Syrian Civil War

[GostHacked]

We had another thread where posters were calling for the invasion of Syria if Assad happened to use chemical weapons, and I posed a question of what if the rebels did it. Did not get much of a response.

[DogOnPorch]

We had another thread where posters were calling for the invasion of Syria if Assad happened to use chemical weapons, and I posed a question of what if the rebels did it. Did not get much of a response.

Oh yeah? Who said that, GH?

[RNG]

A CNN breaking news e-mail says

There is a "high probability" that Syria used chemical weapons against
opposition forces, though verification is needed, U.S. Rep. Mike Rogers,
chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said Tuesday.

The claims come amid pressure in the West to arm the rebels, long overmatched
by the Syrian military and its allies.

The embattled government of President Bashar al-Assad on Tuesday accused
rebels of a deadly chemical weapon missile attack on the town of Khan al-Asal in
Aleppo province. The opposition has accused al-Assad's forces of using such
weapons.

The civil war -- which began two years ago after a government crackdown on
Syrian protesters -- has left around 70,000 people dead, the United Nations
says, and uprooted more than 1 million people.

Get complete coverage of breaking news on CNN.com, CNN TV and CNN Mobile.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh yeah? Who said that, GH?

Yeah...the only guy I ever heard of going back to Syria was Maher Arar, and even he didn't want to go. Ain't gonna be no invasion.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah...the only guy I ever heard of going back to Syria was Maher Arar, and even he didn't want to go. Ain't gonna be no invasion.

Israel might decide enough is enough and do something...but it'll take something rather expedient.

[Bonam]

Israel might decide enough is enough and do something...but it'll take something rather expedient.

I'm sure Israel is perfectly content to watch one of its staunchest enemies eat itself alive.

[DogOnPorch]

I'm sure Israel is perfectly content to watch one of its staunchest enemies eat itself alive.

Expedient = Hey...those guys have chemical weapons and are heading this way.

[GostHacked]

Oh yeah? Who said that, GH?

It's all in this thread here http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=22083

Please pay attention.

[DogOnPorch]

It's all in this thread here http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=22083

Please pay attention.

Thanks, buddy.

[DogOnPorch]

[GostHacked]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/20/us-ambassador-to-syria-no-evidence-chemical-weapon-use-will-not-arm-rebels/

President Obama said Wednesday that the use of chemical weapons in
Syria would be a "game-changer" that would demand action from the
international community, though he stressed that the U.S. and other
nations are still trying to determine whether those weapons were used.

The president addressed the issue during a joint press conference
with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, on his first visit to
Israel as commander-in-chief. Syria, as well as Iran, were at the top of
the agenda in a meeting between the two leaders earlier in the day.

Asked about allegations that chemical weapons have been used in
Syria, Obama stressed that "we have to make sure that we know exactly
what happened."

Once the facts are established, Obama said, "I have made clear that the use of chemical weapons is a game-changer."

If the rebels are the one to use chemical weapons where do they stand on that? Would they discontinue supporting the rebels?

[RNG]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/20/us-ambassador-to-syria-no-evidence-chemical-weapon-use-will-not-arm-rebels/

If the rebels are the one to use chemical weapons where do they stand on that? Would they discontinue supporting the rebels?

That would be a real dilemma. If the reality weren't so serious and sad, it would almost be comical thinking of all the spin-doctors having their heads explode.

[DogOnPorch]

Someone has got some new toys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3XupYFuE48

[DogOnPorch]

...and BOOM goes the dynamite. SCUD hits city.

[GostHacked]

So the head of the recognized government ?? resigned a couple days ago. But found this funny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21936731

The move has enraged Damascus who accused the League of handing the seat to "bandits and thugs".

The government of Bashar al-Assad was suspended by the Arab
League in November 2011 in response to its crackdown on the opposition.

The Arab League never said anything with the protests in Bahrain. Did not say much about the stuff in Saudi Arabia either.

Seems quite selective with the players involved. But we can see the inconsistency of the supporters to take down Assad, but yet leave regimes in place like that in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.

Some strain is showing here ....

Mr Khatib rejected attempts by some outside powers to control Syrian
decisions, saying the country's future would be decided by the Syrian
people alone, the BBC's Jim Muir reports.

And he also rejected all the reasons advanced by western
powers and others for the reluctance to provide the Syrian opposition
with the means to defend the people, our correspondent adds.

The National Council's seat at the Arab League comes at a time of disarray within its top ranks.

Ahmed Moaz al-Khatib - seen as a respected and unifying
figure in Syria - announced his resignation on Sunday, a move so far
rejected by the coalition.

