"no-zero" policy in schools

[Signals.Cpl]

I don't know where I should post this, but my question to people here is do you agree with the no zero policy not specifically for the school in question but the policy in general. I have received zero's when I didn't complete assignments or when I didn't show up for a test or an exam, and to me that prompted me to review my actions and improve. I don't see how we can expect anything from the future when kids are not held accountable for their actions, if you dsont complete an assignment you don't get the marks for said assignment just as when you don't do your work you don't get paid.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/06/08/edmonton-no-zero-teacher-dorval-no-appeal.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/05/31/edmonton-teacher-zeros-sheppard.html

[punked]

No one agrees with a no zero policy. Why it happens is school boards put these things in place in hopes that no one finds our about them. Then graduation rates go up and the school board can use those stats to pretend like they are doing a good job. It is stupid and hurts our education system so that some elected members can look good if no one blows the lid on such dumb policies.

[Michael Hardner]

I agree with the idea of giving zeros, but I also am reluctant to designate myself as someone who has definitive authority over experts and specialists across the board. In our democracy, we elect people to solve problems, and to manage services. We should have feedback into those activities, but we shouldn't have unmitigated power to overrule how they're done.

[Signals.Cpl]

No one agrees with a no zero policy. Why it happens is school boards put these things in place in hopes that no one finds our about them. Then graduation rates go up and the school board can use those stats to pretend like they are doing a good job. It is stupid and hurts our education system so that some elected members can look good if no one blows the lid on such dumb policies.

Unfortunately I would have to disagree with you here, there are people who support this policy and believe its a positive change.

[Canuckistani]

Unfortunately I would have to disagree with you here, there are people who support this policy and believe its a positive change.

This teacher actually gave kids a chance to make up the assignment before giving the 0. I agree with his approach.

[cybercoma]

It depends on the circumstances.

If a student does not hand in an assignment or does not show up for an exam, then it should be zero.

If they attempt work on something, they should never be given a zero.

[cybercoma]

This teacher actually gave kids a chance to make up the assignment before giving the 0. I agree with his approach.

This is just it. If the kid was given a chance to make up the assignments and still didn't do them, then there's absolutely no reason the student should not have been given a zero.

[GostHacked]

I got a few 0% in school because of unfinished projects. I deserved those zeros. I stand by this teachers decision. These kids who get passed will only have bigger issues in university and college where they do in fact give you 0s, and there is no room for debate from the prof and the tuition comes out of your pocket.

[kolak]

I got a few 0% in school because of unfinished projects. I deserved those zeros. I stand by this teachers decision. These kids who get passed will only have bigger issues in university and college where they do in fact give you 0s, and there is no room for debate from the prof and the tuition comes out of your pocket.

Exactly, this "policy" does nothing but hurt students and in turn society en large. You can't just not finish assignments or not show up when in university or in the workforce.

Hopefully they stop this ASAP as I fear it might be a gateway to even lower education standards.

[cybercoma]

I got a few 0% in school because of unfinished projects. I deserved those zeros. I stand by this teachers decision. These kids who get passed will only have bigger issues in university and college where they do in fact give you 0s, and there is no room for debate from the prof and the tuition comes out of your pocket.

At the university that I went to, many of the departments in the faculty of arts would not give you zeroes on unfinished assignments. Instead, your mark for the entire class would be an INC, which converts to a zero a few weeks after the semester ends. You could hand in every single assignment and score A+ on all of them. If you miss one, you fail the course with an INC.

[cybercoma]

No one agrees with a no zero policy. Why it happens is school boards put these things in place in hopes that no one finds our about them. Then graduation rates go up and the school board can use those stats to pretend like they are doing a good job. It is stupid and hurts our education system so that some elected members can look good if no one blows the lid on such dumb policies.

Thanks for posting this. I couldn't understand why they were doing it, but this certainly makes sense now.

[punked]

Unfortunately I would have to disagree with you here, there are people who support this policy and believe its a positive change.

