Your Toronto Blue Jays

[overthere]

More garbage from Gibbons in the Jays second. Runners first and second, nobody out. Tulo up and hitting a pathetic 2 for 25 in the playoffs. Of course he should be bunting them over. Instead 3 pitches, 3 strikes including a swinging strikeout on a bal that bounces 2 feet in front of the plate.

Next batter Martin hits a screamer to shortstop for a double play.

If Tulo had bunted them over, the infield would be playing in to stop the run. Martins line drive would have gone to the outfield for two runs. Instead, another opportunity wasted, just like yesterday. Gibbons fault, he knows Tulo is just hopeless right now. Instead of standing with your thumb up your arse waiting for the homer that won't happen in this huge field, MAKE IT HAPPEN!

[overthere]

And the Jays do it again in the third.

Goins , a fast runner, on second with nobody out. He ends the inning standing there after our one two and three hitters take a seat.

You just gotta take advantage when you can....

[Boges]

Gibby will get shit for keeping Price in the 7th. He was dealing until that error by Bautista and Goins. Seemed to destroy his confidence.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, look at the bright side: Price's major league record for straight losses as a playoffs starter is extended.

Edited October 18, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[overthere]

Gibby will get shit for keeping Price in the 7th. He was dealing until that error by Bautista and Goins. Seemed to destroy his confidence.

And the Royals started doing what they do on the third time through the order: hit where they are pitched. Price was throwing on the outside all game, so the Royals just started dinking the ball to the opposite field.

Funny that Gibbons the former catcher and Martin never noticed that and adjusted.

The Jays would be better having Kawasaki or Pennington pitch rather than Loup. Abosultely fucking hopeless..

But congrats to the Royals, they play this game every day to perfection and deserve the 2-0 lead.

[Boges]

The Royals sure are relentless. Down big, they made a game out of it in the 9th.

I would expect the Jays will make quick work of the tomato can the Royals throw up against them today. We'll see if Dickey can perform on more than a week's rest.

[overthere]

The question with Dickey is: what do you do if he does not do well early? Bring in Estrada?

They just don't have much in their bullpen that is an obvious long relief.

[Boges]

The question with Dickey is: what do you do if he does not do well early? Bring in Estrada?

They just don't have much in their bullpen that is an obvious long relief.

It's a problem. Gibby decided to go with 7 relievers that aren't meant to go a full game. In hindsight, maybe it would have been better to have Hutch or Buehrle on the roster in case a starter gets shelled like Cueto did last night. It's not like they ever plan to use Tepera or Hawkins unless the game is lost or it's in extra innings.

The Royals had one of their other starters to fill in and eat innings while the Jays still had to use Lowe, Sanchez and Osuna to preserver a seemingly easy victory. I'm disappointed Hendricks couldn't mop up in the 9th yesterday.

The loss of Cecil really hampers this team.

The only way they win is if Dickey is good and the #1 offence in the league plays like it.

It was nice to see Goins and Tulo come back strong yesterday.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Boges

[overthere]

An indication of the terror factor in their bullpen is Gibbons bringing in Osuna with a five run lead in the ninth.

The announcers were puzzled, they are apparently unaware that there was nothing there except mutts like Hawkins Loup etc.

I really hope Tulo has turned a corner and can hit like the player he was in Colorado. It must be great for his confidence to hit another big homer.

Tomato can? Young is 11-6 with a lower ERA than Dickey. Bautista has hit .167 against him the last five years. Donaldson has hit just.063 in the same period.

I don't take the Royals or anything about them lightly. They are a well balanced team that plays a very aggressive and very successful game, one that got them to Game 7 of the WS last year.

It is another must win game for the Jays.

Oh, and Cecil is another one inning pitcher. They really miss him, but they just don't have a long relief option and with only 4 starters.....

Edited October 20, 2015 by overthere

[overthere]

crushed, Pitching, as always.

