"If You’ve Got A Business — You Didn’t Build That"

msj · August 14, 2012

Obama's quote above sounds reasonable, but when you analyze it, it is incomplete at best. What does he mean by the phrase, "we do things together? How is he applying this in the business world?

Did you even bother to read the entire four (4) paragraphs that were quoted?

I mean, really?

Here they are again:

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

And for those who want the tone then I suggest you start listening around 32 minutes here.

Better yet, listen to the first 5 minutes and then go to 32 minutes.

In the past when he's been called on something he said, he responds with the trite attitude that they are only words, etc. Words mean something. Someone who is president or running to win the office knows full well that even one single sentence could change their presidency or campaign. So to say in a speech if you've got a business, you didn't build that, or people cling to their guns and religion, or his spread the wealth around comment, these statements reveal the mindset of the man. You either like his mindset or you don't, I guess.

Yes, words do mean something and I suggest you look at all of those words which have been directly quoted by him and perhaps you should actually listen to him speak them.

Which is why, as the voting public, when the media feeds us a crock of sh!t like Fox News does, it is a clear and present danger to democracy itself.

When fools like Shady come along focusing on 9 words (or 11, depends how you count contractions) rather than the entire context that those words are in then there are misinformed people out there.

Apparently you can count yourself among them.

Thankfully none of us, other than AW, can vote in the US.

Oh, and I have the same opinion when people try to, seriously, take one of Romney's bone headed quotes and try to pass it off as something that it clearly wasn't meant to be.

Key word in the sentence above is "seriously" by the way.

punked · August 14, 2012

Thankfully none of us, other than AW, can vote in the US.

Oh, and I have the same opinion when people try to, seriously, take one of Romney's bone headed quotes and try to pass it off as something that it clearly wasn't meant to be.

Key word in the sentence above is "seriously" by the way.

I vote in the US election as a dual citizen. I lived in Penn for a time so my vote is even in a swing state. Thank you Afroyim v. Rusk.

Edited August 14, 2012 by punked

msj · August 14, 2012

I vote in the US election as a duel citizen. I lived in Penn for a time so my vote is even in a swing state. Thank you Afroyim v. Rusk.

That must be quite the sword fight! Or do you use pistols?

Do they really count those votes though?

Don't they only count them if its a close contest? Or is that just in Canada?

punked · August 14, 2012

That must be quite the sword fight! Or do you use pistols?

Do they really count those votes though?

Don't they only count them if its a close contest? Or is that just in Canada?

No that is in the states to but if it is a close race in Pen for any office maybe my vote will count. I just vote the whole ticket Democrat. Thanks for the spell check.

Edited August 14, 2012 by punked

Shady · August 14, 2012

You forgot that Romney is running as VP and Ryan as Pres.

Said it himself !

Yep, just like Obama did 4 years ago! D'oh! :lol:

punked · August 14, 2012

Yep, just like Obama did 4 years ago! D'oh!

We aren't the ones claiming that a person can't mis speak in an hour long speech that is you Shady. Oh you forgot. So again Romney is now not running for president in Shady's world, he loves firing people, and has no concern for the poor.

Those are your beliefs of your candidate holding him to the same standards you hold Obama to.

Edited August 14, 2012 by punked

Shady · August 14, 2012

We aren't the ones claiming that a person can't mis speak in an hour long speech that is you Shady. Oh you forgot. So again Romney is now not running for president in Shady's world, he loves firing people, and has no concern for the poor.

Those are your beliefs of your candidate holding him to the same standards you hold Obama to.

Obama didn't mis-speak. That's exactly how he feels. It's reflected in some of his other statements, but more importantly, his failed policies. Worst recovery since the great depression.

bleeding heart · August 14, 2012

With a nod to msj, who seditiously produced the quote in context:

Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If youve got a business -- you didnt build that. Somebody else made that happen.

I mean, good lord, how are people misreading this?

If Obama was saying what some people think he was saying...it wouldn't even make logical sense; in which case, their criticism would be of garbled grammar, not some point he didn't make.

Further, our esteemed grammarians think a sentence stands alone without relation to preceding sentences.

Their college essays must have been painful to endure!

Surely there's plenty of legitimate criticism of Obama; why invent stuff out of thin air?

Edited August 14, 2012 by bleeding heart

Canuckistani · August 14, 2012

Surely there's plenty of legitimate criticism of Obama; why invent stuff out of thin air?

