Canada is now the MOST expensive country in the worl to make Cars

[waldo]

I find it simply amazing

u so crazy, Fletch

still no updated data from you, hey Fletch?

[Fletch 27]

Hey Teamster! I provided the Link with data. And you ask for more? Go find it yourself dude. What i provided is tangible enough! You want me to post the prefered color for Cars too? The FACTs and the topic of this discussion is "Canada is now the MOST expensive country in the worl to make Cars" and the facts are there. Did you even open the Link?????????

Now go update your resume from "Door installer" to window-washer... Theres windows in more than cars.. I suggest you add felxibility in your job search

still no updated data from you, hey Fletch?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Fletch 27

[waldo]

Ooo yea... The link:

http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/news/transportation/blog.html?b=business.financialpost.com/2012/06/12/canada-now-the-most-expensive-place-to-build-a-car-in-the-world-says-gm-chief

hey Fletch, what's this graph telling you? --- Automobile and Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Manufacturing(NAICS 33611) - Manufacturing Costs: 2000-2009

hey buddy... StatsCan... can you? Feel free to actually put up something... other than your unsubstantiated mouth-off... see if you can do better than the StatsCan data you've just been presented with. Here... have another view of that data... what does it tell you? - don't be afraid to answer this time, hey:

Same thing as earlier! Old data!

I could pull up data that points to the earth being ducking flat.... But I don't... I know it's outdated.... Jeezzus

is there a reason you're not bringing up your... new data!

still no updated data from you, hey Fletch?

but... speaking of salaries:

Average Annual Salaries - 2000-2009 --- Automobile and Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Manufacturing

(note: Administrative Employees includes all employees designated as executive, administrative, clerical/office and sales staff).

Hey Teamster! I provided the Link with data. And you ask for more? Go find it yourself dude. What i provided is tangible enough!

hey wannabe 1%... where's your 'new' data?

is there a reason you're not bringing up your... new data!

still no updated data from you, hey Fletch?

[Fletch 27]

Maybe you simply do not understand my position here... I will try to slow things down for you..

Your link is from the year 2000 extending till 2009.

My DATA is from "Yesterday"...

hey wannabe 1%... where's your 'new' data?

[waldo]

Maybe you simply do not understand my position here... I will try to slow things down for you..

Your link is from the year 2000 extending till 2009.

My DATA is from "Yesterday"...

what data would that be... from your linked article... quoting the GM CEO as he trots out a conveniently timed 'media negotiation'... before formal negotiations actually begin. What data would that be? As compared to the StatsCan data you've been presented, what data are you trumpeting?

u so crazy, Fletch

[waldo]

hey Fletch, setting aside your false narrative over wages, would you like some more of your favoured media type negotiations?

Canadian Auto Workers' Wages Falling Behind U.S., Union Says

...auto workers north of border are struggling with lower wages than their U.S. counterparts, when cost of living is taken into account.

And when it comes to evaluating the overall “Canadian labour cost advantage” -- which includes the cost of health care and retirement expenditures... the benefits of doing business on this side of the border are even more pronounced.

Under current market exchange rates, all-in labour costs for CAW members at about five to 10 per cent higher than their counterparts in the United Auto Workers union (UAW). But that changes when Canadian consumer prices are taken into account. Evaluated relative to carmakers’ costs... “real Canadian all-in labour costs are actually about $7 per hour lower than in UAW plants.”

[Fletch 27]

Also from your 2000 file to 2009:

http://www.ic.gc.ca/cis-sic/cis-sic.nsf/IDE/cis-sic33611pere.html

I could say ZING!!!!!!!!!!! But even im smart enough to know this data is OLD!!!!!!

what data would that be... from your linked article... quoting the GM CEO as he trots out a conveniently timed 'media negotiation'... before formal negotiations actually begin. What data would that be? As compared to the StatsCan data you've been presented, what data are you trumpeting?

[Fletch 27]

Again., Unions bargaining through Media...

I love this firste sentence: " In advance of what promises to be a difficult round of collective bargaining negotiations with the Big Three this fall, the Canadian Auto Workers union (CAW) is taking aim at what it sees as the myth its members are overpaid"

"At what It sees". We all know what the Union sees with the rosecolored glasses...

[waldo]

Also from your 2000 file to 2009:

http://www.ic.gc.ca/cis-sic/cis-sic.nsf/IDE/cis-sic33611pere.html

I could say ZING!!!!!!!!!!! But even im smart enough to know this data is OLD!!!!!!

