Topaz Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 NATO wants Canada and other countries to stay beyond the 2014 dead line and who knows which way Harper will go. Will he keep the troops there or hand over millions of taxpayers money to the Afghan military? That money could end up buying the Emperor new clothes instead, we don't know that the money will go to their military. Harper has cut social program because of the deficit and yet he'll hand over millions to a Afghanistan that may not be able to hold off the Taliban from taking over in the future. Most of the G8 countries are having finance problems and none can afford to go to war or play at it or many will end up like Russia did when they withdrew from Afghanistan. I could be wrong, but I think most Canadians want our guys out. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/20/nato-head-urges-canada-to-keep-military-trainers-in-afghanistan-past-2014/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) MacKay has supposedly said tonight that it will be over. Here's the article, it won't be extended. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/20/pol-mackay-afghan-mission-extension.html Edited May 21, 2012 by Newfoundlander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 MacKay has supposedly said tonight that it will be over. Here's the article, it won't be extended. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/20/pol-mackay-afghan-mission-extension.html SKrewum--- let them fight among themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 SKrewum--- let them fight among themselves. Yep, and we should have told our allies to go fight their own battles too, like I've been saying for 11 years or so now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Yep, and we should have told our allies to go fight their own battles too, like I've been saying for 11 years or so now. Well- the TV News said this AM that the Govt. would announce Financial aid to help Afghanistan rebuild. Let's see the fairness in that---they have oil revenues, not as large of course as their opium revenues but,adding both of them perhaps it's time we kept our foreign aid to the kids of Canada--- that should be a foreign enuf concept to any Canadian government to have it qualify as that type of aid. Edited May 21, 2012 by Tilter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Well- the TV News said this AM that the Govt. would announce Financial aid to help Afghanistan rebuild.Let's see the fairness in that---they have oil revenues, not as large of course as their opium revenues but,adding both of them perhaps it's time we kept our foreign aid to the kids of Canada--- that should be a foreign enuf concept to any Canadian government to have it qualify as that type of aid. OIL revenue , really Afghanistan is 179 th in the world in regards to OIL production, it created a whooping 2.5 bil in revenues in 2009... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Yep, and we should have told our allies to go fight their own battles too, like I've been saying for 11 years or so now.In the past, Canadians were not fair weather friends.--- Our guys have done our share, and I hope that the Taliban now understand that if they harbour people who will harm us (or our friends/allies), they will suffer. As to "modernizing" Afghans, I never saw that as an objective of the mission. IMV, our troups were there to ensure that Afgfhanistan never ever became a staging point. That's all. Edited May 22, 2012 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 In the past, Canadians were not fair weather friends. --- Our guys have done our share, and I hope that the Taliban now understand that if they harbour people who will harm us (or our friends/allies), they will suffer. As to "modernizing" Afghans, I never saw that as an objective of the mission. IMV, our troups were there to ensure that Afgfhanistan never ever became a staging point. That's all. An argument could be made that the west gave a lot of things to Afghanistan and its people in order to improve their lives as a way to ensure the Taliban don't come back to power. We give them something in order to have them fight tooth and nail to maintain and improve on their lives once we are out of there. If there was no difference in the quality of life under the Taliban and now then the Taliban can come back. If there is a significant difference, then the people will fight hard to prevent losing the freedoms and the quality of life they now have. Now by no means do Afghans have the quality of life of Canadians, but if there is a significant difference between the before and after I suspect they will be more willing to protect their progress and make more on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 An argument could be made that the west gave a lot of things to Afghanistan and its people in order to improve their lives as a way to ensure the Taliban don't come back to power.IME, it'll take 5 or 10 generations before Afghans live in the modern, western Renaissance world of Galileo, Newton and Voltaire. I reckon that individual Afghans should figure this out on their own."Gave a lot of things to Afghanistan?" I hope that we gave Afghans one thing: the message that they should not harbour people who will hurt the West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 IME, it'll take 5 or 10 generations before Afghans live in the modern, western Renaissance world of Galileo, Newton and Voltaire. I reckon that individual Afghans should figure this out on their own. "Gave a lot of things to Afghanistan?" I hope that we gave Afghans one thing: the message that they should not harbour people who will hurt the West. We gave them freedoms that they have not enjoyed in a generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Missing the point. Pakistan is the enemy in the region. They hide terrorists (Osama) and finance terrorists. Afghanistan will never enjoy any moderate Islam so long as Pakistan is treated as a friend, given billions in aid while propping up a military regime that has nothing but ill will for the West. When NATO forces move out, those hiding in Pakistan will again rule Afghanistan. We have been stupid in ignoring Pakistan's influence and subterfuge. It will come back to bite us in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 An argument could be made that the west gave a lot of things to Afghanistan and its people in order to improve their lives as a way to ensure the Taliban don't come back to power. We give them something in order to have them fight tooth and nail to maintain and improve on their lives once we are out of there. If there was no difference in the quality of life under the Taliban and now then the Taliban can come back. If there is a significant difference, then the people will fight hard to prevent losing the freedoms and the quality of life they now have. Now by no means do Afghans have the quality of life of Canadians, but if there is a significant difference between the before and after I suspect they will be more willing to protect their progress and make more on their own. Good post ,education is the answer, the more the better. As you said they get a taste for something they will not want to give it back.And for anyone to say it is a total failure, does not follow what has gone on there. Look at afghanistan in the 70's, it was not as bad as it has been since the russians ruined it. Alot more freedom for women, which they are starting to get back. IMO we left to early. But if it returns to the taliban, then it is time tio get back to the british butcher and bolt way of doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Missing the point. Pakistan is the enemy in the region. They hide terrorists (Osama) and finance terrorists. Afghanistan will never enjoy any moderate Islam so long as Pakistan is treated as a friend, given billions in aid while propping up a military regime that has nothing but ill will for the West. When NATO forces move out, those hiding in Pakistan will again rule Afghanistan. We have been stupid in ignoring Pakistan's influence and subterfuge. It will come back to bite us in the ass. Thumbs up. The only question is what could have been done differently about Pakistan. I think they were trying to make the best out of a bad situation there, and the stupidity was ignoring the role Pstan would play in our trying to nation build in Afghanistan. But, even with no outside influence, I wonder how well nation building would have succeeded in Afghanistan. Were we ever prepared to stay there for a generation or two to make it happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Thumbs up. The only question is what could have been done differently about Pakistan. I think they were trying to make the best out of a bad situation there, and the stupidity was ignoring the role Pstan would play in our trying to nation build in Afghanistan. But, even with no outside influence, I wonder how well nation building would have succeeded in Afghanistan. Were we ever prepared to stay there for a generation or two to make it happen?That is the only way it would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 NATO wants Canada and other countries to stay beyond the 2014 dead line and who knows which way Harper will go. Will he keep the troops there or hand over millions of taxpayers money to the Afghan military? That money could end up buying the Emperor new clothes instead, we don't know that the money will go to their military. Harper has cut social program because of the deficit and yet he'll hand over millions to a Afghanistan that may not be able to hold off the Taliban from taking over in the future. Most of the G8 countries are having finance problems and none can afford to go to war or play at it or many will end up like Russia did when they withdrew from Afghanistan. I could be wrong, but I think most Canadians want our guys out. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/20/nato-head-urges-canada-to-keep-military-trainers-in-afghanistan-past-2014/ When they say ,that a poll was done and most canadians want out. How do they know if they are polling canadians. How many muslims newcomers vote in a poll, and how many would vote for infadals on thier lands. Land that they left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 we should have told our allies to go fight their own battles too every so often, this place provides a laugh-out-loud moment. Thank you for your valuable contribution in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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