive and after he recovers, I hope he gets a medal.

[Wilber]

One thing that strikes me about this thread -

One white guy full of hate kills 6 Sikhs, and America is full of hate. One guy out of 312 million. But when 19 Muslims killed almost 2000 Americans, without one gun I might add, it wasn't a reflection on Islam. Oh, no. The Muslims who want to do away with us are just a small minority, and anyone who doesn't recognize that is full of hate. As one guy with a gun out of 312 million Americans is proof of a huge problem in the U.S. Of course the fact that the Oklahoma City bomber also managed to kill a few people without a gun seems to be forgotten, too. Just ban guns - and get Americans to hold hands and sing Kumbya - and problem solved. The world will be full of peace and harmony.

Sikhs aren't Muslims. As a matter of fact, they have a history of not liking each other very much.

[Signals.Cpl]

Sikhs aren't Muslims. As a matter of fact, they have a history of not liking each other very much.

I think her point was different. The way I understand what American Women said was that when 20 terrorists killed 2000+ people there were many who said they did not represent islam and , while 1 guy kills 20 people suddenly he represents America and all the legal law abiding gun owners in the US. There is a double standard and if people just look it becomes pretty self evident.

[Wilber]

I think her point was different. The way I understand what American Women said was that when 20 terrorists killed 2000+ people there were many who said they did not represent islam and , while 1 guy kills 20 people suddenly he represents America and all the legal law abiding gun owners in the US. There is a double standard and if people just look it becomes pretty self evident.

That would of course be a double standard.

[Guest Derek L]

I think her point was different. The way I understand what American Women said was that when 20 terrorists killed 2000+ people there were many who said they did not represent islam and , while 1 guy kills 20 people suddenly he represents America and all the legal law abiding gun owners in the US. There is a double standard and if people just look it becomes pretty self evident.

I agree with your assessment of her post. Well said.

[Guest American Woman]

Sikhs aren't Muslims. As a matter of fact, they have a history of not liking each other very much.

I realize that.

I think her point was different. The way I understand what American Women said was that when 20 terrorists killed 2000+ people there were many who said they did not represent islam and , while 1 guy kills 20 people suddenly he represents America and all the legal law abiding gun owners in the US. There is a double standard and if people just look it becomes pretty self evident.

That's it exactly.

[waldo]

Exactly.........Meanwhile, over 250 million private firearms didn’t kill anybody today

citation request

[waldo]

Regardless (as you two obviously won‘t provide sources), of the 250+ million, legal, private firearms within the United States, what percentage of said guns were used to kill a person yesterday, what percent will kill people today and tomorrow?

Are you suggesting that there have been 250 million gun deaths today in the States? 100 million? 50 million? 1 million? 500 000? 100 000? 10000? 5000? 1000? 500? 100? 50?

How many of the over 250 million legal guns killed someone on Sunday?

are you suggesting that there have been 250 million gun deaths prevented today in the States? 100 million? 50 million? 1 million? 500 000? 100 000? 10000? 5000? 1000? 500? 100? 50?

how many of the over 250 million legal guns prevented someone from dying on Sunday?

[Guest Derek L]

citation request

Two Government sources from near 15-20 years ago:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

http://web.archive.org/web/20071214070953/http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/guic.pdf

They put estimates ranging from ~200 -~220 million back then..........And gun sales have skyrocketed post 9/11 and Obama since.

Now are you going to suggest that there have been that many firearms deaths yesterday? In week? A month? A Year?

[WWWTT]

That's it exactly.

There is a saying that goes "a couple of bad apples ruin it for everyone"

But not if your a gun owner.

If you travel by plane(or use any transportation in some countries) or cross the border things have drastically changed since 911.Would you deny this?

In other words what you are complaining about and reality are two different things.

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

Of course not, but he still did his job in the face of danger......That's positive and after he recovers, I hope he gets a medal.

He is truly deserving - shot at least 8 times, yet he waved off officers who were going to help him so they could help the people inside. I think this is worth noting, too: In the wake of the shooting New York-based Sikhs for Justice has pledged [a] $10,000 award to Murphy. Very good article about him: Wisconsin Temple Shooting Hero Cop Brian Murphy Shot 8 Times, Waved Off Aid

[Guest American Woman]

There is a saying that goes "a couple of bad apples ruin it for everyone"

But not if your a gun owner.

If you travel by plane(or use any transportation in some countries) or cross the border things have drastically changed since 911.Would you deny this?

In other words what you are complaining about and reality are two different things.

What I'm complaining about pointing out is reality.

[WWWTT]

What I'm complaining about pointing out is reality.

Prove it.

WWWTT

[Signals.Cpl]

Prove it.

WWWTT

Those attacks in England and Spain, as well as the attacks in the US were committed by a group of people who hold the same faith, yet when those attacks happen there is always that large segment of western society which works really hard to separate the people who commit the crimes from the innocent. While at the same time every time there is a mass killing the same segment of society cry for strict gun control.

Is there concrete proof that gun control=less crime?

[WWWTT]

Those attacks in England and Spain, as well as the attacks in the US were committed by a group of people who hold the same faith, yet when those attacks happen there is always that large segment of western society which works really hard to separate the people who commit the crimes from the innocent. While at the same time every time there is a mass killing the same segment of society cry for strict gun control.

