DogOnPorch Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Not at all. I know I come in here, to wear rubber boots. So I won't even bother to address your ad hominem. Your post history shall do that for free, with no expense of time or keystrokes on my part. Yeah, I didn't think you'd back up your own POS lies. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Manny Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Yeah, I didn't think you'd back up your own POS lies. I already did show what you and bleedingheart were saying, in a previous post. Repeating it is boring. As for POS, I always wear my boots while you, being a dog must therefore eat it... to conceal the dirty things you do! Quote
guyser Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Good call if you pulled that from your noggin'. I suppose I could say yes and look good, but...... Not exactly , nor Wiki. But I knew that phrase and understood it was the RAF who coined it. You'll never see me post about war history , read yes, but debate , not a chance. War history was a sleeping class in school. Mistake yes, thanks for History Channel now , and FWIW, the series on VietNam was very interesting and taught me a ton. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 I suppose I could say yes and look good, but...... Not exactly , nor Wiki. But I knew that phrase and understood it was the RAF who coined it. From what I've read, it sounds as if the RAF most definitely was the first to carry it out during WWII, but I'm not so sure they coined the term. According to "A Mind for Murder: The Education of the Unabomber and the Origins of Modern Terrorism" by Alston Chase, ..."saturation bombing" and "carpet bombing" were minted by the U.S. Army Air Corps during WWII. link I can't find any source that says the RAF coined the term. Perhaps you can provide one? At any rate, sounds is if it's one of those debatable issues at best. Quote
guyser Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 From what I've read, it sounds as if the RAF most definitely was the first to carry it out during WWII, but I'm not so sure they coined the term. At any rate, sounds is if it's one of those debatable issues at best. Sure is. http://history.srk12.org/US%20HG%20book/Chapter25/Chapter25Sec2.pdf Scroll down to Allied Air War. Page 6 (wont copy) Quote
Guest American Woman Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 Sure is. http://history.srk12.org/US%20HG%20book/Chapter25/Chapter25Sec2.pdf Scroll down to Allied Air War. Page 6 (wont copy) Your source says they developed the technique, which is what I attested to - it doesn't say they coined the term "carpet bombing." It's, as we both seem to agree, debatable, so I'm thinking we are likely just going to have to agree to disagree. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 Hate to break it to you lot, but “carpet bombing”, like most AirLand battle doctrine, was developed and first implemented by the Condor Legion of the Luftwaffe (Nazi Germany) during the Spanish Revolution….. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 Gee, if I had known that the term "carpet bomb" was so near and dear, I would have stirred this pot much sooner. Just to be a stinker, and regardless of who developed the actual tactics, modern usage most certainly refers to bombing campaigns during the Vietnam War, particularly by peacemongers. B-52's also did a much better job than Lancasters or Liberators. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
August1991 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) 1943 Tunisia campaign. RAF Carpet bombing? I'd say that it comes from Arthur Harris of Bomber Command.According to wikipedia, "area bombing" (both term/action) started in 1942. Gee, if I had known that the term "carpet bomb" was so near and dear, I would have stirred this pot much sooner. Just to be a stinker, and regardless of who developed the actual tactics, modern usage most certainly refers to bombing campaigns during the Vietnam War, particularly by peacemongers. B-52's also did a much better job than Lancasters or Liberators.Kurt Vonnegut wrote a book about it.From what I can gather, "carpet/area bombing" in WWII Europe were far worse than in Vietnam. Hate to break it to you lot, but “carpet bombing”, like most AirLand battle doctrine, was developed and first implemented by the Condor Legion of the Luftwaffe (Nazi Germany) during the Spanish Revolution….. There you go.But I think the original point was that the 1960s US media chose the term "carpet bombing" to put the US military in a negative light - when in fact, the term was much older. And trust the US 1960s media to muddy the moral waters: "Churchill, Hitler, Nixon. They're all war-mongering fascists!" IMHO, 50 or so years ago, America fought the good fight in Vietnam, it bore the burden, and ultimately liberty prevailed. I hope that someone in 2062 will say the same of this Afghan War. Edited May 24, 2012 by August1991 Quote
August1991 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) I don't know that you can align every east-west cold war conflict with good and evil so easily. How about Nicaragua ? El Salvador ? Chile ? They put those leftists in their place, boy howdy !All things considered, where would you rather be in 2012: Cuba or Chile?As Ronald Reagan said, this ideology will wind up on the dust heap of history. As Margaret Thatcher said, leftists will eventually run out of other people's money. Nowadays, we would say that socialism is not sustainable. Also - you were born after 1975 ? I was born in August 1991. Edited May 24, 2012 by August1991 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 Hate to break it to you lot, but “carpet bombing”, like most AirLand battle doctrine, was developed and first implemented by the Condor Legion of the Luftwaffe (Nazi Germany) during the Spanish Revolution….. Germany never had a true strategic bomber. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Michael Hardner Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 All things considered, where would you rather be in 2012: Cuba or Chile? Chile, and what does that prove ? As Ronald Reagan said, this ideology will wind up on the dust heap of history. As Margaret Thatcher said, leftists will eventually run out of other people's money. Nowadays, we would say that socialism is not sustainable. And as all of us on MLW have said countless times: stop repeating decades-old platitudes. Economic success is not morality. You come across as thick if you don't acknowledge the complex questions involved here. The cold war was won, but even staunch jingoists can and have expressed regret over the wasted lives and criminal acts that crushed the "strategic" countries in Asia, Africa and Central America in the 1970s and 1980s. I was born in August 1991. You are 21 ? Really. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Guest Derek L Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) Carpet bombing? I'd say that it comes from Arthur Harris of Bomber Command. According to wikipedia, "area bombing" (both term/action) started in 1942. Kurt Vonnegut wrote a book about it. From what I can gather, "carpet/area bombing" in WWII Europe were far worse than in Vietnam. There you go. But I think the original point was that the 1960s US media chose the term "carpet bombing" to put the US military in a negative light - when in fact, the term was much older. And trust the US 1960s media to muddy the moral waters: "Churchill, Hitler, Nixon. They're all war-mongering fascists!" IMHO, 50 or so years ago, America fought the good fight in Vietnam, it bore the burden, and ultimately liberty prevailed. I hope that someone in 2062 will say the same of this Afghan War. Typical MSM, giving no credit to the real developer……….I’d have thought being the cousin of the Red Baron might have helped his chances…….. Snoopy never took on Wolfram von Richthofen Edited May 24, 2012 by Derek L Quote
Guest American Woman Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) I was born in August 1991. Sure you were; you were only 12 when you registered and started posting here. Edited May 24, 2012 by American Woman Quote
Topaz Posted May 24, 2012 Author Report Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) Closer to 3 million including the Guard and Ready Reserve. For most of them, medal throwing grandstanders like John Kerry are not heroes. Well at least they went over, Bush and Cheney and others kept coming up with reasons they COULDN'T go! Edited May 24, 2012 by Topaz Quote
Guest American Woman Posted May 24, 2012 Report Posted May 24, 2012 Well at least they went over, Bush and Cheney and others kept coming up with reasons they COULDN'T go! I don't think the veterans bush_cheney was referring to see it that way. Quote
bleeding heart Posted May 27, 2012 Report Posted May 27, 2012 Almost 3 million, so the 50 does not seem like a large number. Im sure we can get 50 Canadians or Americans who were ashamed to fight the Nazi's. Yeah, because that's perfectly comparable..... Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
bleeding heart Posted May 27, 2012 Report Posted May 27, 2012 I already did show what you and bleedingheart were saying, in a previous post. True, but--to be fair to me and the Dog--you were incorrect, as I explained to you. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
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