Obama made the air thin with his socialist polices. Elect Romney to get back to nice thick capitalistic air.

BubberMiley · August 14, 2012

Obama didn't mis-speak. That's exactly how he feels. It's reflected in some of his other statements, but more importantly, his failed policies. Worst recovery since the great depression.

Romney didn't mis-speak. That's exactly how he feels. He made his fortune taking over companies and firing people with no regard for the poor.

sharkman · August 14, 2012

He also, according to his own words, has no concern for the Poor in America.

Yes, and that would be a mistake, a wrong thing to say or think. He also spoke critically of Britain's security for the Olympics. A stupid thing to say. Do you see that it is possible to admit when Obama or Romney makes a mistake? What gets me is how hard it is for Obama fans to admit that the guy can make a mistake. It's bizarre.

bleeding heart · August 14, 2012

Yes, and that would be a mistake, a wrong thing to say or think. He also spoke critically of Britain's security for the Olympics. A stupid thing to say. Do you see that it is possible to admit when Obama or Romney makes a mistake? What gets me is how hard it is for Obama fans to admit that the guy can make a mistake. It's bizarre.

Well, I'm not an "Obama fan," but sure he did. "That" instead of "those," with a faint confusion (for those searching for errors) over a delayed grammatical subject.

But it's so trivial, especially in spoken speech; the real mistake is the misattribution of his very obvious meaning.

If you want to talk about bad things Obama has done, we can start with a murderous little policy using drone strikes.

Exept Romney supporters are, I presume, approximately 100% supportive of such a thing, so I think Obama's campaign is pretty safe on that particular front....

msj · August 15, 2012

Do you see that it is possible to admit when Obama or Romney makes a mistake? What gets me is how hard it is for Obama fans to admit that the guy can make a mistake. It's bizarre.

Obama's has made lots of mistakes.

I already pointed out at the beginning of this thread that he made some kind of dangling type grammatical error with this quote.

But if one wants to point out Obama's errors one really should be going after something of substance such as his screwing over the economy by not fighting for a bigger spending package (and selling out with useless tax cuts) or his assassination of at least one US citizen (and with resources being spent to legally justify said assassination, or ....

There's a lot of things Obama has done wrong.

Why don't you start a thread about one or some of them?

No, instead people like you and Shady and your ilk will dwell on an out of context grammatical error and then wonder why the rest of us laugh at you.

Then you will create little straw man arguments by claiming that we never have anything bad to say about Obama.

No wonder you guys are unable to comprehend four paragraphs.

Shady · August 15, 2012

No, instead people like you and Shady and your ilk will dwell on an out of context grammatical error and then wonder why the rest of us laugh at you.

His comment wasn't out of context, it was in full context. Just like some of the other windows into his thinking. Like when he said he wants to "spread the weath around" or "the private sector is doing fine" or "I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart" or "it must be because I work harder" and then the king of the windows "if you've got a business, you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen."

And why does Obama think somebody else is responsible for making that happen? Because people pay taxes for the government to fund roads.

msj · August 15, 2012

His comment wasn't out of context, it was in full context.

This is Shady's idea of "full context":

from post #1.

Shady is being, er, shady. :lol:

Once again, full context:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

Go to 32 minutes into this video.

Now that, THAT, is "full context."

sharkman · August 15, 2012

Obama's has made lots of mistakes.

I already pointed out at the beginning of this thread that he made some kind of dangling type grammatical error with this quote.

But if one wants to point out Obama's errors one really should be going after something of substance such as his screwing over the economy by not fighting for a bigger spending package (and selling out with useless tax cuts) or his assassination of at least one US citizen (and with resources being spent to legally justify said assassination, or ....

There's a lot of things Obama has done wrong.

Why don't you start a thread about one or some of them?

No, instead people like you and Shady and your ilk will dwell on an out of context grammatical error and then wonder why the rest of us laugh at you.

Then you will create little straw man arguments by claiming that we never have anything bad to say about Obama.

No wonder you guys are unable to comprehend four paragraphs.

You may not have noticed, but I have taken a step back from politics and this forum, for the last several months. I don't watch the old political shows I used to watch and I find unplugging can give one a more level headed perspective than bickering with strangers on a daily basis.

It looks like you could use some of that.

jefferiah · August 15, 2012

Well, I'm not an "Obama fan," but sure he did. "That" instead of "those," with a faint confusion (for those searching for errors) over a delayed grammatical subject.