I could say bazinga!!!!!!!!! - but why would I rub it in... have another look at that data you're referencing. What are revenues, hey? :lol:

[waldo]

hey Fletch, setting aside your false narrative over wages, would you like some more of your favoured media type negotiations?

Again., Unions bargaining through Media...

but, but, but... that's your thread Fletch... this thread Fletch! You know... your OP that has the GM CEO negotiating through the media. Fletch, do you have double standards?

[Fletch 27]

It was also backed up on Power and Politics last night... And then "Power play". Kevin Oleary and Amanda lang alos covered this on a global snapshot. Youtube it.

One more source not from your hated "Boss man"

Mr. Wathen, chief executive officer of the Economic Development Coalition of Southwest Indiana, is quick to point out that his jurisdiction is nowhere near Muncie, Ind., That’s where Caterpillar Inc. is expected to move diesel locomotive assembly work it is shifting out of London, Ont., after a bitter lockout of its workers there in the southwestern corner of the province.

Muncie, he noted, is northeast of Indianapolis and not near the four counties of Indiana and two in Kentucky that make up the southwest Indiana coalition. And he’s not here to steal jobs.

“I don’t look at it as [if]we’re going up there to try to get Canadian companies not to continue to invest in Ontario,” he said.

The jobs are vanishing on their own as Ontario, long renowned as a manufacturing powerhouse, confronts the unrelenting forces of globalization and the rise of the Canadian dollar, which has helped turn the province into the world’s highest-cost auto making jurisdiction.

but, but, but... that's your thread Fletch... this thread Fletch! You know... your OP that has the GM CEO negotiating through the media. Fletch, do you have double standards?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Fletch 27

[carepov]

This entire Us vs. Them mentality (from both sides) has hindered growth and productivity gains in Canada. Management and unions need to work together to increase profits, productivity, employee involvement and satisfaction, safety, ensure fair wages, etc…

Management is probably right in saying that wages and benefits are too high. For example an unskilled labourer should not make more than an experienced teacher. Do they still have spa benefits?

Unions are definitely right when it comes to executive salaries and perks, private jets etc...

Unions are right - labour is a small part of overall cost of the cars, Management is also right - all costs need to be controlled to stay competitive.

I say settle on a fair wage (through arbitration if needed) and focus on safely making the best quality cars at the lowest overall costs.

[waldo]

but, but, but... that's your thread Fletch... this thread Fletch! You know... your OP that has the GM CEO negotiating through the media. Fletch, do you have double standards?

It was also backed up on Power and Politics last night... And then "Power play". Kevin Oleary and Amanda lang alos covered this on a global snapshot. Youtube it.

you dropping names now? No references... no links... no cites?

where is your new data, Fletch?

hey wannabe 1%... where's your 'new' data?

is there a reason you're not bringing up your... new data!

still no updated data from you, hey Fletch?

[Fletch 27]

That is a great staement and one i would agree with..

Keeping Jobs in Canada and competative is a 2 way street. Sure hope its not too late..

This entire Us vs. Them mentality (from both sides) has hindered growth and productivity gains in Canada. Management and unions need to work together to increase profits, productivity, employee involvement and satisfaction, safety, ensure fair wages, etc…

Management is probably right in saying that wages and benefits are too high. For example an unskilled labourer should not make more than an experienced teacher. Do they still have spa benefits?

Unions are definitely right when it comes to executive salaries and perks, private jets etc...

Unions are right - labour is a small part of overall cost of the cars, Management is also right - all costs need to be controlled to stay competitive.

I say settle on a fair wage (through arbitration if needed) and focus on safely making the best quality cars at the lowest overall costs.

[waldo]

One more source not from your hated "Boss man"

Mr. Wathen, chief executive officer of the Economic Development Coalition of Southwest Indiana, is quick to point out that his jurisdiction is nowhere near Muncie, Ind., That’s where Caterpillar Inc. is expected to move diesel locomotive assembly work it is shifting out of London, Ont., after a bitter lockout of its workers there in the southwestern corner of the province.

Muncie, he noted, is northeast of Indianapolis and not near the four counties of Indiana and two in Kentucky that make up the southwest Indiana coalition. And he’s not here to steal jobs.

“I don’t look at it as [if]we’re going up there to try to get Canadian companies not to continue to invest in Ontario,” he said.

