Deficit Continues to Shrink

[Moonbox]

I said it was spending not the money that changed hands. If you are going to misquote me then do it right at least.

Misquote you?

GDP is all the spending that takes place in a nation. Public or Private. It is blind it doesn't matter if the spending is on oil pipe line bursts or on food for the poor. It is just a number that represents how much money changed hands in that country.

That's no misquote buddy. This is just you back peddling now.

Consumer spending accounts for well over 60% of the GDP in the USA!!!

Who's writing the boneheaded comments now?

*sigh*. Go back to my last quotation of you. What on earth does consumer confidence have to do with calculating GDP? (Hint: Nothing).

Edited August 2, 2012 by Moonbox

[Signals.Cpl]

Yeah,my era and my friends era..especially the 90s.

It was close to yelling bang at times.

That said, everything was cut in the 90s and all were told to make due and the economy recovered.

Libs continued in their ways of committment in the 2000s increased missions on the McGuyver thread.

Regardless the Conservative should not be given a blank cheque for incompetences in military spending.

I agree with you, giving a blank cheque to any government to waste on useless purchases hurts everyone because the taxpayers lose their hard earned money and the military gets equipment that is of little to no value. What we need is to make sure that one government does not save a pennies today while costing another government a decade in to the future dollars, and this is not restricted to the military.

[Guest Derek L]

I realize it started a lot earlier, but during the 90's the Liberals hit rock bottom and started digging when it comes to the military. It is under the Liberals that the CF had its numbers cut and budget cut but the mission tempo increased, and from what I hear going to the ranges was not much fun when you had to yell BANG to simulate "firing" your rifle because there was no money for rounds. The Liberals gutted the military while the country looked away and now the Conservatives are getting blamed for trying to bring the CF to a certain level where we can do the missions we are given.

Incorrect, the Tories slashed nearly 40% of DND’s budget in ’88 (Over a year before the Wall fell), cancelled the SSN program, retired the Trackers in ’90 without replacement and didn‘t pick up the option on additional (~18) Hornets, and then the ‘92 PC budget saw the drawdown of the 4th CMBG and the Chinooks….They had no horn to toot.

[Signals.Cpl]

Incorrect, the Tories slashed nearly 40% of DND’s budget in ’88 (Over a year before the Wall fell), cancelled the SSN program, retired the Trackers in ’90 without replacement and didn‘t pick up the option on additional (~18) Hornets, and then the ‘92 PC budget saw the drawdown of the 4th CMBG and the Chinooks….They had no horn to toot.

And then look at the 1990's and the further cutbacks while at the same time increasing the Peacekeeping tempo. You probably have a better Idea about this but the missions that were added to the plate were at the same time as the military was shrinking, less troops more missions all the while having some of the lower ranks at or below the poverty line. The Budget cuts of the 1990's are one of the reasons why I could not go and do POET in Kingston instead I have to do it in a college for 3 times as long and at the same time more than 4 times what it should cost the CF to get me qualified. All those so called cuts while saving some money at the time are now costing untold millions if not billions to fix while still leaving certain trades at the breaking point with no light at the end of the tunnel.

[Guest Derek L]

And then look at the 1990's and the further cutbacks while at the same time increasing the Peacekeeping tempo. You probably have a better Idea about this but the missions that were added to the plate were at the same time as the military was shrinking, less troops more missions all the while having some of the lower ranks at or below the poverty line. The Budget cuts of the 1990's are one of the reasons why I could not go and do POET in Kingston instead I have to do it in a college for 3 times as long and at the same time more than 4 times what it should cost the CF to get me qualified. All those so called cuts while saving some money at the time are now costing untold millions if not billions to fix while still leaving certain trades at the breaking point with no light at the end of the tunnel.

I know all to well about the 90s, as I packed it in (full time) in ‘94.……….The Tories sent the Vandoos and the RCR to the FRY, under General Mackenzie, in ’92 from Germany, never to return (to Germany)….The same time the PC Government also planned to cut 1/4th of the armies combat formations………They also agreed to Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda prior to losing the election……..

[Keepitsimple]

I know all to well about the 90s, as I packed it in (full time) in ‘94.……….The Tories sent the Vandoos and the RCR to the FRY, under General Mackenzie, in ’92 from Germany, never to return (to Germany)….The same time the PC Government also planned to cut 1/4th of the armies combat formations………They also agreed to Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda prior to losing the election……..

The point is - whether it was Liberals alone or Conservatives aided by Liberals or vice-versa, we were faced with a depleted Military that needed to be re-built for us to have a meaningful role in the world - other than cheering or sniping from the sidelines. Harper and the Conservatives were faced with that dilemna and have since taken steps to re-build not only the infrastructure - but the pride of being a member of the Armed Forces......and yes, it costs money to do so.

[WWWTT]

*sigh*. Go back to my last quotation of you. What on earth does consumer confidence have to do with calculating GDP? (Hint: Nothing).

No you go back and read what I wrote that you you were commenting about.

Better yet,just give up!

WWWTT

[Moonbox]

No you go back and read what I wrote that you you were commenting about.

You know how dumb that sounds? Here, let me try to get down to your level:

No you go back and read what I wrote about what you wrote about what I wrote about what you wrote.

There's really no point in discussing this with you further. I'll leave you on that note, but I'm sure everyone's eagerly awaiting your clever grade 3 school yard response.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Moonbox

[westguy]

yeah. real good. cut important services and people like you celebrate. this cpc government is destroying my Canada.

the government is over-staffed

[westguy]

so..... Harper Conservatives are on track, presumably, to attempt to fix their own created deficit problem, hey?

the Harper government did not create the economic meltdown that enveloped the entire western world in 2008. you anti-cons are so narrow minded

[westguy]

I think saying things are good is a little circumspect there is labour unrest, people are displeased about reforms to government programs and cuts, as well the government racked up the debt. Bringing the deficit down is a far cry from paying down the debt.