I don't see how the Jays come back from this loss.

[Boges]

Now we're done.

I'm a fan of the Jay but I don't believe in watching a team get destroyed out of loyalty. I couldn't get past the first half inning of that game.

Perhaps they can rally and win today but no way they can win 3 in a row against the Royals. This team is frustratingly good.

[overthere]

Gibbons at least had the wit not to commit suicide completely- he still has Estrada and his two closers ready to go. Both Sanchez and Osuna apparently have minor injuries.

The Royals have simply been much better, and have exposed the holes in the Jays repeatedly. And the holes are: a) hate to say I told you so, but the pitching is not up to this, starters or bullpen. management/strategy- you have to make runs at this level, and Gibbons just won't do it. See how their number 3 hitter Cain squares around to bunt....can you even imagine Bautista doing that in any situation?

After dissecting the Jays in Games 1 and 2, they nearly came back from waaaaaay back in Game 3. And Game 4 was their answer to 'oh boy now the Jays have momentum'.

The Jays can still win it of course. I just don't see how.

The thing the Jays have moving forward this off season is some depth in position players. They'll need it as trade bait and money to buy some urgently needed pitching. They emptied their larder of prospects to get this far, now they'll have to give up some good players to start over.

Call me crazy, but thwe two guys they can move for something decent are Bautista and Tulo. Goins and Travis make a good middle infield at a fraction of the price. And Bautista is getting old... Donaldson can move to #3 spot in the order and Travis to #2. Pompey and Carrera can platoon in right field.

They must buy some arms. The only starter that is likely to be back next year is Stroman. Buehrle, Estrada, Price, and likely Dickey are all gone. I don't knwo if you can add Hutchison to the huge pile of disastrous pitching prospects yet, but he s certainly circling the drain.

There is no reason to keep Tepara, Loup, Hawkins, delabar or Jenkins Lowe is UFA and not very good. Hendriks and Francis, maybe. Not many left!

[Boges]

Gibbons at least had the wit not to commit suicide completely- he still has Estrada and his two closers ready to go. Both Sanchez and Osuna apparently have minor injuries.

The Royals have simply been much better, and have exposed the holes in the Jays repeatedly. And the holes are: a) hate to say I told you so, but the pitching is not up to this, starters or bullpen. management/strategy- you have to make runs at this level, and Gibbons just won't do it. See how their number 3 hitter Cain squares around to bunt....can you even imagine Bautista doing that in any situation?

After dissecting the Jays in Games 1 and 2, they nearly came back from waaaaaay back in Game 3. And Game 4 was their answer to 'oh boy now the Jays have momentum'.

The Jays can still win it of course. I just don't see how.

The thing the Jays have moving forward this off season is some depth in position players. They'll need it as trade bait and money to buy some urgently needed pitching. They emptied their larder of prospects to get this far, now they'll have to give up some good players to start over.

Call me crazy, but thwe two guys they can move for something decent are Bautista and Tulo. Goins and Travis make a good middle infield at a fraction of the price. And Bautista is getting old... Donaldson can move to #3 spot in the order and Travis to #2. Pompey and Carrera can platoon in right field.

They must buy some arms. The only starter that is likely to be back next year is Stroman. Buehrle, Estrada, Price, and likely Dickey are all gone. I don't knwo if you can add Hutchison to the huge pile of disastrous pitching prospects yet, but he s certainly circling the drain.

There is no reason to keep Tepara, Loup, Hawkins, delabar or Jenkins Lowe is UFA and not very good. Hendriks and Francis, maybe. Not many left!

Buerhle, Romaro and Izturez contract all expire this off season. That's a lot of money that can be used elsewhere. They also have Saunders that isn't needed because of Revere. With one year left, I doubt a lot of teams will be looking to give a lot for Joey Bats. Tulo could be traded, but for what?