Stupid Syrians rejecting foreign intervention in their own affairs .... it IS for their own good .. right?

Is there oil in Syria?

[DogOnPorch]

Is there oil in Syria?

Yes...there is. That was a "rebel" SCUD attack, btw...not Assad's forces. Seems they've figured out the problem of handling nitric acid.

[GostHacked]

Yes...there is. That was a "rebel" SCUD attack, btw...not Assad's forces. Seems they've figured out the problem of handling nitric acid.

Good thing we are doing the right thing by supporting the rebels. Good thing we would support a chemical weapon attack from the rebels but not from Assad .... at least there is consistency.

[DogOnPorch]

Good thing we are doing the right thing by supporting the rebels. Good thing we would support a chemical weapon attack from the rebels but not from Assad .... at least there is consistency.

Is Canada, in fact, supporting the rebels. If so, how?

[shortlived]

Sounds like the rebels/ us/cia backed used phosgene or something very close to it. (it is very simple to make, anyone could have pulled if off if they had access to chlorine, it posibly could have been caused by the explosion... if chlorine were present on site when the blast went off.)

a few days ago syrian troops were reported to be using white phosphorous or something similiar to it (although the us uses this too) , and it may have just been for illumination and screening that the rebels fell within.

It could be phosgene... or phosgene mixed with white phosphorus..

or perhaps.. phosphorus pentoxide.

apparently there is a method of production of phosgene from phosphorus pentoxide, if the reaction was not perfect residuals of phosphorus pentoxide could have been left in the reaction... hence the smell of phosphorus.. but hell I'm not a chemical weapons engineer or expert..

|An alternative synthesis involves the reaction of phosphorus pentachloride (PCl5) and phosphorus pentoxide (P4O10). Since these compounds are both solids, a convenient way of performing the reaction is to chlorinate a mixture of PCl3 and P4O10, which generates the PCl5 in situ. As the PCl3 is consumed, the POCl3 becomes the reaction solvent.

6 PCl3 + 6 Cl2 → 6 PCl5

6 PCl5 + P4O10 → 10 POCl3

Phosphorus pentachloride also forms POCl3 by reaction with water, but this reaction is less easily controlled than the above reaction."

• TIME COURSE: Patient/victims exposed to low concentrations of phosgene (CG) vapor may not experience any irritation, or they may have only mild irritation of the upper airways; this allows them to inhale phosgene (CG) for a longer time and more deeply into the lungs. There is a symptom-free (latent) period of 30 minutes to 72 hours, depending on the severity of exposure. The more severe the exposure, the shorter the latency. Physical exertion may bring on shortness of breath or difficulty breathing (dyspnea) or fluid accumulation in the lungs (pulmonary edema). Onset of pulmonary edema within 2 to 6 hours is predictive of severe injury. If the patient/victim survives the initial 48 hours after exposure, recovery is likely.
• EFFECTS OF SHORT-TERM (LESS THAN 8-HOURS) EXPOSURE: Phosgene (CG) exerts its toxicity by its action on the body’s proteins, as well as through the production of hydrochloric acid. The lung is the major target organ. Irritation of the eyes and upper respiratory tract may be mild, while effects on the cells of the lower airways and lungs may be severe. Heart failure and death may occur as a complication of lung damage.
• EYE EXPOSURE:
  • Gas (high concentrations): Tear production (lacrimation), accumulation of blood (hyperemia), inflammation, and clouding (opacification) of the cornea.
  • Liquid: Clouding (opacification) of the cornea and delayed perforation.
• INGESTION EXPOSURE:
  • Phosgene (CG) is present as a gas at room temperature, so ingestion is unlikely.
• INHALATION EXPOSURE:
  • Mild: No adverse health effects or only mild upper airway irritation; effects may improve when the patient/victim is removed from exposure; more severe adverse health effects are possible after a delay (latent period).
  • Mild to moderate: After a symptom-free interval (latent period), irritation of the upper airway, dryness and burning of the throat, painful cough, choking, sense of chest discomfort, difficulty breathing or shortness of breath (dyspnea), spasmodic narrowing of the large airways (bronchospasm), and possible nausea and vomiting (emesis) may occur. Patient/victims with underlying reactive airways or asthma may be at increased risk.
  • Severe: Rapid accumulation of fluid in the lungs (pulmonary edema); shallow rapid respirations; severe, painful coughing fits producing frothy liquid (sputum); possible upper airway closure (laryngospasm) that may result in sudden death; difficulty breathing or shortness of breath (dyspnea); possible cardiovascular collapse due to low blood oxygen; and low blood pressure secondary to fluid accumulation in the lungs (pulmonary edema).
• SKIN EXPOSURE:
  • Gas: Irritation and redness (erythema) on contact with wet or moist skin.
  • Severe skin burns or frostbite may occur as a result of contact with compressed liquefied gas.