The jobs are vanishing on their own as Ontario, long renowned as a manufacturing powerhouse, confronts the unrelenting forces of globalization and the rise of the Canadian dollar, which has helped turn the province into the world’s highest-cost auto making jurisdiction.

(emphasis added by the waldo!)

so... globalization and the Canadian dollar now, hey? You’re no longer going with your false narrative over union wages? Oh my! That was too easy.

hey Fletch... what are revenues? About your ZING!!!!!!!!!!! post... you know, the one that actually shows more revenue per production employee... ZING!!!!!!!!!!! bazinga!!!!!!!!!

[Fletch 27]

Your lost.. Look at the title of the thread.. Just a fact..

(emphasis added by the waldo!)

so... globalization and the Canadian dollar now, hey? You’re no longer going with your false narrative over union wages? Oh my! That was too easy.

hey Fletch... what are revenues? About your ZING!!!!!!!!!!! post... you know, the one that actually shows more revenue per production employee... ZING!!!!!!!!!!! bazinga!!!!!!!!!

[Moonbox]

Globalization is the problem, not unions. It allows the elite upper class to search for goods and services around the world, but it decimates local first-world economies reducing them to an equal playing field with low tech undeveloped countries like Bangladesh. We "the people" accepted globalization, because we are naive.

It's naive and a bit dense to blame globalization for the problem. If anything, it's improved things for the average driver in North America. Prior to the more globalized economy, the cars made here were total shit. They were expensive, guzzled gas, broke down all the time and didn't last. Consumers were getting absolutely ripped off by the car companies, and the unions benefitted from this tremendously.

Toyota and Honda turned the industry upside-down by building quality cars and, as we saw, drove the Big Three to their knees. Now we get far more value for what we're buying and we actually have a choice. Oh the inhumanity...

Having said that, I do believe that Globalization may be going a bit too far. In North America, we've seen cheaper goods overall, but stagnant wages and the dwindling of our manufacturing sector. I wouldn't at all be averse to adding tarrifs to manufacturers from overseas in places like India and China, where dirt poor wages are their only competitive advantage. Having said that, I'd only be supportive of this if I knew the unions were out of the picture and we weren't going to get swindled like we did all the way up to the late 80's and early 90's.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Unions are right - labour is a small part of overall cost of the cars, Management is also right - all costs need to be controlled to stay competitive.

True enough...but when it comes to impacting profit margins there are fixed and variable costs that manufacturers can control, others they cannot. Labor, burden, and material (LBM) costs plus G&A can only be squeezed in certain areas, and that includes the costs for hourly wages and benefits, which can be controlled/reduced, and should be to remain profitable and maximize shareholder value.

[The_Squid]

I find it simply amazing that the "costs" associated in labour to manufacture a lovingly hand built Ferrari is LESS than a Canadian manufactured/assembled Chrysler Sebring!

What facts do you have to back up this claim?

[carepov]

True enough...but when it comes to impacting profit margins there are fixed and variable costs that manufacturers can control, others they cannot. Labor, burden, and material (LBM) costs plus G&A can only be squeezed in certain areas, and that includes the costs for hourly wages and benefits, which can be controlled/reduced, and should be to remain profitable and maximize shareholder value.

Do you think that executive salaries should be controlled/reduced to maximize shareholder value?

[Guest Manny]

It's naive and a bit dense to blame globalization for the problem. If anything, it's improved things for the average driver in North America. Prior to the more globalized economy, the cars made here were total shit. They were expensive, guzzled gas, broke down all the time and didn't last. Consumers were getting absolutely ripped off by the car companies, and the unions benefitted from this tremendously.

Toyota and Honda turned the industry upside-down by building quality cars and, as we saw, drove the Big Three to their knees. Now we get far more value for what we're buying and we actually have a choice. Oh the inhumanity...

Having said that, I do believe that Globalization may be going a bit too far. In North America, we've seen cheaper goods overall, but stagnant wages and the dwindling of our manufacturing sector. I wouldn't at all be averse to adding tarrifs to manufacturers from overseas in places like India and China, where dirt poor wages are their only competitive advantage. Having said that, I'd only be supportive of this if I knew the unions were out of the picture and we weren't going to get swindled like we did all the way up to the late 80's and early 90's.