I hope Sanchez (and maybe even Osuna) can start next year. But yeah the bullpen is thin. Hopefully Cecil can come back next year showing the dominance he had been since June. That injury really killed the Jays chances. No way Price stays in as long Saturday of Cecil was available.

We also don't know what the new president's philosophy will be. Will AA even be the GM come November?

Edited October 21, 2015 by Boges

[Guest]

They will lose Price, but there are several blue chips available. Maybe AA can buy a new ace. I expect Estrada can be kept, but at a massive increase over his current $3.9M

[Boges]

How about that? Estrada pitches a gem and Tulo hits a clutch 3-run double.

The odds are stacked against them but they have favourable starting pitching matchups for game 6 and 7.

Let's see if Price can finally get this monkey off his back.

[Boges]

At this point, depending how Price does tomorrow, is Estrada not the pitcher you want to go get back instead of Price who'll demand a 7 year contract? Estrada gets you comparable results (if not better) for much cheaper.

[overthere]

At this point, depending how Price does tomorrow, is Estrada not the pitcher you want to go get back instead of Price who'll demand a 7 year contract? Estrada gets you comparable results (if not better) for much cheaper.

The Jays urgently need and want both of them. Price will be in the $175 million range for 7 years, perhaps higher. He wants to play in Socal, and there are 3 contending teams in California now. If the Jays want a pitcher of that quality, that is the cost- at least. But look what is coming for them in terms of contracts soon, with some very big raises expected Donaldson, Bautista, EE, Estrada,Revere, Pillar, Cecil , Goins etc.

The jays have a bunch of big decisions ahead- and not all those people will still be here next year or the one after.

They also have Saunders that isn't needed because of Revere. With one year left, I doubt a lot of teams will be looking to give a lot for Joey Bats. Tulo could be traded, but for what?

Which is a better prospect as a backup or starter in the outfield: Saunders or Pompey? If you trade Bautista for pitching, you'll want both of them. Bautista is very tradeable now, he is still producing and is still much more than just a hitter.. He can easily get 3 years at $15M per.

Tulo? What can any excellent player be traded for? The answer is 'other good players and specifically pitching'. He is one of the ebst potion players in the game, a potent hitter and has a long term contract commensurate with his status. He is defintiely tradeable!

The Cecil injury did not 'kill Torontos chances'. He would have been of no help in any of these games, he pitches one inning. He does a great job this year, but the weaknesses in both starting and bullpen are far more than one short innings guy.

They surprised me yesterday, I thought they were done. Now they have to win two games, which is easier than three. And their starting pitching is as good as they could hope for with Price and Stroman. They may not win in KC, but had the good sense to leave the home crowd happy in 2015 with a big win at Rogers stadium.

Go Jays

[Boges]

Cecil would have certainly helped them in game 2. You have to believe that Gibby hoped Price could make it through that inning so he could throw Sanchez out in the 8th. Cecil was their traditional 7th inning guy. You better believe tomorrow past the 6 inning Price will have a very short leash.

AA was on the Jeff Blair on the Fan 590 this morning and said he'll focus pretty much only on his rotation this offseason.

We still don't know what's going to happen with AA though. We have no idea what the new president will want to do with the team come November.

Tulo is often injured and has a lot of money owed. It's nice to say that trading him and Joey Bats will fix our dearth of good pitching but we don't know what we can get.

Chris Davis is a FA. I wonder if he's interesting in coming here?

[overthere]

Why on earth would we need another middle of the order power hitter like Davis?. The only thing he would bring is a left side hitter.

Tulo is a superb fielder, bats close to .300 with power, runs well and has been an allstar 5 out of the last sixc years. I'm not sure you get better than that. His $20m contract is not expensive and goes for a few years, both are desireable. The only reason Colorado dumped him is that that cannot afford him longterm, Reyes made the same money but for less term.