No one inside a classroom. Again the only people who agree with it are people at the board (or inside the education department) whose jobs and raises depend on being able to show and meet the numbers. It is a way to show results with out more money, more teachers, or more work.

Edited June 9, 2012 by punked

[punked]

I got a few 0% in school because of unfinished projects. I deserved those zeros. I stand by this teachers decision. These kids who get passed will only have bigger issues in university and college where they do in fact give you 0s, and there is no room for debate from the prof and the tuition comes out of your pocket.

You live an older world my friend. Universities are following through with these same policies because the more students means more money. So today it is much easier to buy a degree. Can you get As like this? No. But D is for degree. The dumbing down of education across the board hurts us all but it is happening in this country.

[madmax]

I don't know where I should post this, but my question to people here is do you agree with the no zero policy not specifically for the school in question but the policy in general. I have received zero's when I didn't complete assignments or when I didn't show up for a test or an exam, and to me that prompted me to review my actions and improve. I don't see how we can expect anything from the future when kids are not held accountable for their actions, if you dsont complete an assignment you don't get the marks for said assignment just as when you don't do your work you don't get paid.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/06/08/edmonton-no-zero-teacher-dorval-no-appeal.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/05/31/edmonton-teacher-zeros-sheppard.html

I believe this is a teacher speaking out and his association also agrees with him, but know they cannot win a appeal.

There are way to many restictions on teachers marking. I see Alberta is just as messed up.

Alot of this has to do with Provincial Funding Formulas and is also a problem in Provinces that have adopted American originated Standardized testing.

I got zeros when I was in school. The world did not come to an end.

[Topaz]

Ok, we are dealing with high school aged kids and that's a complication right there. There`s too many mental and emotional items happening to these people`s brains and part of it is not doing the work. Ok, so where is the parents, does the student have the support needed and high school time is were a person will either gets serious about their life or find out what happens when they drop out. What`s the age a person can dropout of high school in Alberta? Some kids don`t realize how important an education is and some kids need more help then others.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Alot of this has to do with Provincial Funding Formulas and is also a problem in Provinces that have adopted American originated Standardized testing.

Would this be yet another politicized example of encroaching "American style (fill in the blank)", or just choices that provinces have made irrespective of what happens in another country?

Why can't provinces develop and execute their own standardized tests? I am in the testing business, and it is amazing how many nations depend on American benchmark and certification test content.

Edited June 9, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[cybercoma]

How then do you distinguish between the kid that makes sacrifices to complete all of his/her work and the ones that do a few assignments they feel like completing before slacking off?

The school even admitted the grading is highly inconsistent because some teachers would consider the number of missed assignments and give a lower grade as a result, while others still would only mark things handed in and average that out.

There's no reason a student that does not hand in an assignment shouldn't get a zero on it, especially while others may be going out of their way to make sure they get everything done. It's not fair to anyone.

[punked]

How then do you distinguish between the kid that makes sacrifices to complete all of his/her work and the ones that do a few assignments they feel like completing before slacking off?

The school even admitted the grading is highly inconsistent because some teachers would consider the number of missed assignments and give a lower grade as a result, while others still would only mark things handed in and average that out.

There's no reason a student that does not hand in an assignment shouldn't get a zero on it, especially while others may be going out of their way to make sure they get everything done. It's not fair to anyone.

We really do need to look at the system though. The reason some students don't do work is because they are being forced to take credits that have no interest in. By the time High school hits some students should be given the option to take say carpentry, or auto-body and forgo something like physics. Not everyone of these students needs that but the system forces them to take it. The system fails the students as much as the students fail the system.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I don't know where I should post this, but my question to people here is do you agree with the no zero policy not specifically for the school in question but the policy in general. I have received zero's when I didn't complete assignments or when I didn't show up for a test or an exam, and to me that prompted me to review my actions and improve. I don't see how we can expect anything from the future when kids are not held accountable for their actions, if you dsont complete an assignment you don't get the marks for said assignment just as when you don't do your work you don't get paid.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/06/08/edmonton-no-zero-teacher-dorval-no-appeal.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/05/31/edmonton-teacher-zeros-sheppard.html

No-Zero Policy

I disagree with it.