However, was paying down the debt even part of the plan?

The price of consumer goods has skyrocketted since 2008. With recent drought in the US many foodstuffs may increase further. While you can paint a picture of aresponsible government, there is still a lot left in want. Making life better for the rich at the hands of the poor isn't a good government.

Government programs should be hand in hand with poverty elimination, I don't see taxes being adjusted enough to provide the provices with the capacity for poverty reduction, nor greater subsidies for the poor. The removal of programs such as RRAP is just one example of how the government is alienating the poor.

Personal debt is also very high in Canada.

Personal debt is a personal problem. I already pay over 100,000 in income tax - surely you cant be suggesting that we should pay more?

I think passing the costs off and giving people a worse deal isn't improving the government. While some changes are needed, one still needs to see the way the government has gone about doing it, and it is one that alienates regular Canadians, and the poor.

It is also one that abuses the processess of government such as the parliamentary process.

It is also grossly negligent in efficiency.

While everything I would say in review is not negative I will fixate on the negative as they are important points of fixation, in labour interferance, underhandedness, and absence of provision of the poor through assurances.

There is still a lot of waste, government luxury is just one part of that.

Its not all just dollars and cents, there should be a social interest in mind of policy, and I don't think the government is insuring that the provinces are given the leadway. Canadians are too taxed for no social safety net.

While the removal of corporate taxes is good in the long run, there needs to be reorganization of the personal tax system, and drastic reductions in that system, with subsription based program delivery implemented.

There is still a lot of bad programs out there and a lot of bad funding that is purely porkbarrelled nonsense and political bribes. It ain't good enough and it ain't doin it in the right places. Cut perks for the rich and bring the quality of life of the poor to a relative standard though assurances from the programs to provide a streamlined equal oppourtunity program for social housing, local development and self sufficiency. The government is not insuring provision. It is not good results, they are horrible results.

[westguy]

Someone the NDP trusts, so probably the Taliban.

yes we should just treat them kinder and gentler

[westguy]

Today Bruce Carson,former Harper adviser was charged with fraud!

And you say that the NDP would trust an extremist group because they are doing the job they were elected to do?

I'm ready for my close up Mr.De Mille

charged does not mean convicted

[westguy]

Would any other government been stupid enough to slash the government's fiscal capacity as they ramped up spending? Probably not. The Conservatives created the deficit problem when Canada was already being propped up by a strong commodities market. Now it's being waved around as though they should be commended for reducing something that should have never been in the first place.

It's pretty convenient that this comes out at the same time as former aid to Stephen Harper Bruce Carson is charged with fraud by the RCMP.

But the ends justify the means, eh boys? All of this criminality is ok because they're saving the economy.

as far as I heard no one ( Mr.Carson) has yet been convicted. It seems that you anti-cons assume guilt from being charged

[westguy]

Hold it right there with your false comparisons and lies Shady. The US GDP is 15 TRILLION dollars. The Canadian GDP is 1.7 Trillion dollars. The Canadian Stimulus was around 40 Billion while the US Stimulus was 800 billion BUT 1/3rd of it was tax cuts. So in the end you end up with equivalent measures when we talk about stimulus spending. Both were to small to kick start the economy both were however big enough to stop the free fall. I know though when Harper does the same thing as Obama it is great that Harper did it but bad Obama did it. However you again are acting the fool.

since when has the US GDP been 15trillion?

[westguy]

Except Mulcair rightfully recognizes the economic problems we're heading into based on Conservative economic policy. Dutch disease is a very real issue we're diving headlong into.

are you sure???

[westguy]

There is only one definition of GDP and a few different ways to calculate it. The different ways of calculating it yield nearly identical results, certainly not different enough to make a difference in the arguments that are being made.

for the first time, I agree with cybercoma'a comments

[WWWTT]

I'll leave you on that note

You promise?

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

the government is over-staffed

This conservative government has the largest number of staff in Canadian history!

And the worst one is Harper,lets start there!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

the Harper government did not create the economic meltdown that enveloped the entire western world in 2008. you anti-cons are so narrow minded

That's funny,because in the conservative anti Bob Rae adds the conservatives don't even mention the world wide recession that crippled Ontario?

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

charged does not mean convicted

Convince the voters

WWWTT

[Guest Derek L]

The point is - whether it was Liberals alone or Conservatives aided by Liberals or vice-versa, we were faced with a depleted Military that needed to be re-built for us to have a meaningful role in the world - other than cheering or sniping from the sidelines. Harper and the Conservatives were faced with that dilemna and have since taken steps to re-build not only the infrastructure - but the pride of being a member of the Armed Forces......and yes, it costs money to do so.

I agree, and don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the LPC in the 90s, but the previous PC government was just as bad in many regards.

[pete t teepee]

Well, it looks like the government is well on track to meet their targets, despite some doom and gloom in the world economy. Hopefully this can continue. Oh, and it seems lowering corporate taxes wasn't so bad.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/fp/Ottawa+deficit+shrinks+income+rises/7000561/story.html

So...they inherit an established annual budget surplus from the libs. They cut social programs in the last budget, slash thousands of jobs, have completed the economic stimulus spending, terminate environmental oversight on a grand scale (500 projects in BC alone) and they're still 20 something billion short of breaking even and you're submitting this performance as not so bad? ooooooooooookay

[Smallc]

Context being rather important, how is the rest of the developed world doing?

[madmax]

Context being rather important, how is the rest of the developed world doing?

Considering its the Highest Deficit in Canadian History, I would hope its going down..