Abortion on Christian Grounds

[BubberMiley]

Oh yeah I gave my take on the morning-after pill. Go back there and read again!

If life begins at conception, the morning after pill is an early-term abortion. Your "take" on that doesn't change reality.

[betsy]

If life begins at conception, the morning after pill is an early-term abortion.

I know. Like I said, I've dealt with that issue somewhere in that thread.

[BubberMiley]

I know. Like I said, I've dealt with that issue somewhere in that thread.

Isn't lying breaking a commandment?

[carepov]

Thank you to everyone making some very thoughtful posts - I am trying to decide where I should stand on the issue of abortion and this thread has been very informative. I have a question:

What should we do in Canada, if anything, to prevent abortion that is based on sex-selection of the fetus?

I am especially interested in a response from for American Woman and cybercoma. Thanks.

[guyser]

What should we do in Canada, if anything, to prevent abortion that is based on sex-selection of the fetus?

Nothing....legally

Edited August 8, 2012 by guyser

[Guest American Woman]

Thank you to everyone making some very thoughtful posts - I am trying to decide where I should stand on the issue of abortion and this thread has been very informative. I have a question:

What should we do in Canada, if anything, to prevent abortion that is based on sex-selection of the fetus?

I am especially interested in a response from for American Woman and cybercoma. Thanks.

I'm totally against abortion based on sex selection. As I've said, I recognize that abortion does involve a conflict of rights, and since the woman's rights should trump those of a non-viable embryo/fetus, I support her right to abortion, as I think no one should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term.

However, if the woman has tests to determine sex before choosing abortion, it's clearly not a matter of not wanting to be pregnant, but a matter of wanting to choose the sex - and then I believe the rights of the embryo/fetus trump that of the woman. The right not to be pregnant is a completely different issue from the right to choose the sex of the baby.

[bleeding heart]

But a woman could simply have changed her mind, after discovering the sex of the fetus...with the discovery having nothing to do with her ultimate decision.

Sex-selection may be odious, but there's no way to know for sure that this is the woman's reasoning. Certainly having an ultrasound does not mean she can no longer have an abortion!!

I mean...is that really the argument being proposed?

[Bonam]

However, if the woman has tests to determine sex before choosing abortion, it's clearly not a matter of not wanting to be pregnant, but a matter of wanting to choose the sex - and then I believe the rights of the embryo/fetus trump that of the woman. The right not to be pregnant is a completely different issue from the right to choose the sex of the baby.

Yeah that's definitely not a viable solution. You can't be for abortion but propose a ban on it if the woman previously had an ultrasound.

[bleeding heart]

Yeah that's definitely not a viable solution. You can't be for abortion but propose a ban on it if the woman previously had an ultrasound.

Exactly.

[Bonam]

In any case I don't believe abortion based on sex-selection is a significant problem in Canada. How many people do it? Maybe in China when the 1 child rule is in effect. But when people can have as many children as they want? Just not a big issue.

[Guest American Woman]

Yeah that's definitely not a viable solution. You can't be for abortion but propose a ban on it if the woman previously had an ultrasound.

Ummm. That's not what I said. That wasn't my stand or my reason.

For the record, I'm not "for abortion," I'm for choice. I'm for a woman having the right to choose whether or not she wants to remain pregnant - not whether or not she wants a boy or a girl. As I DID say, they are two completely different issues.

[Guest American Woman]

Gender selection is already an option, according to this ad: A Leading World Center for 100% PGD Gender Selection

Sperm from the father is used to fertilize eggs from the mother in the center's lab and then the embryos are tested for genetic disorders and gender identity, and the embryos of the desired gender are implanted in the mother.

[carepov]

In any case I don't believe abortion based on sex-selection is a significant problem in Canada. How many people do it? Maybe in China when the 1 child rule is in effect. But when people can have as many children as they want? Just not a big issue.

It is certainly happening in Canada and it is certainly a big issue to some people:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/06/12/ultrasound-gender-testing.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/04/13/third-child-male-india-mothers.html

Intuitively I feel that sex-selection is wrong - but why?

[bleeding heart]

Intuitively I feel that sex-selection is wrong - but why?

I feel the same way about it.

But the point remains: I can see no reasonable way to make such an activity illegal.

Simply having an ultrasound prior to an abortion certainly isn't sufficient evidence of sex-selection to stop the procedure.

So how could it possibly be determined?

[Guest American Woman]

It is certainly happening in Canada and it is certainly a big issue to some people:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/06/12/ultrasound-gender-testing.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/04/13/third-child-male-india-mothers.html

Intuitively I feel that sex-selection is wrong - but why?

For one thing, China ended up with a lot of men with no women to marry. For another, it's a form of genocide. Lastly, when it comes to abortion, it has nothing to do with a woman's "rights." While a woman should have the right to not be pregnant, whether she's carrying a boy or a girl has no effect on the state of being pregnant.

[Shady]

Oh...then they can be charged.

No wait , that doesnt work.Guess it aint killing then.

Sometimes you can be charged. If you murder a pregnant woman you can be charged with 2 counts of murder.

[Guest American Woman]

Sometimes you can be charged. If you murder a pregnant woman you can be charged with 2 counts of murder.

He was speaking in regards to abortion; a woman who has an abortion can't be charged.

[guyser]

Sometimes you can be charged. If you murder a pregnant woman you can be charged with 2 counts of murder.

Ya think so huh? Not in this country.

[bleeding heart]

Ya think so huh? Not in this country.

For Shady, America is what counts.

So...you voting Obama or Romney?

Edited August 8, 2012 by bleeding heart

[guyser]

For Shady, America is what counts.

Oh I forgot.

So...you voting Obama or Romney?

Neither. But if I had to pick, : Pat Paulsen all the way

[Shady]

Ya think so huh? Not in this country.

Yep, even in this country.

[Shady]

Anyways, I don't like arguing abortion on religious grounds. I like arguing it on scientific grounds. Only knuckle-dragging neanderthals ignore science as it pertains to abortion these days. They're part of the flat-earth society.

[Guest American Woman]

Yep, even in this country.

I don't think so. I bet you can't come up with even one example.

Edited August 8, 2012 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

Yep, even in this country.

This is the post you're supposed to provide the examples to back up your claim.

Unless of course you're a liar.

[guyser]

Yep, even in this country.

You remind me of Homer Simpson, my head hurts (pounds head against wall)....my head hurts (pounds head against wall)...

So , if you think it applies in this country, please state the statute, keeping in mind that the private members bill went nowhere.

Bill C-484 (Historical)An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cracking down on child pornography)This bill was last introduced in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session, which ended in March 2011.

This bill was previously introduced in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session.

SponsorPeter Julian NDP

Introduced as a private member’s bill. (These don’t often become law.)

StatusIntroduction and First Reading

(This bill did not become law.)

ElsewhereAll sorts of information on this bill is available at LEGISinfo, provided by the Library of Parliament. You can also read the full text of the bill.

http://openparliament.ca/bills/40-3/C-484/

Your turn shady !

Edited August 9, 2012 by guyser