Every teacher I know disagrees with it.

The Government loves it because "Graduation Rates" can be used to indicate success.

The Administration of schools love it because it gives them opportunities to come up with idiotic policies that "help" students achieve (AKA give them a free grade by dumbing down the system).

We live in a world of consequences. Zero is a consequence of not doing any work. Not getting a job is the consequence of not filling in an application.

We need to be teaching students how to live in a world of consequences.

Edited June 9, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[MiddleClassCentrist]

We really do need to look at the system though. The reason some students don't do work is because they are being forced to take credits that have no interest in. By the time High school hits some students should be given the option to take say carpentry, or auto-body and forgo something like physics. Not everyone of these students needs that but the system forces them to take it. The system fails the students as much as the students fail the system.

100% with you.

We need a proper trades program to fast track students through skilled-trades if that is where they want to go.

[punked]

100% with you.

We need a proper trades program to fast track students through skilled-trades if that is where they want to go.

I agree. It seems like the NDP in NS is on the right track. With declining enrollment they have decided to renovate some school that would have closed to make then trades schools for students who want to go into the trades so they can get qualified faster and fill the gaps that this country needs. They have what I would say is the best community collage program in the country and doing well at this. They still need to stop making students take credits they will never use. At some point enough Shakespeare is enough Shakespeare, it is time to teach those who want to how to wield or run wire.

[Moonlight Graham]

I agree with the idea of giving zeros, but I also am reluctant to designate myself as someone who has definitive authority over experts and specialists across the board. In our democracy, we elect people to solve problems, and to manage services. We should have feedback into those activities, but we shouldn't have unmitigated power to overrule how they're done.

From the cbc article:

The thinking behind the policy, which was adopted by the school a year and a half ago, is that a failure to complete assignments is a behavourial issue, and marks should reflect ability, not behaviour.

That sounds like an ideological stance, possibly based on psychology theory, possibly just based on nothing in particular. Sometimes the experts have it right, but parents also should have some kind of authority into how their kids are taught.

Sounds like they just don't want troubled or lazy or parentallly challenged (whatever the cause of the "behaviour") kids getting walloped by missing assignments/tests. Fair enough, there's a huge difference in a 45/100 for a bad essay and a 0/100, even though both are F's. I think they should focus on fixing the behaviour rather than symptom. If a kid is doing poorly and missing assignments/test, a social worker and teacher should step in & talk to the student and parents/guardians to figure out why and fix it.

Totally depends on what the substitude mark is for the zero too. A 1/10 or a 4/10?

Edited June 9, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[kolak]

Most school boards have counselors set up to help students who are dealing with serious emotional stress etc (i.e. family problems). Giving these students a chance to make up an assignment they couldn't complete makes sense, giving students a chance to make up an assignment they missed because of legitimate reasons makes sense. But simply giving students say a 1/10 on a missed assignment? That hurts everyone except the teachers and boards because of better performance reviews.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I agree. It seems like the NDP in NS is on the right track. With declining enrollment they have decided to renovate some school that would have closed to make then trades schools for students who want to go into the trades so they can get qualified faster and fill the gaps that this country needs. They have what I would say is the best community collage program in the country and doing well at this. They still need to stop making students take credits they will never use. At some point enough Shakespeare is enough Shakespeare, it is time to teach those who want to how to wield or run wire.

The problem is that trades programs costs a good deal of money to run.

That's why they disappeared from their any high quality level in the 90's.

[Guest Peeves]

Ok, we are dealing with high school aged kids and that's a complication right there. There`s too many mental and emotional items happening to these people`s brains and part of it is not doing the work. Ok, so where is the parents, does the student have the support needed and high school time is were a person will either gets serious about their life or find out what happens when they drop out. What`s the age a person can dropout of high school in Alberta? Some kids don`t realize how important an education is and some kids need more help then others.

I give you a 'O'