Yes, I know Cecil si their seventh ining guy. There is no reason to believe that they would have put another lefty in after 6+ innings of lefty. By the time Gibby awoke from his slumber on the bench the damage was done. Gibbons was watching the pitch count and hoping Price would get a win finally, not paying attention to what KC has done so many times before. I agree Price will be on a short leash - from the opening pitch. The problem is the same one that happily did not materilaize with Estrada: what to do if he fails early in this elimination game? The answer is going to be : Stroman. Game 7 is a probklem for another day, one that Gibbons and the Jays would take.

Meanwhile, the Mets are resting their excellent pitching and setting up their rotation as they wish.

[Boges]

Meanwhile, the Mets are resting their excellent pitching and setting up their rotation as they wish.

I don't know the stats all-time but I'm unsure if resting for a long period of time and playing the limit makes a huge difference. The WS starts Tuesday, Game 7 is Saturday. That's 2 full days of rest at least.

I remember a Detroit team recently that had a huge rest then got shelled in the next round.

You keep talking up Tulo, then why get rid of him? I guess if someone will give the Jays a top-end starter that's controllable for him. SURE WHY NOT!?

Edited October 22, 2015 by Boges

[overthere]

Yes exactly. Good pitchers are expensive, either by trade of free agency.. You have to give somehting to get one via tarde. Tulo is really good, and is locked down for five more years. Anybody that needs hitting and a great fielder will want him. There are only 3 ways for the Jays to get better pitching. Prospects, trades and free agents.

Of course AA is looking at all three. The Jays have nobody left on the farm as prospects. They cannot afford to solely buy a new staff, they'lll have to trade too and he is a prime candidate . We also have people able to step into his shoes on the field- Goins.,

[overthere]

Lots of rest may not be beneficial, but setting up your rotation so your best pitch the most is a luxury reserved only for teams that wrap up their LCS early.early.

[overthere]

The Royals will pull out all the stops in this game, and treat it like an elimination game.

Expect to see lots of small ball and attempts at run creation.

Expect to see their mighty bullpen activated as early as the 5th inning, and their one inning players going two innings.

They do not want a Game 7, period.

Will the Jays bring in Stroman if Price falters?

I think they will.

Game 7 is something to worry about, but only f you get there.

[bush_cheney2004]

Great game....don't see how a Game 7 could have been any more competitive. Came down to relief pitching and base running, including those two stolen bags by Pompey. I expected Revere to be bunting, something he does well (Twins/Phillies), not swinging away like that. If he bunts early, then the questionable 3-1 called strike doesn't matter.

Congrats to the Blue Jays on an excellent season.

[overthere]

Great game....don't see how a Game 7 could have been any more competitive. Came down to relief pitching and base running, including those two stolen bags by Pompey. I expected Revere to be bunting, something he does well (Twins/Phillies), not swinging away like that. If he bunts early, then the questionable 3-1 called strike doesn't matter.

Congrats to the Blue Jays on an excellent season.

It was not very well played IMO, not by the Jays. More accurately, poorly managed.

The 8/9 innings were an example of how not to manage a close playoff game. The Royals scored from first base on a single by being bold, and the Jays were every fortunate that Osuna did not get completely crushed in that situation.

Meanwhile, we get runners first and third, nobody out with a blazing fast runner on third and...... Gibbons sits on his hands and watches the season dribble away. You just absolutely have to score a run in that situation, and better managed teams do just that. Or.... shorten up your swing and get a ball on the gropund, give Pompey a chance to score. Even if Navarro fails and the out is made at home, Pillar would be third with one out. Next up, Revere is swinging for the fences to strike out- and opposing pitchers get him out every time with a dirt ball.

They missed several chances earlier, the worst being when Goins took a first strike, then could not get a bunt down with nobody out and runners on rst and second. Revere flies out, which would have scored a run then too if Goins had advanced the runners.

But in the end there is no doubt the better team won.

Congrats to the Jays for a great season, maybe next year.

And after that game and that season, did somebody say Bautista was not valuable as trade material?