It's not all that naive or dense then, since you kind of admit it toward the end of your post. It just takes a certain amount of time, decades, for the effect to become apparent to the common man. So while on the one hand we enjoyed the fruits of virtual slave labour from a foreign workforce that lives below what we consider to be the poverty line, that's come back to bite us in the ass. We've become the consumers, not the producers.

But hey, it doesn't take a genius to figure this out. People have been shouting about this for years now, including economy and environmental issues, and remain largely ignored. don't forget part of the reason it's cheaper to make a car or anything in Bangladesh is, they have minimal environmental regulations. Or workers safety insurance, or healthcare coverage. etc, etc.

Because, in order to be RESPONSIBLE to ourselves and to the future we have implemented a safety culture, and that means, some loss of profitability for the sake of sustainability. That's out the window when we ignore that by going to remote areas of the world and pillaging their resources. All so we can buy nylon track-pants at Wallyworld for less than 20 bucks.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Manny

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you think that executive salaries should be controlled/reduced to maximize shareholder value?

Yes, to the extent that shareholders nominate and vote on proxy motions that impact executive salaries, stock options, other direct and indirect compensation, golden parachutes, board membership, etc.

[bush_cheney2004]

....So while on the one hand we enjoyed the fruits of virtual slave labour from a foreign workforce that lives below what we consider to be the poverty line, that's come back to bite us in the ass. We've become the consumers, not the producers.

But it was perfectly acceptable to export American autoworker jobs to what was then a cheaper labor force in Canada?

.... don't forget part of the reason it's cheaper to make a car or anything in Bangladesh is, they have minimal environmental regulations. Or workers safety insurance, or healthcare coverage. etc, etc.

Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, Mississippi, etc. are not in Bangladesh, nor do they lack such regulations. How dare the Americans build an American car in an American state with American workers. Those are Canada's cars!

[Fletch 27]

Right here,

In 2008 the Unionised workers for Ferrari made 14,000 Euro's or about 18,000 dollars... Versus 72,000 plus benefits in 2008!!

On 31 March 2005, after 15 months of negotiations, a company agreement was signed by Ferrari Auto, by RSU, and by the three metalworkers’ trade union federations: Italian Federation of Blue-Collar Metalworkers (Federazione Italiana Operai Metalmeccanici (Fiom-Cgil), the Italian Federation of Metalworkers (Federazione Italiana Metalmeccanici, Fim-Cisl), and the Italian Metalworkers' Union (Unione Italiana Lavoratori Metalmeccanici, Uilm-Uil).

Ferrari is currently trying to expand into international markets and needs to increase its productivity: to do this is seeks to intensify the use of its plants and make more flexible use of its workforce, by increasing the number of hours worked per week. To achieve these objectives, the trade unions and the company have established a series of flexibility rules for the use of the plant equipment; they have also instituted new shifts and working times without, however, lengthening the working week for individual workers. Moreover, the company agreement has improved the image of part-time work and has broadened opportunities for part-time work, in an attempt to assist workers to reconcile family and professional life.

It took 15 months to conclude the agreement. Initially, several assemblies took place with employees and trade unions. These assemblies demanded that a higher value be placed upon part-time work, that new profiles of professionalism be created and that workers’ so-called ‘multi-functionality’ be rewarded. Negotiations then followed between trade unions and the company. However, reaching a proposal for an agreement was difficult: the company wanted to increase productivity and to introduce a further two shifts per week (in addition to the existing 15 shifts), which would require working on Saturdays and Sundays; many employees did not agree with this proposal. In the end, the social partners decided to add just one shift on Saturdays with a bonus of EUR 20, and only in those areas where productivity had to increase. On Sundays and Mondays, these employees have their rest days. Introducing a 16th shift in the week proved to be the most difficult issue in the new agreement. During negotiations, internal problems emerged between the members of the trade unions, but in the end the referendum was approved with 88% in favour. Currently, about 40 employees are working 16 shifts per week. The climate of cooperation among the social partners contributed to reaching a positive outcome without industrial action.

The agreement also deals with the organisation of holidays, with the aim of combining individual needs while allowing for increasing production volumes. Workers will be able take holidays in a non-continuous manner during the course of the year. The agreement also provides for performance-related pay: it will possible for each employee to reach a pay level of around EUR 14,000 per annum in four years (2005–2008).

ZING!!

What facts do you have to back up this claim?

[BubberMiley]

ZING!!

You should really cite where you are copying and pasting from. It's clear by the level of literacy that you didn't write it, but you've attributed no other source.