Edited March 27, 2013 by shortlived

[shortlived]

Is Canada, in fact, supporting the rebels. If so, how?

They are funding them, it was provided under the auspice of "humanitarian aid" in the form of cash.

example: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2012/08/14/stephen_harper_defends_aid_money_through_unregistered_syrian_charity.html

" the group is tied to a global organization channelling medical supplies into Syria."

I must be real here they are doing far more than that, but cannot substantiate the claim.

oh no not that

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/08/17/pol-syria-medical-aid-group.html

Here is 30 million rather 25 million...

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/30/canada-pledges-25-million-for-syrian-aid

"The funds bring Canada's total contribution to $48 million since January 2012."

note though the countries, that are funding are the ones supplying weapons, armour and other military support to the rebels...

The UN is pulling out of Syria due to violence in Damascus it already suspended peace keeping operations in the Golan Heights.

Edited March 27, 2013 by shortlived

[DogOnPorch]

Sounds like the rebels/ us/cia backed used phosgene or something very close to it. (it is very simple to make, anyone could have pulled if off if they had access to chlorine, it posibly could have been caused by the explosion... if chlorine were present on site when the blast went off.)

a few days ago syrian troops were reported to be using white phosphorous or something similiar to it (although the us uses this too) , and it may have just been for illumination and screening that the rebels fell within.

It could be phosgene... or phosgene mixed with white phosphorus..

or perhaps.. phosphorus pentoxide.

The scourge of Verdun. Perhaps on a small scale. You need industrial amounts of activated carbon as well as chlorine and a handy CO source to make it in any significant amounts. Willy Pete doesn't really count as a chemical weapon any more than any other thick smoke.

They are funding them, it was provided under the auspice of "humanitarian aid" in the form of cash.

Medical supplies?? The rotten b***ards!

[shortlived]

The scourge of Verdun. Perhaps on a small scale. You need industrial amounts of activated carbon as well as chlorine and a handy CO source to make it in any significant amounts. Willy Pete doesn't really count as a chemical weapon any more than any other thick smoke.

Medical supplies?? The rotten b***ards!

they cancled the medical aid, but in turn backed a funding jointly raised by the countries arming the rebellion supplying training to those fighting etc..with no specified purpose.

however "N Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said the world body received $1.5 billion in promised funds Wednesday and the money will cover six months of aid for a humanitarian crisis he deemed "catastrophic."

But the UN is pulling out of Syria...

The rebels want and have been continuously asking for support... from NATO forces.

... . http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-syria-arab-league-20130327,0,6553401.story

In regard to rebel access to chlorine

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4317172,00.html

chlorine factory" east of Aleppo

Activated carbon could be obtained from gas masks, chemical suits or a host of

http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/syria-no-longer-exists/

Edited March 27, 2013 by shortlived

[DogOnPorch]

Exactly...very small scale. I'd be much more alarmed if some ne'er-do-wells get their mitts on VX which stays in the environment for extended periods...years...at lethal levels. A dose measured in micrograms produces effects.

[GostHacked]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/mortar-attack-blamed-for-at-least-15-deaths-at-damascus-university-1.1214713

The Free Syrian Army which is western backed seems to be doing more killing of innocents/civilians than Assad.

DAMASCUS, Syria -- Mortar shells slammed into a cafeteria at Damascus University on Thursday, killing at least 15 people and wounding 20 in what was the deadliest in a string of such attacks on President Bashar Assad's seat of power, state media and officials said.

Rebels began firing shells at the capital earlier this year, and the strikes have become increasingly common in recent weeks as rebels clash with government troops on the east and south sides of the city.

State-run TV said 15 people were killed when mortar shells struck the cafeteria of the university's architecture department in the central Baramkeh district. A Syrian official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to give official statements said 20 people were wounded in the attack.

Good thing it was not Assad's people who did this, NATO would have to bomb the crap out of Syria to show them how bad killing innocents are.

[DogOnPorch]

FSA vs Assad's tanks. T-72s and BMPs get a few doses of RPGs, etc. Good on the monster screen. Note the LIBERAL use of WP.

More...

http://www.youtube.com/user/nap00084?feature=watch

Edited March 28, 2013 by DogOnPorch