But it's so trivial, especially in spoken speech; the real mistake is the misattribution of his very obvious meaning.

If you want to talk about bad things Obama has done, we can start with a murderous little policy using drone strikes.

Exept Romney supporters are, I presume, approximately 100% supportive of such a thing, so I think Obama's campaign is pretty safe on that particular front....

The thing is, it's not actually a grammatical error that makes the argument against the back-pedal. It's the fact that no matter which way you slice it, and no matter how much of the speech you include, "If you've got a business, you didn't build roads and bridges." is a nonsensical sentence -- (not to mention one that he didn't say).

BubberMiley · August 15, 2012

Of course it's a non-sensical sentence. It's only part of it.

Edited August 15, 2012 by BubberMiley

jefferiah · August 15, 2012

We aren't the ones claiming that a person can't mis speak in an hour long speech that is you Shady. Oh you forgot. So again Romney is now not running for president in Shady's world, he loves firing people, and has no concern for the poor.

Those are your beliefs of your candidate holding him to the same standards you hold Obama to.

I will point out for you the difference once again, Punked.

You keep saying we need the full context of the speech. But it doesn't matter how much of the speech you quote....

"If you've got a business, you didnt build that."

You assert that by that he meant "infrastructure". But that doesn't make sense at all. It's not a matter of whether he used the word 'those' or not.....it's just an odd sentence all together (the one you assert he was saying). Why would you say "If you've got a business, you didn't build roads or bridges." It's nonsense. So if you don't have a business, you built roads and bridges? What if you are in the business of building roads and bridges? No matter how much of the speech you quote....that's one hell of a clumsy sentence.

Anyone with half a brain, can determine that the most logical meaning of "that" is the aforementioned business.

Now you mention two distinct cases. The firing one is a deliberate misquote because what he said was "I like to be 'able' to fire people." The other case is actually affected by the words in the next sentence. He is not worried about the poor because he thinks the social safety net can handle it.

You criticize us for analyzing this statement to the umpteenth degree. But really we just think Obama meant what he said. The reason we have taken this to the umpteenth degree is because you keep running from the obvious meaning of a simple English statement, and thus we are required to explain it to you.

Edited August 15, 2012 by jefferiah

BubberMiley · August 15, 2012

But that doesn't make sense at all. It's not a matter of whether he used the word 'those' or not.....it's just an odd sentence all together (the one you assert he was saying). Why would you say "If you've got a business, you didn't build roads or bridges." It's nonsense. So if you don't have a business, you built roads and bridges?

I'm bored with this topic, but the complete sentence, properly punctuated, is: "Somebody invested in roads and bridges—if you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that." If you want to natter on about a sentence and its meaning, at least write it correctly.

jefferiah · August 15, 2012

I'm bored with this topic, but the complete sentence, properly punctuated, is: "Somebody invested in roads and bridges—if you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that." If you want to natter on about a sentence and its meaning, at least write it correctly.

That's still nonsense. Why would it matter if you've got a business or not? If you've got a business, you didn't build that? But if you don't you did?

Edited August 15, 2012 by jefferiah

msj · August 15, 2012

You may not have noticed, but I have taken a step back from politics and this forum, for the last several months. I don't watch the old political shows I used to watch and I find unplugging can give one a more level headed perspective than bickering with strangers on a daily basis.

It looks like you could use some of that.

Why do I need to step back when I'm the one providing the "full context?" :lol:

What's wrong, too many of us Bubbers' and punkeds' and myself to handle?

Do you and Shady prefer your own kind of 12 second "full context" rather than have us spoil the party by providing actual, gasp!, context?

If you don't like to bicker then stay out of the forums.

Me? I enjoy laughing at you guys. It brightens my day.

BubberMiley · August 15, 2012

That's still nonsense. Why would it matter if you've got a business or not? If you've got a business, you didn't build that? But if you don't you did?

That's the problem with focusing on one sentence and not a whole speech, I guess. I'm still wondering what it is about firing people that Romney enjoys so much.

punked · August 15, 2012

I am not sure why he has no concern for the poor.

msj · August 15, 2012

That's the problem with focusing on one sentence and not a whole speech, I guess. I'm still wondering what it is about firing people that Romney enjoys so much.

Yeah, I think he wants to fire people who don't service him the way he wants.