Is there concrete proof that gun control=less crime?

I believe you misunderstood my comment.

As well it was directed to American Woman and not you.

No offense but I do not want to get side tracked here.

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

I believe you misunderstood my comment.

As well it was directed to American Woman and not you.

No offense but I do not want to get side tracked here.

If you think he misunderstood your comment, then I think you misunderstood mine. His response was right on.

I'll just add that you yourself said that you "believe there is too much hate in the U.S." Would you say that you 'believe that there is too much hate and too many weapons within Islam!' in reaction to a Muslim killing a westerner? Would you relate it to the whole? Or would you tell anyone who was criticizing Islam that it's only a small percentage of radicals, not Islam?

Edited August 7, 2012 by American Woman

[WWWTT]

I'll just add that you yourself said that you "believe there is too much hate in the U.S." Would you say that you 'believe that there is too much hate and too many weapons within Islam!' in reaction to a Muslim killing a westerner? Would you relate it to the whole? Or would you tell anyone who was criticizing Islam that it's only a small percentage of radicals, not Islam?

Nope it is you that misunderstands my comment in regards to yours.

I believe what I was getting at is that when there is gun violence in the States,gun laws do not change.

However if there is foreign terrorism then you can bet the farm that there will be changes in regards to travel,visas,passport requirements,etc,etc in an attempt to prevent from the re occurrence.

As far as Islam goes that should be let for a more appropriate thread.

I am not saying I do not have an opinion,but this instance happened in the US and what you are suggesting is a little to far separated to the recent events.

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

Nope it is you that misunderstands my comment in regards to yours.

I believe what I was getting at is that when there is gun violence in the States,gun laws do not change.

However if there is foreign terrorism then you can bet the farm that there will be changes in regards to travel,visas,passport requirements,etc,etc in an attempt to prevent from the re occurrence.

As far as Islam goes that should be let for a more appropriate thread.

I am not saying I do not have an opinion,but this instance happened in the US and what you are suggesting is a little to far separated to the recent events.

It's not separated at all. You made the comment that "there is too much hate in the U.S." I doubt you would ever say "there is too much hate within Islam" even in reaction to the almost 2000 Americans killed by Muslims on 9-11. Or do you believe that there is too much hate in Islam? It's an appropriate question in light of your judgment of the U.S. - and the bending over backwards of so many to point out that only a very small percentage of Muslims have that kind of hate. So what's your answer? How do you think most people would answer? There's the proof you were asking for.

[bud]

islamophobia is a problem in the states. racism usually happens due to ignorance and when you have idiots who can't even tell the difference between muslims and sikhs, then it takes it to a new level. here is a sample of americans:

[Signals.Cpl]

islamophobia is a problem in the states. racism usually happens due to ignorance and when you have idiots who can't even tell the difference between muslims and sikhs, then it takes it to a new level. here is a sample of americans:

I was wondering when you were going to show up...now how long would it take to turn this in to an anti-Israel thread?

[The_Squid]

"ban guns".

Its kind of funny that no one has said guns should be banned, but pro-gunners claim that this is said and argue against it. But it wasn't said. No one said it. This is straight out of your hysterical imaginations.

[bud]

I was wondering when you were going to show up...now how long would it take to turn this in to an anti-Israel thread?

i see that you're still licking your wounds from other threads. time to let it go and stop feeling so threatened by me.

lets talk about racism towards muslims in the united states.

Muslim Discrimination Cases Disproportionately High In U.S.

there has been a 150 percent jump in workplace discrimination against Muslims, often over religious dress and worship schedules, while Muslim youth can often become the victims of school yard bullying.

"In each city and town where I have met with (Muslim) leaders, I have been struck by the fear that pervades their lives," Perez told the panel.

link

[BC_chick]

It's not separated at all. You made the comment that "there is too much hate in the U.S." I doubt you would ever say "there is too much hate within Islam" even in reaction to the almost 2000 Americans killed by Muslims on 9-11. Or do you believe that there is too much hate in Islam? It's an appropriate question in light of your judgment of the U.S. - and the bending over backwards of so many to point out that only a very small percentage of Muslims have that kind of hate. So what's your answer? How do you think most people would answer? There's the proof you were asking for.

Well, you know the flip-side of that hypocrisy would be to say this guy is not representative of America and its culture, but Muslim terrorism IS representative of Muslim culture.

'Cause you know there are plenty of that type of hypocrit around too...

Yourself excluded of course.

[Guest American Woman]

Well, you know the flip-side of that hypocrisy would be to say this guy is not representative of America and its culture, but Muslim terrorism IS representative of Muslim culture.

Duh. Ya think? And the people who are quick to point it out are the people who have no problem condemning the U.S./Americans as a whole. You think that just might be my point?

'Cause you know there are plenty of that type of hypocrit around too...

Yourself excluded of course.

Watch what you are ignorantly, falsely accusing me of there, sweetie.

[bud]

Watch what you are ignorantly, falsely accusing me of there, sweetie.

sounds like a threat, sweetie.